Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:18:46 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein <alfred@freebsd.org> To: Big Lebowski <spankthespam@gmail.com>, Jim Ohlstein <jim@ohlste.in> Cc: Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com>, freebsd-ports <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays? Message-ID: <52E55186.7020009@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <CAHcXP%2Bfk2T1%2BoYW45BjcimujedJJ2uE%2BS-FutGbyam2i3QRnog@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAHcXP%2Bf6e-t--XbQPTH1goJp_CL7P=zTj5trZVWd4YZ_EsO9gw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaX=t3e5SXoBDHnzAbx=SWbEFMJHNPQL13FnwNgKWM3gCiA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHcXP%2Bew5qt5hc9Y%2BR_njPkfhUMsDDAqNk9aYSacV4PwBmqjfw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaXnXwo4JxnRdffZfdvfETfhgJNkFM-N23H1SOT0G3-oMwA@mail.gmail.com> <CAE-m3X2dQTTsbrTJg2iPT3qkfq7h9U8oGbRZXGAXH%2BJ2T4MFNw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHcXP%2BdtHPHT%2BFD8RdcqhGANBPf1Gk4N4coEpZY-eAuQE3iZtg@mail.gmail.com> <CAE-m3X2rWk-0k_yH1PK0iN_5YhvSh1UsV0VCrroJq==687X1ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <52E43A80.4030501@rawbw.com> <CAGBxaXnfb2yPZZCaf6mYzASzT13b68A8iPT6eUwUdU9W1ya_Qg@mail.gmail.com> <52E44BC1.7040404@rawbw.com> <CAGBxaXkCWAAfA%2B7x9-icTwO4Vd78EGOeh5-4eG3DUJ_gGVHT1g@mail.gmail.com> <52E46D44.6050403@freebsd.org> <52E47EF7.7040402@ohlste.in> <CAHcXP%2Bfk2T1%2BoYW45BjcimujedJJ2uE%2BS-FutGbyam2i3QRnog@mail.gmail.com>
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On 1/26/14 5:25 AM, Big Lebowski wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Jim Ohlstein <jim@ohlste.in > <mailto:jim@ohlste.in>> wrote: > > Hello, > > > On 1/25/14, 9:04 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On 1/25/14 3:48 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Yuri <yuri@rawbw.com > <mailto:yuri@rawbw.com>> wrote: > > On 01/25/2014 14:44, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > The key seems to be that no one has time to do the > stuff they really > want > to do (get new ports into the system)... to that > end automating > everything > that can be automated is sure help free up > comitter time so they can > look > at what is interesting > > Yes. I just can't imagine any generic port tests that > can't be automated > and coded into the script once and for good. > Ideal system should be like github with the added > automated testing > between pull request submission and merge. It should > either fail and > notify > the submitter, or succeed and notify the committers. > > Git hup (or *ANY* remote service for that matter) is a no > go IMO > > > You just don't get it. > > Again, you just really, really, don't get it. > > You WANT a gateway to a remote service that the project does > not have to > handle. > > Why? Because then we offload the problem to another org. > > The FreeBSD project should be about innovation in OS design, > platform > and software. Ops work is bunk and just slows us down. > > The more we can outsource the better we'll be. (and what if that > service blows up? well we move on! it's simple!) > > Continuing to insist that we run the services ourselves it > just wasting > our limited resources. Not only that but we get emotionally > attached to > technologies that are old, dying and dead when off the shelf > stuff works > just fine. > > > I've read all 60 or so messages in this thread and there really > are two related but distinct issues here. > > The thread title is "What is the problem with ports PR reaction > delays?". This has meandered into a philosophical debate about who > knows what and who knows squat about version control systems, > whether we need to maintain certain requirements, testing ports, etc. > > I like the KISS approach myself. This can be boiled down to those > two issues, one of which is a symptom of the other. Arguing and > debating over a long term solution to the OP's question does > nothing to solve the problem in the short to intermediate term. > There are 1680 current ports related PR's at this moment. > > As we all know, the committers are volunteers, mostly with real > jobs and real lives and they obviously cannot keep up with the > current load. The short to medium term solution for that is more > committers. I'll add my name to the list of those who are willing > to step in and help to clean up the mess. I'm certain that if a > request went out, there would be many who are more qualified than I. > > At the same time, a group of interested individuals should offer > input to the folks who already are looking at changing the bug > reporting system away from gnats - > https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking/BugRelocationPlan. Doing it > in one fell swoop might make sense. It's "ripping off the bandaid" > but I'd rather do it only once myself. > > What does *not* make sense is a new port for what might be a very > useful tool waiting since September for someone to look at it. > Arguing over git and subversion et alia does nothing to fix that. > As they say on the ESPN NFL pregame show, "C'mon man!". > > > I can't agree more. I can see, understand and accept reasons why we > cant move from SVN to GitHub/Git and I certainly dont think that it > would be solution to current problems. It seems like this is not > neccessary, it wont happen, so I think we can end that discussion > here. However, we do have all the tools to automate this process, so I > really dont understand why not to do this, especially it is perfectly > doable with SVN, Redports are already doing so, and there are people > willing to work on it. > Thanks Big Lebowski <spankthespam@gmail.com>! I'm not sure if taking your word for it will be the be all and end all of progress on this issue. I do have hope, after all as Max Plancksaid: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." I just have my fingers cross that we are not so insular, so heels dug deep in the dirt, and so curmudgeonly that we drive away anyone interested in new technology. I mean, if we're all so firm in our beliefs there are dozens of other open source projects that encourage new things that people will flock to. -Alfred
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