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Date:      Tue, 19 Jul 2011 15:54:32 +0200
From:      Damien Fleuriot <ml@my.gd>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
Message-ID:  <4E258C98.8010109@my.gd>
In-Reply-To: <201107191157.p6JBvwf0032763@mail.r-bonomi.com>
References:  <201107191157.p6JBvwf0032763@mail.r-bonomi.com>

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On 7/19/11 1:57 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org  Tue Jul 19 05:54:52 2011
>> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:54:38 +0200
>> From: Damien Fleuriot <ml@my.gd>
>> To: "C. P. Ghost" <cpghost@cordula.ws>
>> Cc: Frank Bonnet <f.bonnet@esiee.fr>,
>>         "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
>> Subject: Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/19/11 11:06 AM, C. P. Ghost wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Damien Fleuriot <ml@my.gd> wrote:
>>>> On 19 Jul 2011, at 08:15, Frank Bonnet <f.bonnet@esiee.fr> wrote:
>>>>> In France it's illegal and I have my boss's instruction :
>>>>>
>>>>> - find and delete the files that's all.
>>>>
>>>> Bon courage then...
>>>>
>>>> A file can not be illegal per se, so you won't be able to detect
>>>> these by looking up names or contents.
>>>
>>>> Even then, if a file is labeled as personal, privacy protection
>>>> applies and it is *unlawful* for you to process it.
>>>
>>>> (That is in the same way that your employer is strictly forbidden
>>>> from peeking inside your email messages clearly labeled as personal,
>>>> even if they were received on your work mailbox.)
>>>
>>> Exactly!
>>>
>>> Speaking with my university sysadmin hat on: you're NOT allowed to
>>> peek inside personal files of your users, UNLESS the user has waived
>>> his/her rights to privacy by explicitly agreeing to the TOS and
>>> there's legal language in the TOS that allows staff to inspect files
>>> (and then staff needs to abide by those rules in a very strict and
>>> cautious manner). So unless the TOS are very explicit, a sysadmin or
>>> an IT head can get in deep trouble w.r.t. privacy laws.
>>>
>>
>> The poorly written IT TOS of a company can never bypass the law,
>> regardless of anything you agreed to in your company's TOS.
> 
> "male bovine excrement" applies.
> 
> For example, if it is part of the _terms_of_emplyment_ -- which one 
> *agreed* to, by going to work there --that you (the employeee) give
> permission for the company, or it's agents, to examine any file you
> store on the system.
> 
>> It *is* unlawful for them to even open your files as long as they are
>> clearly labeled as private.
> 
> Oh my.  making back-ups is unlawful.  Replacing a failed drive in a RAID
> array is unlawful.  Re-arranging storage allocation is unlawful.  *SNORT*
> 

You're playing dumb.
On purpose.
That's called trolling.
That's frowned upon, both by the community and by the list's charter.

Just because you sign a bit of paper doesn't make everything it contains
law.

I do not have to remind anyone of the number of cases where, for
example, ISPs got condemned for abusive terms in their contracts, and
said terms nullified.

A quick google search finds, again for the example, a case where Free.fr
got pinned for 32 such abusive terms:
http://www.clubic.com/forum/internet-general/free-32-clauses-abusives-selon-le-tgi-de-paris-id251470-page1.html


> Under the laws of _what_ jurisdiction?
> 

http://www.acbm-avocats.com/spip.php?article37

Files are considered to be work related UNLESS they're clearly
labeled/named as private.

In which case the employer may not open said files in the absence of the
employee.

Just because you do it doesn't make it legal.


>> To open them, they would require a judge's injunction, for example in
>> cases of pedo pornography or the like.
> 
> I guarantee you that _I_, as a system administrator, don't need a court
> order to do such things.  And, if you claim otherwise, you better be
> prepared to cite the statues that prohibit it.
> 

Again just because you do it doesn't make it legal.

Regarding statutes that prohibit it, see above, plus:

European Fondamental Rights:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_fr.pdf

Code du travail:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do;idArticle=LEGIARTI000006901852&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006072050&dateTexte=20080513


> This is a corporate environment, it is in the terms of employment that
> company computers are for "business use only", that anything on the
> machines is 'work done for hire', and thus property of the company.
> 

I hope we'll agree to disagree here.

Jurisprudence allows reasonable use of work computers, given that the
employee respects L120-4 of Code du Travail.

This one here clearly acknowledges an employee's right to a reasonable
personal use of his employer's internet connection:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000019166094&fastReqId=2101417007&fastPos=1


>>>> You may want to look for files that are unusually large.
>>>> They could possibly be ISOs, dvdrips, HD movie dumps...
>>>
>>> Not to forget encrypted RAR files (which btw. could contain anything,
>>> including legitimate content, so be careful here).
>>>
>>
>> It would be unlawful to try to brute force the files' password ;)
> 
> The last I knew (admittedly a number of years ago), encryption was illegal 
> in France, EXCEPT where the encryption key is on file with the Government. 
> Many multi-national corporations made sure to route their 'secure' traffic
> _around_ France for that specific reason.
> 
> Find an encrypted file, and demand that the user show that the key is
> on file with the gov't.   *EVIL*GRIN*
> 

You are not entitled to such a demand.

The same way I just can't barge in to your house and demand to see your
permit to build there.

The same way I just can't demand your driver's license unless I'm law
enforcement.

By the way, you're wrong again.
Encryption is perfectly legal in France up to a specific key length,
above which you are supposed to register it with the government.

Hey look, all your points were moot and easily rebuked.



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