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Date:      Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:41:01 -0800
From:      "Michael C. Shultz" <ringworm01@gmail.com>
To:        "vizion" <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com>
Cc:        'Peter Jeremy' <PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au>, 'Doug Barton' <dougb@freebsd.org>, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic
Message-ID:  <200512091141.02555.ringworm01@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth>
References:  <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth>

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On Friday 09 December 2005 11:31, vizion wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael C. Shultz [mailto:ringworm01@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:32 AM
> > To: vizion
> > Cc: 'Peter Jeremy'; 'Doug Barton'
> > Subject: Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic
> >
> > On Friday 09 December 2005 09:39, vizion wrote:
> > > > Vison, you are much better at writting florid prose on how and why
> > > > FreeBSD is
> > > > such an awful OS run by a team of Techies who care nothing about end
> > > > users needs than you are at reading and comprehending simple
> > > > instructions.
> > > >
> > > >  What you write is almost believable, your writing skill is very good
> >
> > and
> >
> > > > convincing, only in this particualr case I know you are completely
> >
> > wrong
> >
> > > > and
> > > > your failure to follow the simplest advice is why your machine is now
> >
> > non
> >
> > > > operational.  Quit crying about non relevent issues and concentrate
> > > > on solving your real problem - getting that darn machine to boot up.
> > > >
> > > > One last thought, name one OS that has better documentation than
> >
> > FreeBSD
> >
> > > > please, comercial or otherwise.  Maybe there is such a beast, if so I
> >
> > am
> >
> > > > very
> > > > curious to know what it is called.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Rather than replying to the list I am emailing you direct and cc onl;y
> >
> > the
> >
> > > individuals to whom you cc'd your original.
> > >
> > > Frankly I never ceased to be amazed at diversionary personalized
> > > attacks that seem to be a regular occurrence on freebsd lists whenever
> > > someone makes friendly but critical observations about freebsd.  There
> > > is a touchyness there which is a big deterrent to the engagement of
> > > others
> >
> > and a
> >
> > > tendency to paternalize which, on rare occasions, is an unspeakably
> > > ugly aspect of some freebsd interactions.
> > >
> > > I do not know the root cause of such over-defensiveness I am constantly
> > > amazed when old timers do not recognize it. It is time to grow up and I
> > > hope something will happen to discourage people from arguing ad
> >
> > personam.
> >
> > > Your remarks seem to have been written with the deliberate intention of
> > > attacking the messenger rather than discussing the message. You did not
> > > even aspire to achieving accuracy.
> > >
> > > The fact the my system did upgrade successfully from 5.3 to 5.4 by
> > > following your advice does not give you the right to make false
> >
> > assumptions
> >
> > > about a failed upgrade from 5.4 to 6.0 that is due to a combination of
> > > events that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic under
> >
> > discussion,
> >
> > > advice that has been given or even freebsd or its documentation. It
> >
> > turns
> >
> > > out that a motherboard hardware failure was the casue of the upgrade
> > > failure.. hence I have to do a total rebuild because the motherboard is
> >
> > no
> >
> > > longer available.
> >
> > And this is your excuse for attacking the FreeBSD organization?
>
> No  and I have nott attacked "the organization".  The c ritic of the way in
> which documentation is  not integrated ionto the freebsd development cycle
> was made long before there was any motherboard failure.  I do wish you
> would stick to the facts.
>
>
>
> I'm sure
>
> > everyone feels bad for you that you have to get a new motherboard.   I am
> > confused as to how better coordination between developers and technical
> > writers could have prevented it from failing though.
>
> I have not made that suggestion - only you have put forward that notion --
> come on laugh a bit - you are really being a bit wild and cranky over this
> <chuckles>. The motherboard failure occurred after the discussion on
> documentation not before <GRINZ> you really are missing the point here.
>
> > > As for the use of  perjorative terminology (florid prose) and false
> > > accusations - I am really personally very disappointed in your
> >
> > reactions.
> >
> > > What you seemed to be saying was that you were unable to counter my
> > > suggestions which were so unwelcome to you that you chose to attack me
> > > personally.
> >
> > Your suggestions were irrelevent to the problem at hand.
>
> My suggestions are very relevant to the documentary errors, omissions and
> lack of documentary integration that waste much of the time of many end
> users.
>
>
> My suggestions were, it is true, were off the original topic and came about
> as a response to someone else who complained about freebsd documentation
> and I responded to him.
>
> He was strongly critical because the  documentation stated that direct
> upgrade from 5.3 to 6.00 was possible when, as you pointed out, it was not.

I never said this, must have been someone else.

>
> I suggest you reread the whole thread with care and look at the sequence of
> events instead of massaging a false interpretation events to satisfy a
> desire to argue add personam..
>
> > tecnical
> > help that is one thing, if you want to improve documentaion that is
> > another
> > topic with it's own mail list.
>
> I see this as more diversionary BS you could have said:
> "Hey david -- sorry I should not have jumped to conclusions"
>
> > > I am disappointed that you react that way to me and even more concerned
> > > that those who have been around far less years than I will be
> >
> > intimidated
> >
> > > by this kind of BS
> > >
> > > Please grow up
> > >
> > > david
> >
> > One last point, either remove me from the reply to list or place the
> > maillist
> > back on it, thank you.
>
> I think you owe me an apology - but I doubt I will get it.

Your correct, you won't.

-Mike


>
>
> OK I will send this to the list
>



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