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Date:      Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:57:44 -0500
From:      Mike L <jackoroses@gmail.com>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: 8.0 installation doesn't contain X distributions
Message-ID:  <1d001f850912100557n7cd73b64g61e130e0148bb434@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4B20F60B.7090701@otenet.gr>
References:  <20091206102227.7C3BA10656F0@hub.freebsd.org> <20091210185602.T12012@sola.nimnet.asn.au> <20091210101812.63806e1c.freebsd@edvax.de> <4B20F60B.7090701@otenet.gr>

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all I gotta say is I just spent 3 days compiling gnome2 for fbsd..
It shouldn't take that long or be that hard/complicated.
Most of it was stupid crap that I would of thought should of been taken care
of by now.
Applications complaining about which version of python is installed,
complaining about needing newer versions of this or that and stopping the
process. Than off to find the proper port to install (and having to use
FORCE PKG REGISTER) to appease the original install. Back to the gnome
install let it run again until the next application configuration screen.
You can't just do a make config in the meta port for the entire process..
That would be too easy..

Last time I did a Xorg installed I just ended up doing a pkg_add because I
grew tired of the problems I kept having with ports griping about this and
that being outdated or whatever. This time I wanted to see the process
through and figure I might learn a thing or two.
I digress though...
My intention with fbsd wasn't for a desktop though; but why install linux to
get a feel for X(org) when we can do it on fbsd? Yet why should it feel like
I'm a circus poodle trying to make it work?


On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Manolis Kiagias <sonicy@otenet.gr> wrote:

> Polytropon wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:47:08 +1100 (EST), Ian Smith <
> smithi@nimnet.asn.au> wrote:
> >
> >> In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 287, Issue 16, Message: 8
> >> On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:39:08 +0200 Manolis Kiagias <sonicy@otenet.gr>
> wrote:
> >>  > Removing X from the distributions is a right step IMO, these are just
> >>  > 3rd party packages and it seems confusing if they get installed along
> >>  > with the base system.
> >>
> >> I think this is taking base-system-only installation purity to excess.
> >>
> >
> > Imagine the following situation: A user wants to run Linux
> > applications on FreeBSD. He selects the Linux ABI service
> > for startup via sysinstall. The corresponding _enable setting
> > will be added to rc.conf, and - surprise! - a package will
> > be installed.
> >
> > The same thing happens when a user installs X. Of course, X
> > is not part of the base system, but in the same way that
> > sysinstall (down)loads and installs packages when a specific
> > service is selected, it should act the same way for X.
> > I know that X has become a problematic and very complex
> > thing, not just a few packages (as it was in the past
> > with XFree86).
> >
> > X should be installabe in a manner made easy, just like
> > the Linux ABI.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> In the case of X,
> >> you and I, developers and most people here know to hunt for the Xorg
> >> meta-port.
> >>
> >
> > The average user intending to run a desktop system won't
> > be happy with compiling stuff...
> >
> >
>
> Exactly. Most desktop users want a working system in the minimum of time
> (Can't blame them for that).
> Even with packages, we cannot beat an image-based distro, esp. since it
> will also provide all essential default settings.
>
> >
> >
> >> But the naive or new installer knows of no such thing, and
> >> could beat around in the huge lists of X software for ages, wondering
> >> what's required and what's not to get a desktop going.
> >>
> >
> > Therefore, I always liked the choice for X in sysinstall: It
> > basically installed all the components to get X up and running.
> > No big trouble getting the correct xorg-driver-* packages,
> > installing and removing them, the xorg-input-* packages with
> > the same story...
> >
> >
> >
> There is an X.org meta-package that installs everything though. It is
> just a problem with the beginner not knowing what to select. This can be
> tackled in two ways IMO, first is by creating a "First time FreeBSD
> desktop installer" type article, second would be adding a menu choice in
> sysinstall "Install a standard X desktop {GNOME,KDE}". I must admit I
> much prefer the first solution.
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