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Date:      Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:43:01 -0500
From:      gore <koggybsd@comcast.net>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Horrible installer
Message-ID:  <201201202243.01861.koggybsd@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <4F19279F.6060303@a1poweruser.com>
References:  <BLU160-W54C133B8003EF140C41EF7AE860@phx.gbl> <4F180C83.9090100@my.gd> <4F19279F.6060303@a1poweruser.com>

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I've been sort of keeping track of this particular thread, because it 
interested me, and after reading through, I'd like to share my personal 
opinions.

Now, before I go any further, let me just state here and now; This is my 
personal opinion, so, please, don't take this in a bad way, or in the 
wrong way; I'm a incredibly loyal FreeBSD and PC-BSD user, and have 
loved FreeBSD since 4.0 when I first got to use it.

Now, with that said, here's what I think:

FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was a big deal, IS a big deal to ME personally, 
because, well, I LOVE FreeBSD. Basically, I've tried out NetBSD ONCE, 
and I didn't think it was anything special to warrent me using it 
instead of FreeBSD. If I ever need to use an OS on my toaster, I'll 
download a newer release; until then, I'll stick with FreeBSD and 
PC-BSD 9And let be honest here, lol, PC-BSD is FreeBSD with a pretty 
paint job, and some very VERY nice custom Applications to make 
installation, software management, and so on, easier to do. Basically 
it's FreeBSD but made specifically for the Desktop user).

OpenBSD.... I just don't care. That guy Theo rubbed me the wrong way a 
long time ago, when I saw him reply to a FreeBSD security advisory, 
insulting one of the FreeBSD security team members and basically saying 
they didn't know what they were talking about and that they ere full of 
it, and so on. I thought that was incredibly rude, and insulting. The 
FreeBSD Security Team member replied with nothing more than the OpenBSD 
Security notification in question, proving to Theo that yes, he was in 
fact not lying, and it was infact from his OWN OS!

I couldn't Believe ow mean Theo was; He said that basically no such 
advisory existed. When they replied with the advisory, he didn't even 
respond. My guess is, it's hard to type while trying to swallow your 
pride AND fit your tail between your legs at the same time.

I also don't think much, or care, about taking BSD, shutting everything 
off, and calling it the most secure thing ever. (Yes, I'm over 
simplifying that, I know they've done a lot of work, but really, who 
doesn't do code audits now? And yea, I'm trying to make that have a 
little humour to it as well).

Anyway, FreeBSD 9.0, I saw the Email from FreeBSD-Announce, and I got 
really excited. I'd been waiting for a LONG time for RELEASE come out. 
I was VERY freaking tempted to grab the RC3, but no, I waited. Somehow 
lol. But as soon as I saw it was released, and FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was 
now available, I jumped on Opera, and grabbed it. I burned it, and had 
it installed within an hour of reading the email that it was out.

I will admit; I'm totally biased towards FreeBSD, as it's one of my 
favorite OSs period. I also LOVE how awesome the Core Team are; Grey 
Lehey wrote "The Complete FreeBSD" which, I got with the "BSD PowerPak" 
I bought which had 4.0 + 6CD Toolkit, and I still read that third 
edition to this day! It's great!

I also bought the newer 4th Edition when it came out. (Having Marshal 
Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal 
heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost 
speechless.... I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of 
Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how 
nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest 
people I've have the pleasure of talking to). 

Anyway, back on topic; FreeBSD 9.0's new installer "bsdinstall" is FINE! 
I KNOW it isn't perfect, OK? I got that. But how many of you HONESTLY 
would rather keep using sysinstall? Seriously? If you answered yes, 
then why not just download 8.2 or before?It's got sysinstall as the 
installer, and you can be happy with it. 

I don't understand why so much of this is such a big issue, but, I'm 
only a co-sys admin of my home Network, with my Wife as the other BOFH 
(I'm the Bastard Operator, She's the Bitch :)) (by the way, no, I don't 
call woman that in that manner, it's rude, but we both love BOFH so it 
was an inside joke we enjoy). So I can't speak for those of you on here 
that are actually running huge data centers, or corporate stuff, so 
please understand, I'm not trying to say you don't have an actual 
issue. You guys are on a WAY higher level than I am. I'm a little guy 
compared to a lot of you. 

That's why I said I was only giving my opinion, and meant no harm by it, 
but again, why not just use 8.x or something? I'm not being sarcastic 
or anything either, I really am asking why not jut go to 8.2 which I 
also Loved?

I personally like the way the new installer works. I DO think it would 
be nice if the Partition section was more like sysinstall, where you 
could simply hit "a" and it would give you  a payout of partitions for 
the system to use, because I did like that, and now it does just / and 
Swap and boot by default, but the point is, that's not a huge deal 
really.

I try to use BSD on everything I can really. It's probably the most 
stable OS out there. In fact, the ONLY stuff I'm not running BSD on, 
are, well, there's the newest Computer I own, which my Mom got for me 
for Christmas in 2009, which came preinstalled with Windows 7, and I 
Partitioned the drive in half so Slackware ran on one, and Windows 7 on 
the other. I needed one Windows box at least for a few games, and, of 
course, stupid school stuff where they force you to use some windows 
crap. The other machine I don't use BSD on, is my FTP Server, which is 
running Slackware 12.0. I thought about upgrading it, but really, it 
works just fine for my needs, and it's fully patched, and so there is 
no need really. When I do upgrade my Server though, I'm probably gonna 
be installing FreeBSD on it. FreeBSD, Slackware, and Debian are my 
first thoughts when I think of setting up an FTP Server, so that's just 
me.

Anyway, I don't want you to have to read a whole book of text here, but 
I personally am wnjoying FreeBSD9.0-RELEASE. I like it, and I'm using 
it on on of my Desktops, and my Laptop, as my other machine I use a 
lot, is running PC-BSD. (9.0 of that just came out too which I grabbed 
as soon as I saw it was out).

Anyway, again, this was just my opinion, so please don't think I'm 
making any assumptions about the situations, systems, or tasks that the 
rest of you have to do; I am not even TRYING to pretend I know what 
you're dealing with, I'm not a jerk like that heh.

Basically, I just wanted to point out that there's people like me, who 
not only love FreeBSD 9.0-REEASE, but, also, didn't have any real 
issues with the installer. As I said; I know it isn't perfect, and it 
does need some work I think, but you have to rmember; This is a NEW 
installer; There wasn't a version of FreeBSD before this that used it, 
so, now that everyone has been talking about their issues with it, I'm 
pretty darn sure that the people who write the thing are keeping track, 
and will fix it.

I mean seriously guys; Does anyone here think that the FreeBSD team 
won't try and fix it up so that we all like it? I know deep down, after 
meeting the members of the core team I've met, that they do care quite 
a bit about us; The Users, of FreeBSD. With that said, I think one 
thing that should be done, is to make a list of any issues any of you 
had with the installer. Make this PRODUCTIVE by making a list of some 
type, of what the issues REALLY are, and make them known. Then, the 
people who are in charge of bsdinstall, can look them over, and, 
actually make change. 

Anyway, sorry about the length again, but I just wanted to say 
something, and ended up saying a lot... Lol, I'm longer winded than 
Hurricane Katrina apparently ;) LOL :)

-Allen


-- 
BSD user



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