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Date:      Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:20:50 -0500
From:      "Jason" <jsmethers@pdq.net>
To:        "Adam" <bsdx@looksharp.net>, <chat@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: The joys of Windows
Message-ID:  <005001bff0ed$497234c0$9ccf1f40@pdq.net>
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007181312300.25933-100000@turtle.looksharp.net>

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>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Tim Ryder wrote:
>>All this talk about bsd and linux being better than
>>windows is bullshit.  I have windows 2000 and when I
>>do anything on FreeBSD or Linux, it is always slower
>>then when I do it on windows and now with win 2000
>>out, windows even has better memory management.
>
>Got Benchmarks ?  I thought so.
>By the way, my FreeBSD machine does not consume over 64 megs of memory
>upon bootup.  Do you have some tips for us on how to make win 2000 not do
>so?

You missed the point. His application was as a workstation, not a server.
FreeBSD will of course not consume so much memory on boot, but once X is
running, it comes pretty close to 64 megs in use. FreeBSD will kick some ass
both in CPU and memory usage and management, but to anyone legally running
windows 2000, it is going to be a drop in the bucket to get 128 or 256 megs
of ram instead of 64.

Have you ever tried doing something graphics intensive on FreeBSD with
XFree86 2D or 3D? You can't. Simply put, the video drivers still suck, even
with the new XFree86 architecture, especially compared to commercial windows
drivers. This is a place where perception is the ultimate benchmark. Linux
is much better off in this case with some video card manufactures creating
video driver kernel modules for X and Linux though the core isn't open
source.

What about sound? Linux is making progress here with both a wide range of
drivers for sound cards that have some minimal PCM functionality, but also
with the groups currently working on a standard 3D audio stream API. FreeBSD
simply isn't. I guess no one using FreeBSD is really interested in having
support for more then PCM and a few well versed sound cards using it.

I'd say the lack of SCSI drivers are a problem too, but windows doesn't
always do much better in this case either.

There is of course a lack of application software, but this is slowly
changing with some KDE and GNOME apps.

>>I like linux and freebsd, but I also know that right
>>now for the desktop and home use, windows 2000 is by
>>far the better option. I really hope that BSD or Linux
>>someday is better than windows and then I will use
>>them for everything, but until then you just cant beat
>>windows.
>
>I can.
>1:02PM  up 63 days, 13:46, 9 users, load averages: 1.31, 1.25, 1.31
>1:04PM  up 196 days, 14:28, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.05, 0.00

The main importance of this is in a server roll, but as a workstation, there
is usually a much lower consequence of such as long as the machine can stay
up between times of inactivity, times which a server can not guarantee, and
does not out right crash. I may be lucky, but I have yet to see windows 2000
crash except with known buggy hardware - TNT2 AGP interacting with the buggy
chipset on a Asus P5A. So no, for this application, you haven't. You've only
presented three good reasons to use FreeBSD instead, though I've also
presented three much better reasons not to, at least one of which will
likely be the ultimate determining factor in what which someone uses.
Depending on how you look at it, things have a long way and a short way to
go before windows can be replaced.

You're proving a different application then the desired - servers.

As usual, it still comes down to what hardware you have or can get, and what
you want to do with it. Everything has its flaws and that fact may never
change. It pays not to take up a blind loyalty if one at all. It will only
cause you to lose your objectivity.

- Jason




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