From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 9 19:41:22 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E1C16A41F for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 19:41:22 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ringworm01@gmail.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.207]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE65643D5D for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2005 19:41:06 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from ringworm01@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 8so963185nzo for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:41:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; b=bhEA5fot6Ws80EGtSsQqwLdejRByJKDgNNK9fE3xINLX5oky/cowItS6qhSawt4nJ681CwHEbXkbxa/zWeHcx19MYNELCjVH/Mz1mdq4J71hosDYGfXqaJvszoLWk1+ZdSPMEkD5cgsvi2fz8lQyx+ASLYxfCex1R5Vq3DIS7dU= Received: by 10.36.178.6 with SMTP id a6mr3803246nzf; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ringworm.mechee.com ( [71.102.14.129]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 24sm2117249nzn.2005.12.09.11.41.04; Fri, 09 Dec 2005 11:41:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Michael C. Shultz" To: "vizion" Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:41:01 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 References: <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth> In-Reply-To: <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200512091141.02555.ringworm01@gmail.com> Cc: 'Peter Jeremy' , 'Doug Barton' , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:41:22 -0000 On Friday 09 December 2005 11:31, vizion wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael C. Shultz [mailto:ringworm01@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:32 AM > > To: vizion > > Cc: 'Peter Jeremy'; 'Doug Barton' > > Subject: Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic > > > > On Friday 09 December 2005 09:39, vizion wrote: > > > > Vison, you are much better at writting florid prose on how and why > > > > FreeBSD is > > > > such an awful OS run by a team of Techies who care nothing about end > > > > users needs than you are at reading and comprehending simple > > > > instructions. > > > > > > > > What you write is almost believable, your writing skill is very good > > > > and > > > > > > convincing, only in this particualr case I know you are completely > > > > wrong > > > > > > and > > > > your failure to follow the simplest advice is why your machine is now > > > > non > > > > > > operational. Quit crying about non relevent issues and concentrate > > > > on solving your real problem - getting that darn machine to boot up. > > > > > > > > One last thought, name one OS that has better documentation than > > > > FreeBSD > > > > > > please, comercial or otherwise. Maybe there is such a beast, if so I > > > > am > > > > > > very > > > > curious to know what it is called. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Rather than replying to the list I am emailing you direct and cc onl;y > > > > the > > > > > individuals to whom you cc'd your original. > > > > > > Frankly I never ceased to be amazed at diversionary personalized > > > attacks that seem to be a regular occurrence on freebsd lists whenever > > > someone makes friendly but critical observations about freebsd. There > > > is a touchyness there which is a big deterrent to the engagement of > > > others > > > > and a > > > > > tendency to paternalize which, on rare occasions, is an unspeakably > > > ugly aspect of some freebsd interactions. > > > > > > I do not know the root cause of such over-defensiveness I am constantly > > > amazed when old timers do not recognize it. It is time to grow up and I > > > hope something will happen to discourage people from arguing ad > > > > personam. > > > > > Your remarks seem to have been written with the deliberate intention of > > > attacking the messenger rather than discussing the message. You did not > > > even aspire to achieving accuracy. > > > > > > The fact the my system did upgrade successfully from 5.3 to 5.4 by > > > following your advice does not give you the right to make false > > > > assumptions > > > > > about a failed upgrade from 5.4 to 6.0 that is due to a combination of > > > events that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic under > > > > discussion, > > > > > advice that has been given or even freebsd or its documentation. It > > > > turns > > > > > out that a motherboard hardware failure was the casue of the upgrade > > > failure.. hence I have to do a total rebuild because the motherboard is > > > > no > > > > > longer available. > > > > And this is your excuse for attacking the FreeBSD organization? > > No and I have nott attacked "the organization". The c ritic of the way in > which documentation is not integrated ionto the freebsd development cycle > was made long before there was any motherboard failure. I do wish you > would stick to the facts. > > > > I'm sure > > > everyone feels bad for you that you have to get a new motherboard. I am > > confused as to how better coordination between developers and technical > > writers could have prevented it from failing though. > > I have not made that suggestion - only you have put forward that notion -- > come on laugh a bit - you are really being a bit wild and cranky over this > . The motherboard failure occurred after the discussion on > documentation not before you really are missing the point here. > > > > As for the use of perjorative terminology (florid prose) and false > > > accusations - I am really personally very disappointed in your > > > > reactions. > > > > > What you seemed to be saying was that you were unable to counter my > > > suggestions which were so unwelcome to you that you chose to attack me > > > personally. > > > > Your suggestions were irrelevent to the problem at hand. > > My suggestions are very relevant to the documentary errors, omissions and > lack of documentary integration that waste much of the time of many end > users. > > > My suggestions were, it is true, were off the original topic and came about > as a response to someone else who complained about freebsd documentation > and I responded to him. > > He was strongly critical because the documentation stated that direct > upgrade from 5.3 to 6.00 was possible when, as you pointed out, it was not. I never said this, must have been someone else. > > I suggest you reread the whole thread with care and look at the sequence of > events instead of massaging a false interpretation events to satisfy a > desire to argue add personam.. > > > tecnical > > help that is one thing, if you want to improve documentaion that is > > another > > topic with it's own mail list. > > I see this as more diversionary BS you could have said: > "Hey david -- sorry I should not have jumped to conclusions" > > > > I am disappointed that you react that way to me and even more concerned > > > that those who have been around far less years than I will be > > > > intimidated > > > > > by this kind of BS > > > > > > Please grow up > > > > > > david > > > > One last point, either remove me from the reply to list or place the > > maillist > > back on it, thank you. > > I think you owe me an apology - but I doubt I will get it. Your correct, you won't. -Mike > > > OK I will send this to the list >