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[174.109.231.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm6731929qkk.31.2021.03.20.06.33.19 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 20 Mar 2021 06:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (zeus.seibercom.net [192.168.1.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F2hXt59Zcz1ybY for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 09:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 09:33:04 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Call to delay EOL of 11.x -> Re: OS to replace FreeBSD Message-ID: <20210320093304.00001e37@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: References: <5743CB5D-338C-4609-8E89-396440926CEC@videotron.ca> <20210319110001.00000bf8@seibercom.net> <4602cbad-bf26-18d1-83e6-cba9627787d8@johnea.net> <90FEC704-1764-43E7-BEFA-C9481CF14714@kreme.com> <20210320083808.00000cb1@seibercom.net> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/12d7pw2.i.gZ+tsbkt0Dnle"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4F2hXy1nv0z4VxN X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=Gy8OHGEM; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::732 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.11 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,meta]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.508]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[174.109.231.236:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::732:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.79)[-0.786]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::732:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::732:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:33:23 -0000 --Sig_/12d7pw2.i.gZ+tsbkt0Dnle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 13:45:13 +0100, Mohammad Noureldin stated: >Hi Jerry, > >On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 13:38 Jerry wrote: > >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:30:15 +0100, Mohammad Noureldin stated: =20 >> >Hi, >> > >> >On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 10:00 @lbutlr wrote: >> > =20 >> >> On 19 Mar 2021, at 10:10, freebsd@johnea.net wrote: =20 >> >> > To anyone who has read the bug report, this is clearly a >> >> > serious =20 >> >> regression issue on certain USB (probably 3) host controller >> >> hardware. >> >> >> >> I've read the bug report and all the replies and it is clearly a >> >> flaw in the controller. It is providing an invalid ID. >> >> =20 >> > >> >If that's the case, I am curious how other Unix-Like Operating >> >Systems manage to work on the same HW ? =20 >> >> There are a number of possibilities. >> >> 1) They have better programmers that can handle abnormalities. >> >> 2) They realize that there are always going to be flaws in software >> and hardware and are smart enough to work around it. >> >> This is of course assuming that the actual problem is a defective >> controller that every other OS can handle correctly. If, and this is >> assuming that is correct, then why doesn't FreeBSD just code what the >> defective controller is allegedly sending and accept it? >> >> The simple fact the the code worked in versions prior to 12.x makes >> this excuse that the controlled is defective highly suspect. >> =20 > >Hi Jerry, > >I do understand your frustrations, but if you allow me, it is not a >reason to attack the FreeBSD community and it's developers. Let's >please focus on facts and possible solutions. > >As stated in this thread (and another one), did you have time to try >any of the proposed tests ? > >Looking forward to your reply I CANNOT install it, so I am unsure of how to build a custom kernel. Then, assuming I could build a custom kernel, I would not be able to use the "freebsd update" utility. So, to put it in the vernacular, "I am fucked if I do, and fucked if I don't". Not a great choice of options. I am investigating it though. I got some help from a friend on the Microsoft forum who told me he was almost positive I could install Windows 10 PRO, then Hyper V and run FreeBSD 12.x or 13.x from there. He is polling other users to see if they have had success with the same equipment I process. The one very apparent advantage is that I would be able to take advantage of Intel's Optane Memory and Storage. As far as I can tell, FreeBSD does not support that architecture. In computing, the robustness principle is a design guideline for software: Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others (often reworded as "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept"). The principle is also known as Postel's law, after Jon Postel, who wrote in an early specification of TCP: TCP implementations should follow a general principle of robustness: be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. In other words, programs that send messages to other machines (or to other programs on the same machine) should conform completely to the specifications, but programs that receive messages should accept non-conformant input as long as the meaning is clear. Among programmers, to produce compatible functions, the principle is also known in the form be contravariant in the input type and covariant in the output type. While this is not a TCP issue directly, the same general principal is still relevant. --=20 Jerry --Sig_/12d7pw2.i.gZ+tsbkt0Dnle Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEELeCiu2K+9VmEYYgTgHBP8gv9FXcFAmBV+ZYACgkQgHBP8gv9 FXfxWgv/SyKV2YqxHtPItbixLXrOmgTz2xvmsFxSzd6Sm8yjnl3pVKRdg2oNYSku ykCC+YyxfNjr5fAyZcrBRn0yQs9WTxHs6M7eWDHCo8Ja+BrSbcXiJpcs1ilKzgMk tNsMlLEDWMwpRlmwNTeWfeNi6b46OQ9mCa97piv5krOPg47tQIK3xglYX851/9gT hgkrU9H4e6JruBLusJRo3O5E3tNx31IcBmd/vhHaVZ03BJ7xmNO/IEyEGJ9uihgQ ZHEGH7Zd3d9uetyZY1VVNtCgqo503paz+ah0E9PKUVZGI+g6wyvEq1BRGSUKEM4z ohHc5uAeke5ulqP1ZzfXcDlIDd9ESn3cfEo0aZSQLDDdvz1fcYjY3WEu5y1mXQ/H viVkx400wJ+Os6rgpQ8rnZGnl6xXmtTaW2lLTsc03lwK2QKkNXozm6G+kW9SmpcQ IQwODuQE6EVV+V477RAuyHMgZFK8v2kSWbDrXIqOPH/4unTiMedWqIVCDZ8820CF MoNi8diJ =ODFm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/12d7pw2.i.gZ+tsbkt0Dnle--