From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 23 16:59:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD69E106568B for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:59:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f202.google.com (mail-pz0-f202.google.com [209.85.222.202]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC6D8FC0A for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:59:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk40 with SMTP id 40so5010028pzk.7 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:59:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+IosJosmlS14/YBIcT4C0Z8MKs0LgYOOhSQ4fShB/DE=; b=F9ikPCuxneA4OAuVV9IdDFGiCWTsvPrHSjUma8OaNM44Du1FPIgGsVNSnxe+LCeaK9 9LroJQobs90EJrM0XJPB9FrOhm5kzSOA9Bb1qpfOzTSygfzEtTYbnHGSwSOwImMH+k8h SVeU4281JUC91Y+hs8DB4mtgQXLG5LPhcS0ks= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=X99kcL8dmqpd+A+l9ZxEN2NiNEyUJngMnkGpvxIhNYxeVveB7cWtn7H3S3qxj91x1Z bJOt2eoeHBwb+7Pzv4BftXLQ0DL6gSJpEiq/ceuCmll9LfnvVJRv+ClPxWK8bD7iTupf C6R8lZ7HOzXOafjvoVXSSZinHQkNsjNam76b4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sektie@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.154.3 with SMTP id g3mr4203619wfo.143.1261587594869; Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:59:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <22166b750912230853m4a889656rbb6020f0eb133410@mail.gmail.com> References: <200912231548.nBNFmcn3064359@fire.js.berklix.net> <22166b750912230853m4a889656rbb6020f0eb133410@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:59:54 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2c71c90069c0f27c Message-ID: From: Randi Harper To: Tony Theodore Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: why BSDs got no love X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:59:55 -0000 On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Tony Theodore wrote: >>>> > Perhaps the way to go is a common table of target defaults eg >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg >>>> > Which could then be edited by all of >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end CLI =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (*) >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end curses GUI =A0 =A0(*) >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(*) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Maybe the= se 2 alternatives should be >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the f= irst question the installer asks ? >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Front end X11 GUI (for later after main install compl= ete >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0- Shu= dder, Not that I'd use it, but someone >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0w= ould probably want to write one). >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0vi - for editing, & writing back to new boot media, >>>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to auto install on multiple identical= new machines. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would sooner stab myself in the face. >>> >>> Not obvious at all which your personal revulsion applies to >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0CLI ? ncurses ? install.cfg ?, X11 ?, vi ? >> >> >> All of the above. The bug list for sysinstall is not small. Even if >> this wasn't the case, I'm not even going to work on introducing that >> many options and obfuscating the code that much more. The mere thought >> of the rewrite involved in adding that kind of support makes my head >> feel like the knife is already in place. > > The idea is that it "simplifies" the code by making it more modular. > All the final "sysinstall" has to do is execute the specifics of > install.cfg. It's just a text file, anything can modify it - of > course, in a standardised way. The suggestion is to develop front-ends > that can generate/modify such a file which the installer back-end will > execute. Think of it as functional programming for installers - define > the installations options in a declarative way, and let the installer > take care of the rest. > > Yes, trying to implement such a thing may drive you to stab yourself > in the face - you can do that with a toothpick, but the idea should > cause you to sharpen a different blade. No one is asking you to do it, > just think of some possibilities. > > >> The only support I've been *thinking* about adding is a simple CLI in >> addition to the existing libdialog (ncurses) install. This would still >> be a not insignificant modification, but there are issues that make >> using a libdialog based installer problematic on some displays. It's a >> fun idea to kick around, but it's not a priority. >> >> I don't even know what you mean by vi, but it sounds confusing and >> unnecessary. This is what install.cfg is for - so you can define the >> parameters of an installation beforehand. > > vi is an arcane, obscure text editor that is used by alpha/uber-geeks > to modify *.cfg files ;) No one in their right mind would suggest the > possibility of manually editing a text file, let alone the sysinstall > .cfg file. Who knows what configuration options would be possible? Yeah... I know what vi *is*. I don't see how it's relevant as an installation option. And by the way, you do edit the install.cfg file by hand. We don't have a handy tool to automagically create one of these as far as I know. You know what options are possible by looking at the sysinstall man page, looking at the example install.cfg file, or reading sysinstall.h. > > Having cli/X11/ncurses/text interfaces to install.cfg seems ideal to > me. The technical difficulty alone would in all likelihood ground it, > it doesn't need to be shot down. I'm shooting it down as in "I am not doing this" because I'm currently the person working on sysinstall. ;) -- randi