From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 18 12:18:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.iadfw.net (mail2.iadfw.net [206.66.12.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 172B237B9F5 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:18:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsmethers@pdq.net) Received: from jason from [64.31.207.156] by mail2.iadfw.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.11) with smtp for sender: id ; Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:18:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <005001bff0ed$497234c0$9ccf1f40@pdq.net> From: "Jason" To: "Adam" , References: Subject: Re: The joys of Windows Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:20:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Tim Ryder wrote: >>All this talk about bsd and linux being better than >>windows is bullshit. I have windows 2000 and when I >>do anything on FreeBSD or Linux, it is always slower >>then when I do it on windows and now with win 2000 >>out, windows even has better memory management. > >Got Benchmarks ? I thought so. >By the way, my FreeBSD machine does not consume over 64 megs of memory >upon bootup. Do you have some tips for us on how to make win 2000 not do >so? You missed the point. His application was as a workstation, not a server. FreeBSD will of course not consume so much memory on boot, but once X is running, it comes pretty close to 64 megs in use. FreeBSD will kick some ass both in CPU and memory usage and management, but to anyone legally running windows 2000, it is going to be a drop in the bucket to get 128 or 256 megs of ram instead of 64. Have you ever tried doing something graphics intensive on FreeBSD with XFree86 2D or 3D? You can't. Simply put, the video drivers still suck, even with the new XFree86 architecture, especially compared to commercial windows drivers. This is a place where perception is the ultimate benchmark. Linux is much better off in this case with some video card manufactures creating video driver kernel modules for X and Linux though the core isn't open source. What about sound? Linux is making progress here with both a wide range of drivers for sound cards that have some minimal PCM functionality, but also with the groups currently working on a standard 3D audio stream API. FreeBSD simply isn't. I guess no one using FreeBSD is really interested in having support for more then PCM and a few well versed sound cards using it. I'd say the lack of SCSI drivers are a problem too, but windows doesn't always do much better in this case either. There is of course a lack of application software, but this is slowly changing with some KDE and GNOME apps. >>I like linux and freebsd, but I also know that right >>now for the desktop and home use, windows 2000 is by >>far the better option. I really hope that BSD or Linux >>someday is better than windows and then I will use >>them for everything, but until then you just cant beat >>windows. > >I can. >1:02PM up 63 days, 13:46, 9 users, load averages: 1.31, 1.25, 1.31 >1:04PM up 196 days, 14:28, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.05, 0.00 The main importance of this is in a server roll, but as a workstation, there is usually a much lower consequence of such as long as the machine can stay up between times of inactivity, times which a server can not guarantee, and does not out right crash. I may be lucky, but I have yet to see windows 2000 crash except with known buggy hardware - TNT2 AGP interacting with the buggy chipset on a Asus P5A. So no, for this application, you haven't. You've only presented three good reasons to use FreeBSD instead, though I've also presented three much better reasons not to, at least one of which will likely be the ultimate determining factor in what which someone uses. Depending on how you look at it, things have a long way and a short way to go before windows can be replaced. You're proving a different application then the desired - servers. As usual, it still comes down to what hardware you have or can get, and what you want to do with it. Everything has its flaws and that fact may never change. It pays not to take up a blind loyalty if one at all. It will only cause you to lose your objectivity. - Jason To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message