From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 00:11:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA06485 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:11:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06479 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:11:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA06330; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:11:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802010811.AAA06330@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Helmut F. Wirth" cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 08:37:22 +0100." <34D42632.41C67EA6@eunet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:11:09 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Is a there a fundamental difference between our ptrace and linux's ptrace for which the linux emulation layer does not implement ptrace? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 01:07:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11301 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:07:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from svr-a-03.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-03.core.theplanet.net [194.152.64.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA11289 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:07:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from timo@timog.prestel.co.uk) Received: from modem33.tweety.pol.co.uk (timog.prestel.co.uk) [195.92.6.161] by svr-a-03.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0xyvMZ-0006q0-00; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:06:51 +0000 Received: (qmail 183 invoked by uid 1007); 1 Feb 1998 09:04:16 -0000 Message-ID: <19980201090415.34269@timog.prestel.co.uk> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:04:15 +0000 From: Timo Geusch To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fast IDE CDROM problem identified Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi all, After a lot of reading & poking around I now identified the problem. When my CD drive spins down, it immediately goes to STANDBY mode, as reported by the ATAPI CHECK POWER MODE command. According to the ATAPI specs, an ATAPI device may take up to 30 seconds to go into ACTIVE mode again. As the FreeBSD ATAPI driver doesn't check for the device's current power mode, it times out long before. I'm currently trying to add the necessary code to the ATAPI driver in order to check for device's power settings and will post my diffs as soon as I'm done. Regards, Timo -- Timo Geusch UNIX/NT System programmer & JAVA wizzard-in-training 'I ask for so little ... and boy, do I get it' Dilbert From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 06:39:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14991 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:39:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14986 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.113]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA127; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:36:52 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA00695; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:38:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:38:39 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: Amancio Hasty , "Helmut F. Wirth" Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: Amancio Hasty , "Helmut F. Wirth" , "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <34D42632.41C67EA6@eunet.at> <199802010811.AAA06330@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802010811.AAA06330@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 12:11:09AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 12:11:09AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Is a there a fundamental difference between our ptrace and linux's > ptrace for which the linux emulation layer does not implement ptrace? > > > Amancio This is somewhat related, so I thought I'd mention it before this thread dies... I can build Mesa2.6b5 using the linux-glide target with no problems; however, if I try to use the linux-386-glide target, every program that uses the Mesa libraries will coredump with an illegal instruction exception. It seems that the assembler doesn't do it's job as well under our emulation as it does under Linux... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 07:25:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21421 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:25:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp5.portal.net.au [202.12.71.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA21395 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:25:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00463 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:48:46 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802011518.BAA00463@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New -current splashkit available. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:48:46 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Thanks to some nice work by Kazu, and some spare time this weekend (no thanks to the discount Sega Rally 8), I am happy to announce the latest splashkit release. Notable new features include: - Works with kzipped kernels. - Uses gzipped image data, reducing the footprint of the splash data file and kernel memory used for image storage. A new 'installsplash' program converts standard DIB (.BMP) files for use. - Centres images smaller than the screen. - Works more like a screensaver, which should reduce problems with X, etc. - Has kbdcontrol support for the 'display splash' key. The distribution is available at ftp://ftp.gsoft.com.au/misc/splashkit-980202.tar.gz As always, feedback and criticism are welcome. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 08:28:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28056 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:28:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28050 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 08:28:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from pedro.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.30]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA7775; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:31:50 +0500 Message-ID: <34D4A2C7.2781E494@asme.org> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:28:55 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmaddox@scsn.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work References: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <199802011510.BAA00421@word.smith.net.au> <19980201102721.01931@scsn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" (re directed to hackers again) Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > Mesa as Linux-ELF binaries (necessary because glide is only available > for linux). This naturally requires using the Linux devel tools, > including the assembler. Well I don't maintain the linux compiler, but I have always wanted to change the emulated one with a native crosscompiler. The new (BTW, could some just commit it ? ;-) ) crosssco uses the latest binutils, which is probably the cause for your problems. If you build the new kit with TARGET=i386-linux and replace newlib with the native linux libraries it might work better, and even configure could detect it. I've always wanted to change this, but 1) I never recieved any feedback if this was desirable. 2) I don't have time to hunt and package the latest linux libs. 3) I don't work with linux :-). cheers, Pedro. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 09:01:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01654 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:01:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA01618 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:01:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.64]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA142; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:58:47 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA00596; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:00:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201120033.32850@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:00:33 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <199802011510.BAA00421@word.smith.net.au> <19980201102721.01931@scsn.net> <34D4A2C7.2781E494@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34D4A2C7.2781E494@asme.org>; from Pedro F. Giffuni on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 11:28:55AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 11:28:55AM -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Well I don't maintain the linux compiler, but I have always wanted to > change the emulated one with a native crosscompiler. The new (BTW, could > some just commit it ? ;-) ) crosssco uses the latest binutils, which is > probably the cause for your problems. > If you build the new kit with TARGET=i386-linux and replace newlib with > the native linux libraries it might work better, and even configure > could detect it. > I've always wanted to change this, but > 1) I never recieved any feedback if this was desirable. > 2) I don't have time to hunt and package the latest linux libs. > 3) I don't work with linux :-). Hmmm... I assumed that the Linux assembler was producing bogus output because of some bug in the emulation. It never occurred to me that the linux-devel port just contains outdated tools. Thanks for the pointer to crossco, BTW... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 09:58:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07662 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:58:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07637; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:58:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08755; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:56:46 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34D381FD.E18BF485@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:56:45 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG CC: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: GUI admin tool Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Just set up a web page for my initial sources. http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html please look. P.S. I'm dont shure, what is right place for this announce: hackers or ports, so, sorry for cross-posting. -- @= //RSSH mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 10:55:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA15358 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15344 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:55:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from pedro.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.48]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA7873 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:59:16 +0500 Message-ID: <34D4C55C.15FB7483@asme.org> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:56:28 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work References: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <199802011510.BAA00421@word.smith.net.au> <19980201102721.01931@scsn.net> <34D4A2C7.2781E494@asme.org> <19980201120033.32850@scsn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > Hmmm... I assumed that the Linux assembler was producing bogus output > because of some bug in the emulation. It never occurred to me that the > linux-devel port just contains outdated tools. > Well if the emulator doesn't scream, I guess we'll have to give the emulator the benefit of doubt. In any case, it's a good idea to have the tools independent from the emulation. Pedro. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 11:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA17622 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:13:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA17586; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:13:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA15937; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:10:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199802011910.UAA15937@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit In-Reply-To: <34D25FB6@smginc.com> from Adam Turoff at "Jan 30, 98 03:19:00 pm" To: AdamT@smginc.com (Adam Turoff) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:10:20 +0100 (CET) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" According to Adam Turoff: > > > 3. We write something that tries to accomplish both the above, > > > hopefully not causing too many compromises. > > > > This would be a major layering mistake. > > I don't know about that. There are two interrelated issues here, as you > point out. First, we need a virgin installer to get FreeBSD on new > hardware. > That should leave a system that can be admined by something more > friendly than cryptic UNIX commands documented over $100 worth > of O'Reilly titles. THAT will help evangelize FreeBSD IMNSHO. Ok... I can't shut up. Here's my fantasy (kinda long). Enjoy! It should be a completely text based installer, much like the current one. There is no need for anything fancier. It should, however, be redesigned a little. I think it would be nice if the installer allowed you to set exactly one "configure thing". The keyboard setting. That should be asked for first thing, without having to be found in a meny. Then it should continue to ask user which kind of install to do. Have an "install" and one "advanced install" button. Choose install, and you get to read some documentation (not to long so people don't care to read it, but with a "tell me more" button), and then choose "normal, express, custom". Generally treat the user gently, and don't assume he knows strange words like "mount point". Take him through an install of the type we have today, but improved where possible. Give lots of recomendations. Choose "advanced install", and get the "ok, you know what you're doing, so help yourself" kind of thing that the current sysinstall provides with it's "custom" choise. In both these cases, let the user choose disks, and label them, set up ethernet/ppp/cdrom/whatever, and then start installing. When done, ask user to remove floppy, FreeBSD will reboot. It should now and run the generic system configuring utility (with option -FirstTime, for "Welcome to your new FreeBSD system. It's time to frob some knobs" message.) on ttyv0 instead of the login prompt. Also while loading kernel, have a nice splashscreen with a welcome pic, and a text like "press ESC to see probing messages", or whatever, down in a corner somewhere. The other virtual screens should be available with a login prompt where you could log in as root without password, so that people like us that's been there before can go in and do stuff on the side. Here you are able to set most things you will want to set, preferably even here with a special "advanced" choise, or having "advanced" choises for each thing you do, where it's needed (just like Win95 does it). Then you select "configuration done", and FreeBSD reboots, comes up again with "the real" splash image, and after booting, displays login prompt. This would allow for more free space on the boot floppy, for more drivers (preferably dynamically loaded in the future for small memory footprint) and more space for other stuff (ppp's libs? :-). Also it would allow for the system config even the first time to be pretty nice, since it can contain any amount of bloat needed. The system is already installed and running when you get to that point. So... Comments on this, anyone? :-) /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 11:21:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18777 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:21:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18725 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:21:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.64]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA174; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:18:36 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA02443; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:20:20 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201142020.50990@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:20:20 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <199802011510.BAA00421@word.smith.net.au> <19980201102721.01931@scsn.net> <34D4A2C7.2781E494@asme.org> <19980201120033.32850@scsn.net> <34D4C55C.15FB7483@asme.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34D4C55C.15FB7483@asme.org>; from Pedro F. Giffuni on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 01:56:28PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 01:56:28PM -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > > > Hmmm... I assumed that the Linux assembler was producing bogus output > > because of some bug in the emulation. It never occurred to me that the > > linux-devel port just contains outdated tools. > > > Well if the emulator doesn't scream, I guess we'll have to give the > emulator the benefit of doubt. In any case, it's a good idea to have the > tools independent from the emulation. Maybe. I'll reserve judgement until Eric updates the linux_devel port to include up-to-date tools... I am in the process right now of fetching the files for crosssco, so hopefully that will fix my immediate problem. Thanks... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 11:42:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21817 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:42:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21776 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:42:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08493; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802011942.LAA08493@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: dmaddox@scsn.net cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:20:20 EST." <19980201142020.50990@scsn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:42:13 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi Guus, Earlier linux binutils have been reported to be buggy with respect to Mesa-lib or so has been posted on 3dfx.glide.linux. Cheers, Amancio > On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 01:56:28PM -0500, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm... I assumed that the Linux assembler was producing bogus output > > > because of some bug in the emulation. It never occurred to me that the > > > linux-devel port just contains outdated tools. > > > > > Well if the emulator doesn't scream, I guess we'll have to give the > > emulator the benefit of doubt. In any case, it's a good idea to have the > > tools independent from the emulation. > > Maybe. I'll reserve judgement until Eric updates the linux_devel port > to include up-to-date tools... I am in the process right now of fetching > the files for crosssco, so hopefully that will fix my immediate problem. > > Thanks... > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 11:54:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23288 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23275 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.64]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA161; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:51:51 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA02691; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:53:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201145335.14934@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:53:35 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: Amancio Hasty , dmaddox@scsn.net Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: Amancio Hasty , dmaddox@scsn.net, "Pedro F. Giffuni" , hackers@freebsd.org References: <19980201142020.50990@scsn.net> <199802011942.LAA08493@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802011942.LAA08493@rah.star-gate.com>; from Amancio Hasty on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 11:42:13AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 11:42:13AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Hi Guus, > > Earlier linux binutils have been reported to be buggy with respect > to Mesa-lib or so has been posted on 3dfx.glide.linux. > > Cheers, > Amancio Ok, if people are having problems with old binutils under Linux, I guess we can hardly expect them to be problem-free under Linux emulation :-) I guess I'll have to move to a cross-development environment for building Linux stuff. It would be nice, though, if someone who actually uses Linux (and has commit privs) could update the linux_devel port... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 12:06:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA25110 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:06:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu [134.84.115.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA25103; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:06:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu) Received: from x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18654; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:45:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chris@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu) Message-Id: <199802011945.NAA18654@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> From: mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu To: Terry Lambert cc: Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem hacking In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:49:17 GMT." <199802010049.RAA18732@usr06.primenet.com> References: <199802010049.RAA18732@usr06.primenet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:45:58 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:49:17 +0000 (GMT) Terry Lambert wrote >> What do you know about LFS for FreeBSD. I haven't used >> it, but from what I understand, it was an early implementation >> of a "log-structured filesystem" for BSD. Are "log-structured" >> and "journaling" synonymous? > >No, they are not. A log-structured FS logs data; a journalling >FS logs data and transactions in a transaction journal. > >A log structured FS can only roll transactions back to recover from >failures. A journalling FS can roll transactions forward. OK, let's see if I get this -- a log-structured filesystem stores file data and metadata only in its log. A journaling filesystem stores data, metadata, *and operations* in the log? >A Journalling FS also allows you to expose a transactioning interface >to allow you to group transactions. Is there a portable way to do this? >XFS internally seems to look a lot like NTFS internally. That is, >it seems to journal. I've only looked at images of small XFS's >snapshotted before and after transactions, I haven't really >snooped out the structure. You probably know more about both than I do. All I know about XFS is what I read in the "white paper" on SGI's web site... >> As far as Logical Volume Management, SGI's XLV is a good target >> (can you tell what kind of UNIXen I use at work yet? :-). In my >> understanding, the system marks each disk with its place in the >> volume, so the logical volume can be automagically composed on >> boot-up. This is nice, because there is no configuration file to >> worry about, and you can move around the disks on the >> SCSI chain without affecting the volume. > >CCD can do this as well. How? I thought CCD built the logical volumes from /etc/ccd.conf on bootup. Thus, moving around disks would require editing /etc/ccd.conf on bootup. XLV does this all automatically. Or has this been added in -current ? -- Chris Mikkelson mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu Microsoft: We're the software company -- we don't care, 'cause we don't have to. --- Lily Tomlin, updated From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 12:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA00831 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:30:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atlantis.eunet.at (a064.static.Vienna.AT.EU.net [193.154.186.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00821 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hfwirth@eunet.at) Received: from atlantis (localhost.ping.at [127.0.0.1]) by atlantis.eunet.at (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00362; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:30:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34D4DB53.2781E494@eunet.at> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:30:11 +0100 From: "Helmut F. Wirth" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work References: <199802011942.LAA08493@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Hi Guus, > > Earlier linux binutils have been reported to be buggy with respect > to Mesa-lib or so has been posted on 3dfx.glide.linux. > > Cheers, > Amancio > I tried to use binutils-2.8.1 and built for Linux-ELF. The assembler is usable as a replacement for the assembler from linux_devel. It even has MMX instructions. I have not tested it very much, but it seems to work. But I installed *only* the assembler, not the linker and the other tools, just to be sure. I did not yet have the time to try it with Mesa-386-glide. If it solves the SIGILL, I will report it here. Helmut -- Helmut F. Wirth Email: hfwirth@ping.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 12:34:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01565 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:34:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01518 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:34:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.64]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA114; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:31:56 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA10903; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:33:39 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201153339.54250@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:33:39 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: "Helmut F. Wirth" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: "Helmut F. Wirth" , hackers@freebsd.org References: <34D42632.41C67EA6@eunet.at> <199802010811.AAA06330@rah.star-gate.com> <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <34D4D9E2.167EB0E7@eunet.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <34D4D9E2.167EB0E7@eunet.at>; from Helmut F. Wirth on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 09:24:02PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 09:24:02PM +0100, Helmut F. Wirth wrote: > Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > I can build Mesa2.6b5 using the linux-glide target with no problems; > > however, if I try to use the linux-386-glide target, every program > > that uses the Mesa libraries will coredump with an illegal instruction > > exception. It seems that the assembler doesn't do it's job as well > > under our emulation as it does under Linux... > > Same problem here. This was the reason I went for a solution for > debugging cross developed programs under FreeBSD. I want to play with > my new 3DFX chipset but there is no chance I will start using Linux > for it. Heh, I can identify with that ;-) I'm attempting to build the crosssco port with i386-linux as the target instead of i386-coff right now, so hopefully that will be the solution for me... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 12:34:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01747 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:34:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atlantis.eunet.at (a064.static.Vienna.AT.EU.net [193.154.186.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01538 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hfwirth@eunet.at) Received: from atlantis (localhost.ping.at [127.0.0.1]) by atlantis.eunet.at (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00342; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:24:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34D4D9E2.167EB0E7@eunet.at> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 21:24:02 +0100 From: "Helmut F. Wirth" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmaddox@scsn.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work References: <34D42632.41C67EA6@eunet.at> <199802010811.AAA06330@rah.star-gate.com> <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 12:11:09AM -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Is a there a fundamental difference between our ptrace and linux's > > ptrace for which the linux emulation layer does not implement ptrace? > > > > > > Amancio > > This is somewhat related, so I thought I'd mention it before this thread > dies... > > I can build Mesa2.6b5 using the linux-glide target with no problems; > however, if I try to use the linux-386-glide target, every program > that uses the Mesa libraries will coredump with an illegal instruction > exception. It seems that the assembler doesn't do it's job as well > under our emulation as it does under Linux... Same problem here. This was the reason I went for a solution for debugging cross developed programs under FreeBSD. I want to play with my new 3DFX chipset but there is no chance I will start using Linux for it. Helmut -- Helmut F. Wirth Email: hfwirth@ping.at From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 12:45:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03735 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:45:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03718 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:45:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12494; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:03:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199802012003.MAA12494@austin.polstra.com> To: julian@whistle.com Subject: Re: cvSup and permissions In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:03:41 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In article , Julian Elischer wrote: > What are the correct permissions for the CVS tree? > Unless I have everything rw_rw_??? with a group of 'eng' (engineering) > people in the 'eng' group cannot use it. The directories at least have to be group writable. It's actually OK if the RCS files in them are read-only. They never get modified. They're always copied with changes into a new file. > however cvsup keeps changing the permissions of everything so I've had to > add a 'chmod -R g+rw /cvs; chgrp -R cvs /cvs' to teh script that runs > cvsup each day. That is almost certainly because your umask is 022 when you run cvsup. Make sure it's 002, and you shouldn't have this problem. The documentation isn't good in this area. > Is access to CVS goverened entirely by file permissions? Yes. > We are using cvs directly on that machine, pserver mode within the > company and rsh server elsewhere. I don't want to make cvs SUID.. That's for sure! -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 13:35:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10246 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:35:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10222 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA26613; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:35:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd026567; Sun Feb 1 14:35:27 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA00244; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:35:22 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802012135.OAA00244@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work To: dmaddox@scsn.net Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:35:22 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hfwirth@eunet.at, giffunip@asme.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> from "Donald J. Maddox" at Feb 1, 98 09:38:39 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I can build Mesa2.6b5 using the linux-glide target with no problems; > however, if I try to use the linux-386-glide target, every program > that uses the Mesa libraries will coredump with an illegal instruction > exception. It seems that the assembler doesn't do it's job as well > under our emulation as it does under Linux... Stupid question: Since you built the Linux code on FreeBSD using the Linux tools, did you remember to "brandelf" them Linux so FreeBSD doesn't think they are FreeBSD ELF binaries? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 13:37:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10609 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10514; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr09.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25034; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr09.primenet.com(206.165.6.209) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd025020; Sun Feb 1 14:27:03 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA29406; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:26:58 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802012126.OAA29406@usr09.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Filesystem hacking To: mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:26:58 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, Matthew.Alton@anheuser-busch.com, fs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802011945.NAA18654@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> from "mikk0022@maroon.tc.umn.edu" at Feb 1, 98 01:45:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > OK, let's see if I get this -- a log-structured filesystem stores > file data and metadata only in its log. A journaling filesystem > stores data, metadata, *and operations* in the log? A log structure filesystem logs writes. The youngets write claiming to contain some data wins. The data and metadata are written seperately, but tagged as being together for write that span more than one logging region. Otherwise, they are written together. The "valid" stamp is the last thing written to the log. On reboot, the logs are scanned to "find out where everything is". Oldest date wins, so long as it has a "valid" stamp. For multilog transactions, the "valid stamp is delayed for two or more writes. Logged data does not map 1:1 to user data; for example, you may log several otherwise unrelated writes in the same log. Thus if you fail before a valid stamp, the transactions are rolled back. It is the only thing you can do. A journallying filesystem journals what it is going to do, and that it has done it. If the power goes out after it has stated a full intention, and it hasn't written that it has done it, all full intentions can be rolled forward, not just back. Because the transaction relationship is held in the journal, not in the FS data or metadata, a journalling FS can expose a transactioning interface to user space to allow a program to group intentions. > >A Journalling FS also allows you to expose a transactioning interface > >to allow you to group transactions. > > Is there a portable way to do this? Yes. But it requires a graphical soloution to the soft updates problem; most soloutions to the soft updates problem are hand optimized for how they resolve node-node conflicts, and hand-coded to problem they attempt to solve. Kirk McKusicks port of the Ganger/Patt code is an example of this. To expose a transactioning mechanism, you must allow the specification of soft dependencies *between* stacking layers. Effectively, this means you run a warshal's algorithm on the event/operation nodes that make up the graph of relationships Example 1: I have an event called "delete file". To delete the file, I must perform serveral operations: 1) Delete the blocks hung off the inode 2) Zero the inode 3) Remove the directory entry referring to the inode These operations are "nodes" in a graph, and the meta-operation (or event) is "delete a file"; it constitutes an edge of three nodes. This means that there are two dependency vectors in the graph, and that they have a relationship defined by the connecting node. I'll spare you the details of the dependency resoloution algorithm; you can read Kirk McKusick's code from OpenBSD (not for commercial use without license), or you can read the Ganger/Patt paper. Now, to expose a transactioning system, you need a general algorithm for defining dependencies. Effectively, when you stack your NULLFS layer with the new VOP (or ioctl) "TRANSACT", which takes the arguments "begin", "commit", and "abort". What this means is that you must expose the internals of your graph so that you can register your own "dependency resolvers". Example 2: I have a transaction that requires the deletion of two files. To do this, I must perform the same three operations above, but I must do it twice, and I must abort both operations if I can't complete one. I must also be able to roll-back/roll-forward the operations if the system fails and comes back up. How do I do this? The transaction layer is not really NULL. When you begin a transaction, it uses a namespace escaped file to journal all subsequent VOP's, and to make subsequent requests *appear* to get the new data. It can do this several ways, but the most probable one is to use renames and copies, because renames are atomic. This will allow it to support the transactions on any underlying FS. Alternately, it can journal the transaction by hooking into the dependency queueing mechanism to ensure that the transaction is committed in vector-terminal order. Example 3: A transaction consisting of two events, one containing two nodes, and one containing three: a log write followed by a delete. The transaction system creates an imaginary edge between the terminal node of the log write (the update of the inode size) and the terminal node of the delete (the update of the directory entry block). This edge is a dynamic soft dependency; it is created on the fly, and it will go away after the event (transaction) it represents has completed. It's pretty obvious that the dependency resolvers need to consider the action nodes seperately, and not as an "edge" unit -- in other words, not like the Ganger/Patt code -- for this to be able to work. This is because the transaction layer can't resolve dependencies between edges, only between nodes. This damages some optimizations, mostly having to do with compresion of dependency enumerations (McKusick uses bitmaps for this; technically, you could still do this, but on a node, not an edge, granularity. I *believe* that the losses would be minimal, but I don't have a proof-of-concept implementation of both [yet] to be able to benchmark the monolitic vs. the nodal implementations against each other). So yes, it's possible to do generically, if you think of FS's in terms of events, operations, and dependencies between operations, and if you have soft update technology, and if you implement it correctly. Probably, it's easier at this point to just write a JFS and not worry about making everything work the way it should. Going the other way would probably be worthy of a PhD to somone looking for a Doctoral project. ;-). [ ...automatic aggregation of volumes... ] > >CCD can do this as well. > > How? I thought CCD built the logical volumes from /etc/ccd.conf > on bootup. Thus, moving around disks would require editing > /etc/ccd.conf on bootup. XLV does this all automatically. > > Or has this been added in -current ? No, but it is a trivial hack to add it. Julian's "slice" and "devfs" code provide "volume arrival" events. These events do not propagate as far as I want them to (an arriving device with no claimers would be handed to the VFS for mount in my model), but you could easily put CCD in as a slice type handler. When a device "arrives", you would read the first block and see if it has a "CCDLABEL"; if it does, CCD swallows it. The label contains: 1) A magic number ("CCDLABEL" is as good as any) that means "I am a member of a volume set". 2) A volume set identifier; probably just a unique-across-volumes 32 bit identifier. 3) A count of devices in the volume. 4) An ID indicating which of the devices in #3 the current device represents. When CCD get N of N devices, it exports "/dev/ccd0". It would probably be a good idea to have a "no more devices" event propagated to CCD as well; this would let it recognize a failed RAID-5 subassembly (for example), but it's not absolutely necessary. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 14:15:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA16705 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:15:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA16606 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:15:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au) Message-Id: <199802012215.OAA16606@hub.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA208341320; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:15:20 +1100 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: network LKM driver To: seawood@very.priv.at Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:15:20 +1100 (EDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <05810.885936228_pop3d@localhost> from "Peter Meerwald" at Jan 26, 98 11:05:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In some mail from Peter Meerwald, sie said: > > > Hi all, > > I am working on a driver for a serial adapter with fakes an ethernet interfaces; the driver makes use of an interrupt and does some port I/O > the work is 90 % done - the LKM (it's a misc LKM) is loading and sets up an ethernet interface which works pretty well > > now I am trying to find a way to unload the LKM and bring the interface down... > > is anybody interested in this work? > has anyone done something similar? > anyone interested in a ISA network LKM device driver? Have a look out for something called "vif" - virtual interface or "visr". It's an LKm written for SunOS4 to provide virtual interface which is designed to allow source routes to be used easily. There are two versions around - one which can't be unloaded and one which can. Typically you need to do things like remove from the list of interfaces, invalidate/delete routing references, etc. darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 14:24:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18019 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:24:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from verdi.nethelp.no (verdi.nethelp.no [195.1.171.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA18003 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:24:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) From: sthaug@nethelp.no Received: (qmail 22363 invoked by uid 1001); 1 Feb 1998 22:24:09 +0000 (GMT) To: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: network LKM driver In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:15:20 +1100 (EDT)" References: <199802012215.OAA16606@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.05+ on Emacs 19.28.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:24:09 +0100 Message-ID: <22361.886371849@verdi.nethelp.no> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > Have a look out for something called "vif" - virtual interface or "visr". > > It's an LKm written for SunOS4 to provide virtual interface which is > designed to allow source routes to be used easily. There are two versions > around - one which can't be unloaded and one which can. > > Typically you need to do things like remove from the list of interfaces, > invalidate/delete routing references, etc. I made the modloadable version. It was based on the original from John Ioannidis, with bits and pieces for the modloading/unloading stolen shamelessly from several different places :-) (The route invalidation and interface detach parts are from ppp-2.1.2.) It was basically just a question of putting the code fragments together the right way... Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 14:50:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:50:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21301 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:50:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.64]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA177; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:43:52 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id QAA11143; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:45:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201164534.00142@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:45:34 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: Terry Lambert Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hfwirth@eunet.at, giffunip@asme.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can't get Linux-gdb (from ports collection) to work Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hfwirth@eunet.at, giffunip@asme.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980201093839.06233@scsn.net> <199802012135.OAA00244@usr09.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802012135.OAA00244@usr09.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 09:35:22PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 09:35:22PM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I can build Mesa2.6b5 using the linux-glide target with no problems; > > however, if I try to use the linux-386-glide target, every program > > that uses the Mesa libraries will coredump with an illegal instruction > > exception. It seems that the assembler doesn't do it's job as well > > under our emulation as it does under Linux... > > Stupid question: > > Since you built the Linux code on FreeBSD using the Linux > tools, did you remember to "brandelf" them Linux so FreeBSD > doesn't think they are FreeBSD ELF binaries? As far as I know, brandelf is only necessary for statically-linked ELF binaries. Also, as I stated above, the binaries that are produced work fine if I use the linux-glide target, so it would appear that branding is definitely not the problem. I'm pretty sure it's been established now that the old binutils present in our linux_devel port have problems with Mesa even under Linux. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 15:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29844 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:54:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from echonyc.com (echonyc.com [198.67.15.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29815 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:54:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from benedict@echonyc.com) Received: from localhost (benedict@localhost) by echonyc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09382; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:54:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:54:21 -0500 (EST) From: Snob Art Genre To: "Donald J. Maddox" cc: Mikael Karpberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The BSD License In-Reply-To: <19980130204429.65423@scsn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote: > It should be noted, however, that Ms. Poland is in _sales_, so the very > idea of seeing anything based on LZS being distributed for free is very > likely abhorrent to her :-) She is not a lawyer, so she may be completely > wrong in her belief that anything at all based on LZS is covered by STAC's > patents, but I'm not a lawyer, either, and can't afford to find out that > she _was_ right in court. It sounds like you might do well to acquire a different contact at that company. Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 16:04:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01760 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:04:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.scsn.net (scsn.net [206.25.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01668 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:04:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmaddox@scsn.net) Received: from rhiannon.scsn.net ([208.133.153.177]) by mail.scsn.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-41950U6000L1100S0) with ESMTP id AAA157; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:02:23 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by rhiannon.scsn.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id TAA00306; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:04:06 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from root) Message-ID: <19980201190405.50281@scsn.net> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:04:05 -0500 From: dmaddox@scsn.net (Donald J. Maddox) To: Snob Art Genre Cc: Mikael Karpberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The BSD License Reply-To: dmaddox@scsn.net Mail-Followup-To: Snob Art Genre , Mikael Karpberg , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <19980130204429.65423@scsn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: ; from Snob Art Genre on Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 06:54:21PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, Feb 01, 1998 at 06:54:21PM -0500, Snob Art Genre wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Donald J. Maddox wrote: > > > It should be noted, however, that Ms. Poland is in _sales_, so the very > > idea of seeing anything based on LZS being distributed for free is very > > likely abhorrent to her :-) She is not a lawyer, so she may be completely > > wrong in her belief that anything at all based on LZS is covered by STAC's > > patents, but I'm not a lawyer, either, and can't afford to find out that > > she _was_ right in court. > > It sounds like you might do well to acquire a different contact at that > company. I would probably do better with my own legal counsel, but that's $$$. I am probably gonna write the STAC compression code anyway, for my own amusement, even if I can't integrate it into FBSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 16:34:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA05670 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05645 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:34:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA09767 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:34:08 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Dial-in access in Japan? Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:34:07 -0800 Message-ID: <9763.886379647@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hey folks, Well, I'm here in Japan and it's very, erm, Japanese. ;-) However, I think that I shall most certainly die from lack of packets or something unless I can figure out a way to get onto the internet from my Hotel room. ;) It would also allow me to continue to admin a number of resources important to the project as well as generally stay in touch, so if someone in Japan can perhaps loan me the use of a PPP connection until I leave on the 7th, I would be much indebted. I'm currently using Pacific HiTech's offices to send this message, but I can't keep hijacking people's machines here so it's a very short-term solution. Anyway, if you can help please contact me via Pacific HiTech at 03-5477-9675 or send me email and I will do my best to check my email at least one more time here at PHT. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 17:17:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA10361 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:17:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sphinx.lovett.com (root@sphinx.lovett.com [38.155.241.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA10349 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:17:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ade@demon.net) Received: from gorgon.lovett.com [38.155.241.3] (ade) by sphinx.lovett.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0xzAV9-0004RV-00; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:16:43 -0600 To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner Organization: Demon Internet Reply-To: ade@demon.net In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:59:07 +1030." <199801312329.JAA00596@word.smith.net.au> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:16:42 -0600 From: Ade Lovett Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Mike Smith writes: > >This loses in the case where there is no boot.banner message. Help is >not displayed by default anymore, and there is no way to determine that >you need to type said command. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a way to do this without making the resulting binary too big -- 300 bytes isn't an awful lot to play around with :) That's not to say it couldn't be done, but it would require a not insignificant amount of work to figure out where some existing code can be rewritten to be smaller -- it'll also interfere with any 'real' extra functionality that others want to put in at a later date. I understand the problem with not having a "type 'help'" tag somewhere in the boot loader itself, but is the situation where we don't have a boot.banner (and thus no indication of how to get help) such a major issue? After all, we can ensure that a boot.banner will be present after an initial system install. Should the end-user then go and delete boot.banner, is it not reasonable to assume that they're "advanced" in that they'll remember to be able to type 'help' at the boot prompt? (assuming of course that they haven't trashed boot.text as well :) This is all horribly reminisicent of spending days, data sheets in hand, trying to shave just that one extra cycle out of code, trying to make it fit into horribly small eeproms for embedded systems, many moons ago. -aDe -- Ade Lovett, Demon Internet, Austin, Texas. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 17:27:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA11797 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:27:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp11.portal.net.au [202.12.71.111]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11739 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:26:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00856; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:49:10 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802020119.LAA00856@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: ade@demon.net cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:16:42 MDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:49:09 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > Mike Smith writes: > > > >This loses in the case where there is no boot.banner message. Help is > >not displayed by default anymore, and there is no way to determine that > >you need to type said command. > > Unfortunately, I've yet to find a way to do this without making the > resulting binary too big -- 300 bytes isn't an awful lot to play > around with :) Hmm, if you want to save space, try removing the bad144 stuff. It wastes a great deal of space for almost zero functionality. > I understand the problem with not having a "type 'help'" tag somewhere > in the boot loader itself, but is the situation where we don't > have a boot.banner (and thus no indication of how to get help) such > a major issue? After all, we can ensure that a boot.banner will be > present after an initial system install. Should the end-user then > go and delete boot.banner, is it not reasonable to assume that they're > "advanced" in that they'll remember to be able to type 'help' at > the boot prompt? (assuming of course that they haven't trashed > boot.text as well :) You are suggesting that if boot.banner is not found, boot.help is displayed by default? That's not unreasonable. > This is all horribly reminisicent of spending days, data sheets in > hand, trying to shave just that one extra cycle out of code, trying > to make it fit into horribly small eeproms for embedded systems, > many moons ago. Heh. I've just escaped that one too. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 18:58:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19707 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:58:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19569 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:56:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from ponds.dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA16774 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by ponds.dignus.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04280 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.7/8.6.9) id WAA02139 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:01:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199802020301.WAA02139@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: natd "strangness".. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Ok - I just want to mention a natd issue I seem to have tripped over; perhaps it's corrected in a newer version. First - this is a 2.2.5-RELEASE setup - everything's just straight 2.2.5-RELEASE> Here's the situation: _________ +----------+ +--------+ / \ | lakes |---- (ether) ---- | ponds |=== (modem) == | Internet | +----------+ +--------+ \ / --------- lakes is 10.0.0.3 (ether net) ponds is 10.0.0.1 (ether net) ponds is 166.82.100.202 (Slip to my ISP.) So, as you can imagine - I'm running natd on 'ponds' to be able to connect from the internal network to the internet-at-large. Now, if I start up netscape on 'ponds' (with the DISPLAY pointing back to 'lakes') - things work fine, since 'ponds' is on the internet. But - if I start up netscape on 'lakes' - things _mostly_ work fine. It seems, however, that large requests can get bogged down, or not get through at all (as if some packet reconstruction was messing up natd.) I've done this by running netscape on both machines, pointing to the same sight. The netscape running on 'ponds' will get to the site just fine, while the one on 'lakes' will bail out after some time indicating the server wasn't working... this is especially true for something like, an audio stream for example. The symptom is that a large "something" (graphics, audio, etc....) takes much longer, or is even impossible to receive, on 'lakes' - while it works just fine on 'ponds'... at exactly the same time. About the only thing I can imagine going on here is natd... And, I'm guessing it has to do with piggy-back'd ACKs or perhaps some other packet issues... Any thoughts? Does anyone have suggestions as to what I could check? Just for info - here's my rc.firewall rules. They are someone complicated, the rules for sl1 are to handle a situation where I'm connected to work (which uses it's own internal IP numbers). The rule via sl0 at the end is to handle connecting to the "internet-at-large". Could there be some interaction(s) here? ipfw -f flush ipfw -f add 10 divert 32001 ip from any to 192.42.243.0/24 via sl1 ipfw -f add 11 divert 32001 ip from 192.42.243.0/24 to any via sl1 ipfw -f add 12 divert 32001 ip from 149.173.0.0/16 to any via sl1 ipfw -f add 13 divert 32001 ip from any to 149.173.0.0/16 via sl1 ipfw -f add 14 divert 32001 ip from 10.23.0.0/16 to any via sl1 ipfw -f add 15 divert 32001 ip from any to 10.23.0.0/16 via sl1 ipfw -f add 16 divert 32001 ip from 10.253.0.0/16 to any via sl1 ipfw -f add 17 divert 32001 ip from any to 10.253.0.0/16 via sl1 ipfw -f add 20 divert 32000 ip from any to any via sl0 ipfw -f add pass ip from any to any - Thanks - - Dave Rivers - From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 20:49:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA01569 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:49:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@congo-70.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA01559 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:49:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA27885; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:49:33 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:49:30 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Ade Lovett cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Ade Lovett wrote: > Mike Smith writes: > > > >This loses in the case where there is no boot.banner message. Help is > >not displayed by default anymore, and there is no way to determine that > >you need to type said command. > > Unfortunately, I've yet to find a way to do this without making the > resulting binary too big -- 300 bytes isn't an awful lot to play > around with :) > > That's not to say it couldn't be done, but it would require a > not insignificant amount of work to figure out where some existing > code can be rewritten to be smaller -- it'll also interfere with > any 'real' extra functionality that others want to put in at a later > date. Does the boot floppy use kzip'd kernels? Cause if it doesn't... I think that it should work fine, since the boot floppy doesn't need lkms or anything like that... Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 21:05:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03318 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:05:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@congo-70.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03306 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:05:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA00282 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:06:45 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:06:42 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: egcs and Qt? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Has anyone had luck making the Qt port? I've tried the latest libg++ (2.8.0 snapshots) in both static and shared form, to no avail. I was able to get the Qt port to compile, but linking against the generated library produced many many errors. However creating programs with egcs (or any gcc) linked against the libraries created FreeBSD's gcc (2.7) seem to work fine. Has anyone had better results with an a.out system? Any suggestions? Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 22:16:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA09657 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:16:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09623 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:16:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13463; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 10:11:57 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34D42E48.C62E6993@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:11:54 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: egcs and Qt? References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8661348496FE1515019398AB" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8661348496FE1515019398AB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex wrote: > Has anyone had luck making the Qt port? I've tried the latest libg++ > (2.8.0 snapshots) in both static and shared form, to no avail. I was able > to get the Qt port to compile, but linking against the generated library > produced many many errors. However creating programs with egcs (or any > gcc) linked against the libraries created FreeBSD's gcc (2.7) seem to work > fine. Has anyone had better results with an a.out system? Any > suggestions? > > Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. > Linux fun's probabily solve this problem ;)(look at attachment) > - alex -- @= //RSSH mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA --------------8661348496FE1515019398AB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; name="x" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="x" >From - Sun Feb 1 10:08:58 1998 Received: from nbki.ipri.kiev.ua (mails.ipri.kiev.ua [194.44.146.18]) by cki.ipri.kiev.ua (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21839 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:05:57 +0200 (EET) Received: from cygnus.com (runyon.cygnus.com [205.180.230.5]) by nbki.ipri.kiev.ua (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10112 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:06:52 +0200 (EET) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by runyon.cygnus.com (8.8.7-cygnus/8.8.7) id NAA15624; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:10:38 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: panic.can.seawood.org: cls owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:08:50 -0800 (PST) X-UIDL: 885121530.040 From: Christopher Seawood X-Sender: cls@panic.can.seawood.org To: qt-bugs@troll.no, qt-interest@troll.no, egcs@cygnus.com Subject: Qt & gcc-2.8.0/egcs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-egcs@cygnus.com Precedence: bulk Status: U X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 I have available a patch to qt-1.31 that gets rid of the extra warning messages of gcc-2.8.0/egcs complaining about not explicitly calling the base class when declaring a copy constructor. The patch is available at http://www.seawood.org/linux/qt-1.31-gcc.patch. This also brings up a question about the qt license which everyone can feel free to ignore (ie, no flamewars, please). I had to make a patch to the base classes to fix these problems. According to the Free License, I cannot distribute an srpm with these changes nor can I distribute any rpms of qt programs I've built using my "modified" libraries. This is mildly annoying. Hypothetically speaking, if 1.31 was the last free qt release then users would have to put up with the extra warning messages and hope that the next release of gcc doesn't completely break qt. Or they would have to remember to use an old version of gcc if they want to develop qt apps. That's too much of a hassle, IMO. If the last free release of qt was made LGPL'd instead of using the qt source license, then this would not be an issue. Regards Christopher --- Christopher Seawood * Software Engineer/System Admin cls@seawood.org * http://www.seawood.org --------------8661348496FE1515019398AB-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 1 23:58:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19395 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:58:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (garbanzo@spain-15.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.228.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19387 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:58:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA01616; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:58:44 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Ruslan Shevchenko cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: egcs and Qt? In-Reply-To: <34D42E48.C62E6993@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > Alex wrote: > > > Has anyone had luck making the Qt port? I've tried the latest libg++ > > (2.8.0 snapshots) in both static and shared form, to no avail. I was able > > to get the Qt port to compile, but linking against the generated library > > produced many many errors. However creating programs with egcs (or any > > gcc) linked against the libraries created FreeBSD's gcc (2.7) seem to work > > fine. Has anyone had better results with an a.out system? Any > > suggestions? > > Linux fun's probabily solve this problem ;)(look at attachment) Hmm. Nice to see the warnings gone, but I'm still getting as warnings (relocation burb for some symbol), and then getting undefined errors for the same symbol when running programs linked against that library. Compiling without -fno-implicit-templates will crap out with many many multiply defined symbols. Too bad, cause I kinda liked the smaller executables (-fno-exceptions -fno-rtti) too. Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 00:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26028 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:47:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from omnix.net (omnix.net [194.183.217.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA25917 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by omnix.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA13288; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:45:04 GMT (envelope-from didier@omnix.net) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:45:04 +0100 (CET) From: Didier Derny To: Alex cc: Ruslan Shevchenko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: egcs and Qt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alex wrote: I've been able to port qt-1.32 (directly take from the www.troll.no web site) without any problem. the only things was: install the qt distribution in /usr/local/qt set the variables according to the INSTALL file I'm not sure but it seems that it needs the following environment variable to be defined QTDIR=/usr/local/qt CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/local/qt/include LD_LIBARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib export QTDIR CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH LD_LIBRARY_PATH LIBRARY_PATH cd /usr/local/qt make freebsd-shared in /etc/rc add a line to load the shared library at boot time for example, copy the /usr/local/lib line and replace qt were it's needed. (reboot or execut ldconfig with the right paths) use gmake instead of make You should be able to build qt without any problems. [after I rebuilt kde without any real problems] I've never tried with egcs > > On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > > Alex wrote: > > > > > Has anyone had luck making the Qt port? I've tried the latest libg++ > > > (2.8.0 snapshots) in both static and shared form, to no avail. I was able > > > to get the Qt port to compile, but linking against the generated library > > > produced many many errors. However creating programs with egcs (or any > > > gcc) linked against the libraries created FreeBSD's gcc (2.7) seem to work > > > fine. Has anyone had better results with an a.out system? Any > > > suggestions? > > > > Linux fun's probabily solve this problem ;)(look at attachment) > > Hmm. Nice to see the warnings gone, but I'm still getting as warnings > (relocation burb for some symbol), and then getting undefined errors for > the same symbol when running programs linked against that library. > Compiling without -fno-implicit-templates will crap out with many many > multiply defined symbols. Too bad, cause I kinda liked the smaller > executables (-fno-exceptions -fno-rtti) too. > > Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. > > - alex > > -- Didier Derny didier@omnix.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 01:07:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA28663 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:07:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA28647; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:07:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id BAA11071; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:07:09 -0800 (PST) To: Mikael Karpberg cc: AdamT@smginc.com (Adam Turoff), mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:10:20 +0100." <199802011910.UAA15937@ocean.campus.luth.se> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:07:09 -0800 Message-ID: <11067.886410429@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > So... Comments on this, anyone? :-) Yeah, when do we get to see your prototype? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 01:10:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29454 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:10:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from manuel.nta.no (manuel.nta.no [128.39.1.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA29437 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:10:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no) From: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no X400-Received: by mta tf in /PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/; Relayed; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:25 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:25 +0100 X400-Originator: Igor.Alekseev@kjeller.fou.telenor.no X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/;1268 98/02/02 10:10] Content-Identifier: 1268 98/02/02 Alternate-Recipient: Allowed Message-ID: <"1268 98/02/02 10:10*/G=Igor/S=Alekseev/OU=kjeller/O=fou/PRMD=telenor/ADMD=TELEMAX/C=no/"@MHS> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: help with real time monitoring of TCP control variables Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi, I am doing network performance evaluations with FreeBSD 2.2.5 with ENI ATM card, using HARP atm software. Is it possible to do the real time monitoring (by real time I mean synchronised with tcpdump output) of TCP connection control variables for a particular connection, such as SND.NXT, CWND, SSTHRESH, RTT estimate? Is there a standard mechanism for doing this kind of thing or is some source code change required of tcp code? In any case, could anyone, please give me a hint on the best way to do it? What I need - is basically dumping the above variables into a file along with timestamp, say every time a segment is received or sent. It does not have to be anything extremely versatile, just quick and easy hack will suffice for the time being. By looking at the archives of this list, I found that such discussion was held 2.5 years ago, but I did not find any definite answer to the question posed. Maybe things have changed since then? Thanks in advance, Igor V. Alekseev Visiting reseacher, Telenor, Norway From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 01:21:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01427 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nirvana.isvara.net (root@[130.88.148.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01420 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 01:21:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@challenge.isvara.net) Received: from challenge.isvara.net ([130.88.66.5]) by nirvana.isvara.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03095 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:20:52 GMT Message-ID: <34D58F7D.3F14B20@challenge.isvara.net> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:18:54 +0000 From: freebsd@isvara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: New 3C905B NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi, 3com have recently launched a new version on their Fast Etherlink XL 3C905, called the 3C905B. As far as improvments go, it uses less processor time by making use of longer packet-sized bus master transfers (as opposed to 64 byte transfers, as before). This means new driver code... Check it out at: http://www.3com.com/news/femigration/nics/nic_fastetherlink_index.html Where is the source for the 3C509 et al NICs? something .nasa.gov? Bye _____________________________________ Daniel J Blueman BSc Computation, UMIST, Manchester Email: blue@challenge.isvara.net Web: http://www.challenge.isvara.net/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 04:40:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23770 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 04:40:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA23764 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 04:40:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 7:39:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20126; Mon, 2 Feb 98 07:39:51 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA20042; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:39:42 -0500 Message-Id: <19980202073937.25578@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:39:37 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Tertiary IDE -- not supported? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I tried to build a 3.0-current kernel last night with support for a Tertiary (3rd) IDE controller (port 0x1e8, IRQ 11). After config, the kernel wouldn't build until I did some patching, and once I got it built, it wouldn't detect. Any tips on this would be appreciated. Here's the saga: ***** 1. FIRST TRY: ***** controller wdc2 at isa? port "IO_WD3" bio irq 11 flags 0xa0ffa004 vector wdintr disk wd4 at wdc2 drive 0 No dice. For some reason: #define IO_WD3 0x1e8 is missing from isa.h. "#define IO_WD4 0x168" is missing as well. (Are these non-standard?) ***** 2. SECOND TRY: ***** controller wdc2 at isa? port 0x1e8 bio irq 11 flags 0xa0ffa004 vector wdintr disk wd4 at wdc2 drive 0 This got "isa_devtab_bio[]" set right in ioconf.c, but "isa_biotab_wdc[]" had a conspicuous "(null)" in it as opposed to an acceptable port number (see below). I guess this is a bug in "config". ***** 3. THIRD TRY: ***** Touched up the generated ioconf.c and replaced the "(null)" in the corrupt isa_biotab_wdc[] entry: { -1, &wdcdriver, (null), IRQ11, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 4, 0x0000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, with the correct port number for the teriary controller ("0x1e8"). This kernel did build, but wouldn't detect wdc2 when I booted it up. It occurs to me that one thing I didn't try last night is activating the IORDY jumper on the controller. I wouldn't think this'd make any difference for controller detection though. (Would it?) BTW, this is on 3.0-971208-SNAP. Thanks in advance for any input, Randall <<...snip from ioconf.c after Second Try...>> struct isa_device isa_devtab_bio[] = { /* id driver iobase irq drq maddr msiz intr unit flags s csiid alive ri_flags reconfig enabled conflicts next */ { 10, &wdcdriver, IO_WD1, IRQ14, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 0, 0xA0FFA0 04, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { 11, &wdcdriver, IO_WD2, IRQ15, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 1, 0xA0FFA0 04, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { 12, &wdcdriver, 0x01e8, IRQ11, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 2, 0xA0FFA0 04, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { 13, &fdcdriver, IO_FD1, IRQ6, 2, C 0x00000, 0, fdintr, 0, 0x0000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, 0 }; struct isa_device isa_biotab_wdc[] = { /* id driver iobase irq drq maddr msiz intr unit flags drive alive ri_flags reconfig enabled conflicts next */ { -1, &wdcdriver, IO_WD1, IRQ14, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 0, 0x0000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { -1, &wdcdriver, IO_WD1, IRQ14, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 1, 0x0000, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { -1, &wdcdriver, IO_WD2, IRQ15, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 2, 0x0000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { -1, &wdcdriver, IO_WD2, IRQ15, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 3, 0x0000, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, { -1, &wdcdriver, (null), IRQ11, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 4, 0x0000, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, 0 }; ^^^^^^ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 05:45:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA29202 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:45:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skyserv.med.osd.mil (skyserv.med.osd.mil [199.209.8.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA29186; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:45:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rpotts@med.osd.mil) Received: from (ae1970.med.osd.mil [161.14.168.22]) by skyserv.med.osd.mil (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id IAA12097; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:45:06 -0500 From: "Ross Potts" Message-Id: <9802020845.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:45:05 -0500 X-Mailer: ZM-Win (3.2.1 11Sep94) To: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Overclocking a Pentium 120 Cc: FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I'm sorry for the generality of this question. I need to overclock again and write down the messages this week. I have a PC (Compaq Presario with a Predator motherboard) that I have successfully overclocked to 133 (132.67 actually, 66*2) from 120. I get no error messages in FreeBSD at bootup in 133. When I overclock to 150 (152.74, 50*3), I get a message pertaining to, if I remember, unable to sync the disks (EIDE). Is this speedup too much in that I must reload FreeBSD(I'm not opposed to it) or is it just too fast for my disks? Anyone familiar with Compaq Predators? The CMOS is on the hard drive(UUGGGHH!!!) and I can get to it and make changes and reboot, but I can't get the OS to load. I have identical removable root drives, one with FBSD, one with W95. I get the same (I'm assuming) results: unstable OS loading. I promise I will send more info later. Is there anything you can surmise from what I have written so far? -- UNIX Rules!!! Ross Potts Internet : Ross.Potts@med.osd.mil EDS-D/SIDDOMS Phone : (703) 824-7601 Skyline Two, Suite 1200 Beeper : 5203 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22041 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 05:55:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00957 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:55:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00922 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:55:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no (2602@grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.131]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA16784; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:55:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:54:59 +0100 (MET) To: Nate Williams Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? References: <199801301658.JAA26173@harmony.village.org> <199801301957.MAA17366@mt.sri.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 02 Feb 1998 14:54:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of "Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:57:38 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Nate Williams writes: > # make obj && make depend && make && make install 'make obj depend all install' oughta be enough for anyone. Sorry 'bout the B*** G**** reference :) -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:04:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02222 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:04:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02214 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no (2602@grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.131]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA18139; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:04:21 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:04:21 +0100 (MET) To: Warner Losh Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weekly hangs References: <199801312114.OAA05397@harmony.village.org> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 02 Feb 1998 15:04:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh's message of "Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:14:55 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Warner Losh writes: > I'm getting a hang on a 2.2.2R system here. Every week when > /etc/weekly runs, it hangs. At first I thought it was due to vm space > being exhausted (it is a 486 with 8M of memory) when makedb ran, but > taking that out still causes the crash. Something else that causes a > crash is man vidcontrol. The crash is somewhat interesting, it is a > HARD HANG. You have to hit reset to get out of it. No interrupts > appear to be processed. Sounds like bad SIMMs to me... -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:04:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02316 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:04:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02216 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:04:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA06096; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:04:09 GMT (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Message-ID: <34D5D259.9A47E96A@tdx.co.uk> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:04:09 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ross Potts CC: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 References: <9802020845.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Ross Potts wrote: > > I promise I will send more info later. Is there anything you can surmise from > what I have written so far? Sorry if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick, but simply:- Don't overclock the system to 150Mhz? - If it doesn't work at 150Mhz, don't try to use it at 150Mhz? I've seen P120's go to 133, but never to 150Mhz reliably... Kp ps. It's not nice to crosspost articles... (coming from one who has found this out the hardway ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:07:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03596 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:07:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03574; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:07:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no (2602@grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.131]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id PAA18644; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:07:36 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:07:35 +0100 (MET) To: "Ross Potts" Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 References: <9802020845.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 02 Feb 1998 15:07:35 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Ross Potts"'s message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:45:05 -0500" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" "Ross Potts" writes: > I have a PC (Compaq Presario with a Predator motherboard) that I have > successfully overclocked to 133 (132.67 actually, 66*2) from 120. I get no > error messages in FreeBSD at bootup in 133. When I overclock to 150 (152.74, > 50*3), I get a message pertaining to, if I remember, unable to sync the disks Why do you want to overclock to 150 MHz? Your system will run faster at 133 MHz than at 150 MHz. Remember, bus speed is a *lot* more important than processor speed. "When in doubt, consult http://www.tomshardware.com/overclock.html" -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:39:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA07646 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:39:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA07626; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:39:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA12287; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:39:45 -0800 (PST) To: "Ross Potts" cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:45:05 EST." <9802020845.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 06:39:44 -0800 Message-ID: <12284.886430384@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I promise I will send more info later. Is there anything you can surmise fro m > what I have written so far? Yeah, quit overclocking your machine so darn much if you want it to actually work. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:43:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA08571 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:43:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obiwan.creative.net.au (obiwan.creative.net.au [203.56.168.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA08562 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:43:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@obiwan.creative.net.au) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.creative.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00201; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:42:11 +0800 (WST) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:42:11 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: Karl Pielorz cc: Ross Potts , FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-Reply-To: <34D5D259.9A47E96A@tdx.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Karl Pielorz wrote: > Ross Potts wrote: > > > > I promise I will send more info later. Is there anything you can surmise from > > what I have written so far? > > > Sorry if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick, but simply:- > > Don't overclock the system to 150Mhz? - If it doesn't work at 150Mhz, don't > try to use it at 150Mhz? > > I've seen P120's go to 133, but never to 150Mhz reliably... >From memory, overclocking from 120 to 133 changes the bus speed AND the multiplier. And from memory again, the bus speed on a 133Mhz machine is FASTER than on a 150Mhz machine. SO if you're doing a lot of IO, just overclock it to 133Mhz. :) Adrian -- Adrian Chadd | "I used to be thin, handsome and smart. | Then I discovered UNIX." | From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 06:55:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA10043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:55:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from skyserv.med.osd.mil (skyserv.med.osd.mil [199.209.8.144]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA10026; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:55:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rpotts@med.osd.mil) Received: from (ae1970.med.osd.mil [161.14.168.22]) by skyserv.med.osd.mil (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id JAA18999; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:54:54 -0500 From: "Ross Potts" Message-Id: <9802020954.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:54:52 -0500 In-Reply-To: Adrian Chadd "Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120" (Feb 2, 10:42pm) References: X-Mailer: ZM-Win (3.2.1 11Sep94) To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, FreeBSD-Hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" >From Adrian Chadd: >From memory, overclocking from 120 to 133 changes the bus speed AND the >multiplier. >And from memory again, the bus speed on a 133Mhz machine is FASTER than >on a 150Mhz machine. SO if you're doing a lot of IO, just overclock it >to 133Mhz. :) Well, it looks like the unanimous recommendation is to go no furhter than 133, if at all. Thanks for the input guys/gals. I've also been warned about cross-posting, so this is my last one. THANKS FOR NOT BURNING ME! -- UNIX Rules!!! Ross Potts Internet : Ross.Potts@med.osd.mil EDS-D/SIDDOMS Phone : (703) 824-7601 Skyline Two, Suite 1200 Beeper : 5203 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22041 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 07:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12442 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:14:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cwb.hk.super.net (root@cwb.hk.super.net [202.14.67.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12364 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:14:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bird@FFFF.com) Received: from kwaifong.hk.super.net (root@kwaifong.hk.super.net [202.14.67.7]) by cwb.hk.super.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20275 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:13:53 +0800 (HKT) Received: from FFFF.com (ppp119.netfront.net [202.81.253.119]) by kwaifong.hk.super.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09140 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:13:52 +0800 (HKT) Message-ID: <34D5E39F.33D1205A@FFFF.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:17:54 +0800 From: "It's a Bird" Reply-To: bird@FFFF.com Organization: / FFFF / X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" subscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 07:37:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA15362 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA15353 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:37:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id RAA12850 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:42:07 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 12810; Mon Feb 2 17:41:37 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199802021541.RAA07701@cdsec.com> Subject: Shared memory and signals To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:41:35 +0200 (SAT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi all I was wondering whether it is safe to call shmdt and shmctl from within a signal handler. I have a program which forks off child processes which communicate their results back using a shared memory segment. I would like the parent to detach and release the shared memory from within the SIGCHLD signal handler, but I'm not sure whether this is safe. I would also like a SIGTERM signal handler to be able to free any shared memory segments before exiting. I notice from looking at the kernel source that it appears as if an exit() effectively does a shmdt for each shared memory segment, but not a shmctl(IPC_RMID,..). Does anyone know if this is safe? Thanks in advance Graham -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 09:16:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA26320 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA26268 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:16:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id SAA19994 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:13:49 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:13:48 +0100 (MET) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 References: <9802020845.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> <9802020932.ZM7015@unknown.zmail.host> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) In-Reply-To: "Ross Potts"'s message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:32:18 -0500" Lines: 40 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Date: 02 Feb 1998 18:13:47 +0100 Message-ID: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" "Ross Potts" writes: > ACtually , I could just swap a 133 from work, clock it to 150, then put my 120 > in at work and clock it to 133. I'm such a dirty bum! IMHO, if you ask for advice, you should at least be prepared to listen to what you actually get. A 150 Mhz Pentium is clocked at 60 MHz externally, while a 133 Mhz Pentium is clocked at 66 Mhz. This means that RAM, L2 cache, the motherboard chipset (including I/O controllers) and the PCI bus (which runs at half the bus clock, i.e. 30 or 33 MHz) is slower in a 150 MHz machine than in a 133 MHz machine. Be my guest and count on your fingers: that's practically the entire computer! The only situation in which a 150 MHz machine beats a 133 MHz machine is when doing a very long series of very simple calculations on very small data sets (i.e. data sets which fit entirely into the L1 cache - *not* the L2 cache since it is clocked at bus speed). That situation is practically never encountered in real applications, and most certainly not while running a task-switching OS such as FreeBSD. You will gain *nothing* by overclocking your 120 or 133 MHz Pentium to 150 MHz. If you still don't believe me, check out the URL I gave you earlier today. You will find benchmark results of various processors run at various bus speeds and clock multiplier settings. And, the 133 MHz processor you have at work will probably not run any better at 150 MHz than the 120 MHz you have at home, because the odds are that the 120 MHz is a 133 Mhz chip, re-marked by Intel to fill the demand for 120 MHz chips. Finally, I don't know if I like your attitude very much. Overclocking is a nice feature, not a God-given right. If your processor runs well when overclocked, fine. If it doesn't, don't complain - you got what you paid for in the first place, no more, no less. -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 09:48:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29826 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:48:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29758 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:47:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16143; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA27920; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:47:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:47:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199802021747.KAA27920@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Cc: Nate Williams , Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? In-Reply-To: References: <199801301658.JAA26173@harmony.village.org> <199801301957.MAA17366@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > Nate Williams writes: > > # make obj && make depend && make && make install > > 'make obj depend all install' oughta be enough for anyone. Actually, no. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 10:10:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03303 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA03180 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:10:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA16366; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:10:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA28241; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:09:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:09:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199802021809.LAA28241@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Cc: Nate Williams , Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? In-Reply-To: References: <199801301658.JAA26173@harmony.village.org> <199801301957.MAA17366@mt.sri.com> <199802021747.KAA27920@mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > > > # make obj && make depend && make && make install > > > 'make obj depend all install' oughta be enough for anyone. > > Actually, no. > > Would you care to elaborate? :) > > The general idea is that you want to make each of these targets, in > order, and stop everything if one of them fails. Doesn't 'make obj > depend all install' do just that? Yep, but if you do a 'make obj depend', the .depend file won't end up in the obj directory, simple because make doesn't 'reset' it's build environment to take advantage of the obj directory. In the same manner, if you do a 'make depend all', then make won't re-read the dependency files before making 'all' to determine if a file is out-of-date with respect to it's dependencies. This is just a generic problem with all Unix makes, and nothing new to BSD-Make. Normally it works fine since most targets don't depend on the ouytput of the previous target, but if they do there is a chance of not getting the correct results. > I usually (and successfully) do 'make depend all install' to rebuild > my kernel... This works after a new 'config' run since everything needs to be re-built, so you end up building a .depend file for the next build (though if you're blowing everything away everytime the depend step is un-necessary). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 10:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04834 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04604 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:16:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA286; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:18:28 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34D6373B@smginc.com>; Mon, 02 Feb 98 13:14:35 PST From: Adam Turoff To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers , "'abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us'" Subject: RE: WebAdmin Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 13:15:00 PST Message-ID: <34D6373B@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Alex writes: > On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > I think that the atomicity of the transaction for HTML is an implementation > > detal; a detail best served by defineing how a transaction is to take place. > > > > That the HTML post is a "transaction" is seperate from "what to do when > > an HTML post is seen and you are an HTML server". > > Of course, implementation can treat it as a transaction or not. I only > mean that HTTP protocol with forms uploaf provides a mechanism that allows > HTTP server to use transactions regardless of the model used by client for > its actions as long as the client uses HTTP. Standardizing on HTTP as a client/server interface between multiple clients has a lot of possibilities. First, we start with a well defined API to write the server side bits (the admin component subset will require more structure than generic CGI), and the client side starts out with a well defined API that's mostly implemented in almost any language today. However, I'm concerned that HTTP 1.0 is a stateless protocol, and that it's pretty much nothing more than a NFS with remote execution. HTTP 1.1, once everything supports it sufficiently, will handle the stateless part with keep-alive that actually works. Then there's also the question of security. Running a bunch of scripts that create users and such against Apache is not secure. Picking a port other than 80 or 8080 and possibly using SSL on it is marginally better. Since we're talking about system security, it sounds like we need a better security model to establish connections than straight https. I'm guessing writing a new httpd from existing libraries (or hacking Apache to run as admind with a different authentication module) would have a better login model than standard httpd would solve this concern, hopefully once and for all. Once that issue can be settled, the next step is standardizing on a remote call interface. This could be as simple as coming up with a standard set of name=value pairs that both the client and server would understand, or doing something a little more complex and having the client perform resource discovery to see what the server can do. I'd lean towards the latter, since it allows a much finer grain of tuning for the sysadmin - i.e. let anyone log in and change their shell, but only let root change a password and don't let anyone change crontab. > In other words, one can use any browser or proxy or another > server program that replicates its configuration or custom-made client > program, and the transactions model won't be broken if the server uses it. > If the server doesn't care about transactions (plain CGIs with no > locking), transactions support won't magically appear, but IMHO it's > reasonable to keep the requirements to server higher than ones to the > clients. Yes, keeping the server requirements higher than client requirements is a reasonable decision. But transactioning should not be something to ignore. If at the very least journaling wasn't supported, this system would be friendly but risky to use - kinda like NT. :-) -- Adam. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 10:19:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA04867 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04802 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:18:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA26649; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:18:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:18:28 +0100 (MET) To: Nate Williams Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? References: <199801301658.JAA26173@harmony.village.org> <199801301957.MAA17366@mt.sri.com> <199802021747.KAA27920@mt.sri.com> <199802021809.LAA28241@mt.sri.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 02 Feb 1998 19:18:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:09:58 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Nate Williams writes: > This is just a generic problem with all Unix makes, and nothing new to > BSD-Make. Normally it works fine since most targets don't depend on the > ouytput of the previous target, but if they do there is a chance of not > getting the correct results. Makes sense. > > I usually (and successfully) do 'make depend all install' to rebuild > > my kernel... > This works after a new 'config' run since everything needs to be > re-built, so you end up building a .depend file for the next build > (though if you're blowing everything away everytime the depend step is > un-necessary). I tend to reconfig a lot :) -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 11:03:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14106 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:03:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14022; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:03:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA280; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:05:07 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34D6422A@smginc.com>; Mon, 02 Feb 98 14:01:14 PST From: Adam Turoff To: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'config@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'mike@smith.net.au'" Subject: Multi-faced admin Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 14:03:00 PST Message-ID: <34D6422A@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a FreeBSD box, I came across a link to Caldera's COAS project: http://www.coas.org I'm rather sorry to say that I haven't looked deeply into some of the broad scope ideas that people have been posting to -hackers recently. (I feel rather guilty that I haven't committed my big picture to bits and bytes yet either.) We all know what it means to be spread thin, I guess. :-) Anyway, skimming over COAS, (Caldera Open Adminstration System), it looks like either it's something worth porting, or it's something worth improving upon. All of the standard knobs are there, like curses/X/Java interfaces, etc. (Sorry, I can't post a summary right now. The code is at v0.09, appears to use lots of python and is GPL'd.) --- Reading the post about UMich's LDAP engine, it sounds rather radical. So, as of the moment, here's a concise view of what I'm seeing/hearing for a FreeBSD framework: - httpd type server (easy to plug any client into/write new clients) - standardized CGI interface subset for admin modules - LDAP for config managment by admin modules Five layers (three for glue) to have any random client reconfigure any part of the system. The top glue is pretty dumb; it just standardizes the interface. The middle glue layer is where all the work is done. The bottom glue layer appears rather dumb, but it should hide the complexity of a bazillion different config file formats (if I'm reading what Mike is saying about LDAP correctly). Sound good? I'll start a prototype in my copious free time before the end of the month. :-) -- Adam. PS: Mike, where can I find some docs, etc. on the UMich LDAP server? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 11:34:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21786 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:34:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA21762; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:34:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14431; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:32:24 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34D4E9DE.3F127D46@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:32:18 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Turoff CC: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'config@freebsd.org'" , "'mike@smith.net.au'" Subject: Re: Multi-faced admin References: <34D6422A@smginc.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0D9DB95FA17AC9268C1299B7" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" --------------0D9DB95FA17AC9268C1299B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Turoff wrote: > Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- URL ? > FreeBSD > box, I came across a link to Caldera's COAS project: http://www.coas.org > > I'm rather sorry to say that I haven't looked deeply into some of the > broad > scope ideas that people have been posting to -hackers recently. (I feel > rather guilty that I haven't committed my big picture to bits and bytes > yet > either.) We all know what it means to be spread thin, I guess. :-) > > Anyway, skimming over COAS, (Caldera Open Adminstration System), > it looks like either it's something worth porting, or it's something > worth > improving upon. All of the standard knobs are there, like curses/X/Java > interfaces, etc. (Sorry, I can't post a summary right now. The code is > at v0.09, appears to use lots of python and is GPL'd.) And it is very unclean, on first look. > --- > > Reading the post about UMich's LDAP engine, it sounds rather radical. > So, as of the moment, here's a concise view of what I'm seeing/hearing > for a FreeBSD framework: > > - httpd type server (easy to plug any client into/write new clients) (why httpd server ? first-step is cgi. > - standardized CGI interface subset for admin modules > - LDAP for config managment by admin modules > > Five layers (three for glue) to have any random client reconfigure > any part of the system. The top glue is pretty dumb; it just > standardizes the interface. The middle glue layer is where all > the work is done. The bottom glue layer appears rather dumb, > but it should hide the complexity of a bazillion different config file > formats > (if I'm reading what Mike is saying about LDAP correctly). > > Sound good? I'll start a prototype in my copious free time before > the end of the month. :-) > I now work on configuration system for FreeBSD, which have next layers: C++ API --------- Tcl binding ----------------- Tk Interface ------------------ CGI Interface (future) --------- CORBA (future) At now I implemented all READ-CONFIG methods in C++, and write a part of GUI stuff, which looks better, than Linux UserCfg in python. look at http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html for details About General interface with Set-Get/Add-Remove metods under abstract stuff: sounds very good, but, imho, we must have glue API interface on some "real" language (tcl or CORBA ), but not declarative "sheme". > -- Adam. > > PS: Mike, where can I find some docs, etc. on the UMich LDAP server? Altavista on Query +LDAP +UNIX work fine ;) -- @= //RSSH mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA --------------0D9DB95FA17AC9268C1299B7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam Turoff wrote:
Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------  URL ?

FreeBSD
box, I came across a link to Caldera's COAS project: http://www.coas.org

I'm rather sorry to say that I haven't looked deeply into some of the
broad
scope ideas that people have been posting to -hackers recently.  (I feel
rather guilty that I haven't committed my big picture to bits and bytes
yet
either.)  We all know what it means to be spread thin, I guess.  :-)

Anyway, skimming over COAS, (Caldera Open Adminstration System),
it looks like either it's something worth porting, or it's something
worth
improving upon.  All of the standard knobs are there, like curses/X/Java
interfaces, etc.  (Sorry, I can't post a summary right now.  The code is
at v0.09, appears to use lots of python and is GPL'd.)

 And it is very unclean, on first look.

 ---

Reading the post about UMich's LDAP engine, it sounds rather radical.
So, as of the moment, here's a concise view of what I'm seeing/hearing
for a FreeBSD framework:

 - httpd type server (easy to plug any client into/write new clients)

   (why httpd server ?     first-step is cgi.
 - standardized CGI interface subset for admin modules
 - LDAP for config managment by admin modules

Five layers (three for glue) to have any random client reconfigure
any part of the system.  The top glue is pretty dumb; it just
standardizes the interface.  The middle glue layer is where all
the work is done.  The bottom glue layer appears rather dumb,
but it should hide the complexity of a bazillion different config file
formats
(if I'm reading what Mike is saying about LDAP correctly).

Sound good?  I'll start a prototype in my copious free time before
the end of the month.  :-)
 

I now work on configuration system for FreeBSD, which have next layers:

 C++ API
               --------- Tcl  binding
                              ----------------- Tk Interface
                              ------------------ CGI Interface  (future)
              ---------  CORBA  (future)

At now I implemented all READ-CONFIG methods in C++,
 and write a part of GUI stuff, which looks better, than Linux UserCfg in python.

look at http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html for details

About General interface with Set-Get/Add-Remove metods under abstract stuff:
 sounds very good, but, imho, we must have glue API interface on some
"real"  language (tcl or CORBA ), but  not declarative "sheme".
 

 -- Adam.

PS: Mike, where can I find some docs, etc. on the UMich LDAP server?

Altavista on Query +LDAP  +UNIX work fine ;) 
-- 

    @=                                   
     //RSSH                              mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA
  --------------0D9DB95FA17AC9268C1299B7-- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 11:53:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27718 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:53:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA27645; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:52:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua) Received: from Shevchenko.kiev.ua (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14455; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:50:59 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <34D4EE40.B4AEB283@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:50:57 +0200 From: Ruslan Shevchenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Turoff CC: "'hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'config@freebsd.org'" , "'mike@smith.net.au'" Subject: Re: Multi-faced admin References: <34D6422A@smginc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" At first, sorry if it is my second podt (I just crashed my Netscape, so re-reply message) Adam Turoff wrote: > Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a > FreeBSD > Please, can you give URL ? > box, I came across a link to Caldera's COAS project: http://www.coas.org > > I'm rather sorry to say that I haven't looked deeply into some of the > broad > scope ideas that people have been posting to -hackers recently. (I feel > rather guilty that I haven't committed my big picture to bits and bytes > yet > either.) We all know what it means to be spread thin, I guess. :-) > > Anyway, skimming over COAS, (Caldera Open Adminstration System), > it looks like either it's something worth porting, or it's something > worth > improving upon. All of the standard knobs are there, like curses/X/Java > interfaces, etc. (Sorry, I can't post a summary right now. The code is > at v0.09, appears to use lots of python and is GPL'd.) > I look on it -- not very fine. > --- > > Reading the post about UMich's LDAP engine, it sounds rather radical. > So, as of the moment, here's a concise view of what I'm seeing/hearing > for a FreeBSD framework: > > - httpd type server (easy to plug any client into/write new clients) > - standardized CGI interface subset for admin modules > - LDAP for config managment by admin modules > > Five layers (three for glue) to have any random client reconfigure > any part of the system. The top glue is pretty dumb; it just > standardizes the interface. The middle glue layer is where all > the work is done. The bottom glue layer appears rather dumb, > but it should hide the complexity of a bazillion different config file > formats > (if I'm reading what Mike is saying about LDAP correctly). > > Sound good? I'll start a prototype in my copious free time before > the end of the month. :-) > I have the partial realization of the next system: C++ API -------- Command-Line -------- TCL-binding ------------ Tk interface ------------ CGI interface (feauture) --------- CORBA interface (future) ------------- TCL-binding ------------- Java binding for details, look at http://cam.grad.kiev.ua/~rssh/admin/admin.html In principle is good to use some generic Set-Get/Add-Delete interface under abstract classes, but glue must be, IMHO, not declarative "sheme" as in COAS, but have some real API (TCL or CORBA). Of course, we can use sheme-s on some level. > -- Adam. > > PS: Mike, where can I find some docs, etc. on the UMich LDAP server? Altavista. ;) -- @= //RSSH mailto://Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 12:10:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01008 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:10:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ocean.campus.luth.se (ocean.campus.luth.se [130.240.194.116]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00774; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:08:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se) Received: (from karpen@localhost) by ocean.campus.luth.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA18349; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:05:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from karpen) From: Mikael Karpberg Message-Id: <199802022005.VAA18349@ocean.campus.luth.se> Subject: Re: Multi-faced admin In-Reply-To: <34D4EE40.B4AEB283@Shevchenko.kiev.ua> from Ruslan Shevchenko at "Feb 1, 98 11:50:57 pm" To: Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua (Ruslan Shevchenko) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:05:32 +0100 (CET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" According to Ruslan Shevchenko: > > Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a > > FreeBSD > Please, can you give URL ? Er, cool. I didn't know I had such a page ;-) Seriously, though, I think Alex has his terms all screwed up. Probably silly enough to use a brower to send mails, and mixes up pages and mails. I sent a suggestion to hackers@FreeBSD.ORG and config@FreeBSD.ORG, and that's all I did. /Mikael From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 12:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04399 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:34:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sphinx.lovett.com (root@sphinx.lovett.com [38.155.241.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04278 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:34:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ade@demon.net) Received: from gorgon.lovett.com [38.155.241.3] (ade) by sphinx.lovett.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0xzSZL-0005It-00; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:34:15 -0600 To: Mike Smith cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: boot floppy banner Organization: Demon Internet Reply-To: ade@demon.net In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:49:09 +1030." <199802020119.LAA00856@word.smith.net.au> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:34:15 -0600 From: Ade Lovett Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Mike Smith writes: > >Hmm, if you want to save space, try removing the bad144 stuff. It >wastes a great deal of space for almost zero functionality. Right. By removing the DO_BAD144 define I've now got the space to implement the next attempt at the boot.banner stuff, also keeping the "Can't find " printf's, though I've moved this to openrd() itself to remove a little bit of code duplication. If /boot.banner exists then that will be displayed and, if /boot.help exists, the boot prompt is modified to tell the use that more information can be found by typing 'help'. If it doesn't exist, then /boot.help will be displayed (if it exists) followed by the regular boot prompt messages. If the user then types 'help', the contents of /boot.help will be displayed (with the regular boot prompt message), otherwise they'll be told that no further help is available. Patch (with cvs diff -c this time :) is attached at the end. I guess the main question is whether losing BAD144 support entirely is an acceptable loss.. -aDe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- gorgon 80# cvs diff -c cvs diff: Diffing . Index: Makefile =================================================================== RCS file: /code/FreeBSD/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.61 diff -c -r1.61 Makefile *** Makefile 1998/01/27 16:56:43 1.61 --- Makefile 1998/02/02 20:12:34 *************** *** 12,18 **** -mno-486 \ -DBOOTWAIT=${BOOTWAIT} -DTIMEOUT=${TIMEOUT} CFLAGS+= -DBOOTSEG=${BOOTSEG} -DBOOTSTACK=${BOOTSTACK} ! CFLAGS+= -DDO_BAD144 CFLAGS+= -DVESA_SUPPORT CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../.. CFLAGS+= ${CWARNFLAGS} --- 12,18 ---- -mno-486 \ -DBOOTWAIT=${BOOTWAIT} -DTIMEOUT=${TIMEOUT} CFLAGS+= -DBOOTSEG=${BOOTSEG} -DBOOTSTACK=${BOOTSTACK} ! #CFLAGS+= -DDO_BAD144 CFLAGS+= -DVESA_SUPPORT CFLAGS+= -I${.CURDIR}/../../.. CFLAGS+= ${CWARNFLAGS} Index: boot.c =================================================================== RCS file: /code/FreeBSD/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/boot.c,v retrieving revision 1.70 diff -c -r1.70 boot.c *** boot.c 1998/02/01 05:24:24 1.70 --- boot.c 1998/02/02 20:28:25 *************** *** 61,71 **** --- 61,73 ---- #define BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE 512 #define BOOT_HELP_SIZE 2048 + #define BOOT_BANNER_SIZE 512 #define KERNEL_CONFIG_SIZE 512 #define NAMEBUF_LEN 1024 /* oversized to defend against gets() */ static char boot_config[BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE]; static char boot_help[BOOT_HELP_SIZE]; + static char boot_banner[BOOT_BANNER_SIZE]; #ifdef NAMEBLOCK char *dflt_name; #endif *************** *** 86,91 **** --- 88,95 ---- boot(int drive) { int ret; + char *boot_text = boot_banner; + char *boot_helpinfo = "For more information, type 'help'\n"; /* Pick up the story from the Bios on geometry of disks */ *************** *** 127,132 **** --- 131,146 ---- #ifndef RAWBOOT readfile("boot.config", boot_config, BOOT_CONFIG_SIZE); readfile("boot.help", boot_help, BOOT_HELP_SIZE); + readfile("boot.banner", boot_banner, BOOT_BANNER_SIZE); + if (boot_banner[0] == '\0') { + boot_text = boot_help; + boot_helpinfo = ""; + } else { + boot_text = boot_help; + if (boot_help[0] == '\0') + boot_helpinfo = ""; + } + #endif #ifdef NAMEBLOCK /* *************** *** 152,164 **** printf("\r \n>> FreeBSD BOOT @ 0x%x: %d/%d k of memory, %s%s console\n" "Boot default: %d:%s(%d,%c)%s\n" "%s\n" "boot: ", ouraddr, bootinfo.bi_basemem, bootinfo.bi_extmem, (loadflags & RB_SERIAL) ? "serial" : "internal", (loadflags & RB_DUAL) ? "/dual" : "", dosdev & 0x7f, devs[maj], unit, 'a' + part, name ? name : "*specify_a_kernel_name*", ! boot_help); /* * Ignore flags from previous attempted boot, if any. --- 166,179 ---- printf("\r \n>> FreeBSD BOOT @ 0x%x: %d/%d k of memory, %s%s console\n" "Boot default: %d:%s(%d,%c)%s\n" "%s\n" + "%s" "boot: ", ouraddr, bootinfo.bi_basemem, bootinfo.bi_extmem, (loadflags & RB_SERIAL) ? "serial" : "internal", (loadflags & RB_DUAL) ? "/dual" : "", dosdev & 0x7f, devs[maj], unit, 'a' + part, name ? name : "*specify_a_kernel_name*", ! boot_text, boot_helpinfo); /* * Ignore flags from previous attempted boot, if any. *************** *** 175,190 **** if (!gets(linebuf)) putchar('\n'); ! else getbootdev(linebuf, &loadflags); if (name == NULL) goto loadstart; ! ret = openrd(); ! if (ret != 0) { ! if (ret > 0) ! printf("Can't find %s\n", name); goto loadstart; - } /* if (inode.i_mode&IEXEC) loadflags |= RB_KDB; */ --- 190,207 ---- if (!gets(linebuf)) putchar('\n'); ! else if (!strcmp(linebuf, "help")) { ! if (boot_help[0] == '\0') ! printf( "No extended help available\n" ); ! boot_text = boot_help; ! boot_helpinfo = ""; ! goto loadstart; ! } else getbootdev(linebuf, &loadflags); if (name == NULL) goto loadstart; ! if (openrd() != 0) goto loadstart; /* if (inode.i_mode&IEXEC) loadflags |= RB_KDB; */ *************** *** 353,367 **** static void readfile(char *path, char *buf, size_t nbytes) { - int openstatus; - buf[0] = '\0'; name = path; ! openstatus = openrd(); ! if (openstatus != 0) { ! if (openstatus > 0) ! printf("Can't find file %s\n", name); ! } else { /* XXX no way to determine file size. */ read(buf, nbytes); } --- 370,378 ---- static void readfile(char *path, char *buf, size_t nbytes) { buf[0] = '\0'; name = path; ! if (openrd() == 0) { /* XXX no way to determine file size. */ read(buf, nbytes); } Index: sys.c =================================================================== RCS file: /code/FreeBSD/src/sys/i386/boot/biosboot/sys.c,v retrieving revision 1.21 diff -c -r1.21 sys.c *** sys.c 1997/06/09 05:10:56 1.21 --- sys.c 1998/02/02 19:56:39 *************** *** 302,309 **** \***********************************************/ ret = find(cp); name = cp; ! if (ret == 0) return 1; if (ret < 0) { name = NULL; return -1; --- 302,311 ---- \***********************************************/ ret = find(cp); name = cp; ! if (ret == 0) { ! printf( "Can't find %s\n", name ); return 1; + } if (ret < 0) { name = NULL; return -1; ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ade Lovett, Demon Internet, Austin, Texas. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 12:36:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05031 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from webserver.smginc.com (webserver.smginc.com [204.170.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04992; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from AdamT@smginc.com) Received: from smginc.com ([204.170.177.4]) by webserver.smginc.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13723) with SMTP id AAA278; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:38:12 -0500 Received: by smginc.com with Microsoft Mail id <34D657FB@smginc.com>; Mon, 02 Feb 98 15:34:19 PST From: Adam Turoff To: "'karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se'" , Ruslan Cc: hackers , config Subject: RE: Multi-faced admin Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 15:36:00 PST Message-ID: <34D657FB@smginc.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Sez Mikael Karpberg: > According to Ruslan Shevchenko: > > > Looking at Mikael Karpberg page on his architecture for admin'ing a > > > FreeBSD > > Please, can you give URL ? > > Er, cool. I didn't know I had such a page ;-) D'OH! I think I lost too many brain cells this weekend. Not only am I using a dain-bread mailer, but I'm doing the job it is supposed to be doing rather poorly. :-) The page I was referring to was actually your's Ruslan: ftp://cam.grad.kiev.ua/pub/admin.tgz That kind of explains why you're not to fond of COAG.... [Now that the topic has been brought up again, let's not misunderstand anymore. I glossed over both Ruslan's page and the COAG page. The COAG page has much more gloss, and upon a cursory examination I thought we should look into it a bit more deeply. I didn't take the time to look at the architecture, but, as Ruslan suggests, if it's a piece of crap, we should at the very least take their architecture as an example and not make the same bugs. :-) ] > Seriously, though, I think Alex has his terms all screwed up. Probably > silly enough to use a brower to send mails, and mixes up pages and mails. > I sent a suggestion to hackers@FreeBSD.ORG and config@FreeBSD.ORG, and > that's all I did. I probably deserve that slip (Don't want to have anyone confuse Alex with me. I'm the one fighting with a stupid mailer! And, no, I'm not using a browser, I'm using the worst mailer in Corporate America - Microsoft Outlook. I'll switch my mailing list subscriptions to Eudora or somesuch when I get enough tuits.) Sorry if I started any confusion here, Mikael and Ruslan. -- Adam. PS: D'OH! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 13:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12068 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:31:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA11855 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xzTR8-0004y9-00; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:29:50 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA15608; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:29:56 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802022129.OAA15608@harmony.village.org> To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav) Subject: Re: Weekly hangs Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "02 Feb 1998 15:04:20 +0100." References: <199801312114.OAA05397@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:29:55 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In message Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav writes: : Sounds like bad SIMMs to me... But I have swapped out the SIMMs several times. And it seems to only happen when I run out of SWAP, not out of physical memory.... I'll try swapping out more SIMMs, but I'm not sure that is it. Other options? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 14:04:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17507 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:04:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from regina.ibs-us.net (regina.ibs-us.net [208.131.3.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17424 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:04:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmr@ibs-us.net) Received: from tech.ibs-us.net ([208.131.3.10]) by regina.ibs-us.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09076; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:09:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <004801bd3027$d71cf960$0a0383d0@tech.ibs-us.net> From: "Chad Ross" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Weekly hangs Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:13:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" >In message Dag-Erling Coidan Sm rgrav writes: >: Sounds like bad SIMMs to me... > >But I have swapped out the SIMMs several times. And it seems to only >happen when I run out of SWAP, not out of physical memory.... > >I'll try swapping out more SIMMs, but I'm not sure that is it. > >Other options? > >Warner Hello Warner, To me it sounds like your swap partition is bad or corrupted. I'm currently new to FreeBSD, "YES another diehard linux guy converted!", as a OS but on the linux operating system I came into a few times were I had a corrupted swap partition. I would simply turn swapping off, remake the swap, and turn it back on.... But I have no idea on how to do that for FreeBSD at this time... :) Regardless I would certainly look into your swap partition as the source of your problems. Chad Ross International Business Software, Inc. 221 NW Second, Suite 221 Portland, OR 97209-3960 Phone: (503) 227-7010 Fax: (503) 227-5778 Email: cmr@ibs-us.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 14:39:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23734 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:39:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23643 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24553; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:55:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:55:08 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Belits To: Adam Turoff cc: Terry Lambert , hackers Subject: RE: WebAdmin In-Reply-To: <34D6373B@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > > its actions as long as the client uses HTTP. > > Standardizing on HTTP as a client/server interface between multiple > clients has a lot of possibilities. First, we start with a well defined > API > to write the server side bits (the admin component subset will require > more structure than generic CGI), and the client side starts out with > a well defined API that's mostly implemented in almost any language > today. > > However, I'm concerned that HTTP 1.0 is a stateless protocol, and that > it's pretty much nothing more than a NFS with remote execution. HTTP > 1.1, > once everything supports it sufficiently, will handle the stateless part > with > keep-alive that actually works. Remote administration is stateless outside the boundaries of transaction. State that should be kept on the server outside the boundaries of transactions doesn't have to be kept on client, too, and Keep-Alive / persistent connections shouldn't be used for anything but decreasing response time. Neither HTTP 1.0 nor 1.1 have any means for sessions support -- sessions, if they are necessary, *need* identifiers, passed between server and client, however in the case of remote administration there are no sessions outside of already atomic transactions. > > Then there's also the question of security. Running a bunch of scripts > that create users and such against Apache is not secure. Picking a port > other than 80 or 8080 and possibly using SSL on it is marginally better. > > Since we're talking about system security, it sounds like we need a > better security model to establish connections than straight https. I'm > guessing writing a new httpd from existing libraries (or hacking Apache > to run as admind with a different authentication module) would have a > better > login model than standard httpd would solve this concern, hopefully > once and for all. HTTP "Basic" authentication over encrypted channel (ssh forwarding) is very secure unless server compromises it by its design. Running CGIs and Apache modules creates some (solvable) security problems, however CGI and Apache modules system are far from the perfect solution for this -- I wrote my own HTTP server with different interface to modules/processes exactly because the CGI or Apache modules system cut too many corners in the protocol and API design. > Once that issue can be settled, the next step is standardizing on a > remote call interface. This could be as simple as coming up with > a standard set of name=value pairs that both the client and server > would understand, or doing something a little more complex and > having the client perform resource discovery to see what the server > can do. I'd lean towards the latter, since it allows a much finer grain > of tuning for the sysadmin - i.e. let anyone log in and change their > shell, but only let root change a password and don't let anyone > change crontab. This is mostly a question of backend implementation. My idea is that filesystem-like hierarchy or URLs with lists of key-value pairs for data provides suitable way of assressing requests/changes, and permissions can be applied based on it, if necessary. -- Alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 14:46:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25792 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:46:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25013 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:43:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0xzUZv-000507-00; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:42:59 -0700 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA16015 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:43:06 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802022243.PAA16015@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: Weekly hangs To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:29:55 MST." <199802022129.OAA15608@harmony.village.org> References: <199802022129.OAA15608@harmony.village.org> <199801312114.OAA05397@harmony.village.org> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:43:06 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In message <199802022129.OAA15608@harmony.village.org> Warner Losh writes: : But I have swapped out the SIMMs several times. And it seems to only : happen when I run out of SWAP, not out of physical memory.... : : I'll try swapping out more SIMMs, but I'm not sure that is it. : : Other options? I'd like to also point out that this is the second machine to exhibit this problem. The other was a 386 running 1.1.5.1R. The only common hardware between the two machines is three USR sportster internal modems and one Supra. I kinda doubt the modems are causing the problem since I can reproduce it at will with certain man commands. I have some down time scheduled for this box soon... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 15:01:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00398 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:01:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA28730 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:58:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from ragnet.demon.co.uk ([158.152.46.40]) by post.mail.demon.net id ab2027088; 2 Feb 98 20:44 GMT Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.73 #1) id 0xzShk-0002du-00; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:42:56 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:42:54 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Revamping /etc/daily, weekly, monthly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Does anyone have any comments on my re-vamp of /etc/daily and friends, if you rememeber it was called bev? The original thread provoked some discussion so someone must care! It's available from http://www.ragnet.demon.co.uk/bev.tar.gz or http://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/bev-0.1.tar.gz unpack this and then dump the files in /etc, and change the /etc/crontab file as directed. Local files can be set-up without hacking on bev itself. Examples of bev.conf.local and bev.local are provided. I haven't implemented any of the extras to cron to enable catching up of missed runs. From earlier discussions that is really orthogonal to what I am trying to do. I have been running it for a few weeks now and it works. I am going to write a man page in the style of rc.conf(5) over the next week and then submit the whole thing as a PR (baring any negative replies or suggestions for improvments). Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 15:39:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07969 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:39:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07721 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:37:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17188; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:38:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802022338.PAA17188@implode.root.com> To: Warner Losh cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Weekly hangs In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:43:06 MST." <199802022243.PAA16015@harmony.village.org> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:38:38 -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" >In message <199802022129.OAA15608@harmony.village.org> Warner Losh writes: >: But I have swapped out the SIMMs several times. And it seems to only >: happen when I run out of SWAP, not out of physical memory.... >: >: I'll try swapping out more SIMMs, but I'm not sure that is it. >: >: Other options? > >I'd like to also point out that this is the second machine to exhibit >this problem. The other was a 386 running 1.1.5.1R. The only common 1.1.5.1R was full of serious bugs that would cause all sorts of problems - not to mention having a different code base. I don't think it is useful to use it as a comparison. -DG David Greenman Core-team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 16:57:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19978 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:57:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whqvax.picker.com (whqvax.picker.com [144.54.1.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA19972 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:57:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rhh@ct.picker.com) Received: from ct.picker.com by whqvax.picker.com with SMTP; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:55:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from elmer.ct.picker.com by ct.picker.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18709; Mon, 2 Feb 98 17:54:59 EST Received: by elmer.ct.picker.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA27797; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:54:47 -0500 Message-Id: <19980202175446.23614@ct.picker.com> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:54:46 -0500 From: Randall Hopper To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tertiary IDE -- Detect Solved References: <19980202073937.25578@ct.picker.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980202073937.25578@ct.picker.com>; from Randall Hopper on Mon, Feb 02, 1998 at 07:39:37AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Randall Hopper: |***** 2. SECOND TRY: ***** |controller wdc2 at isa? port 0x1e8 bio irq 11 flags 0xa0ffa004 vector wdintr |disk wd4 at wdc2 drive 0 ... |***** 3. THIRD TRY: ***** |Touched up the generated ioconf.c and replaced the "(null)" in the corrupt |isa_biotab_wdc[] entry: | |{ -1, &wdcdriver, (null), IRQ11, -1, C 0x00000, 0, wdintr, 4, 0x0000, | 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0 }, | |with the correct port number for the teriary controller ("0x1e8"). | |This kernel did build, but wouldn't detect wdc2 when I booted it up. The detect failure was my bust. After the kernel-build workarounds, and once I reconfigured the drive as a master instead of a slave :-), the old Conner 540Meg now hanging off of my Sound Blaster 32's Tertiary IDE port probed and mounted like a champ: wdc2 at 0x1e8-0x1ef irq 11 flags 0xa0ffa004 on isa wdc2: unit 0 (wd4): , multi-block-4 wd4: 515MB (1056384 sectors), 1048 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S Randall From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 16:58:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20133 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:58:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (root@libya-207.ppp.hooked.net [206.169.227.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20058 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00398; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:41:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:41:20 -0800 (PST) From: Alex X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: Didier Derny cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: egcs and Qt? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Didier Derny wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alex wrote: > > I've been able to port qt-1.32 (directly take from the www.troll.no > web site) without any problem. > > the only things was: > > install the qt distribution in /usr/local/qt > set the variables according to the INSTALL file > I'm not sure but it seems that it needs the following > environment variable to be defined > > QTDIR=/usr/local/qt > CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=/usr/local/qt/include > LD_LIBARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib > LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/qt/lib > export QTDIR CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH LD_LIBRARY_PATH LIBRARY_PATH > > cd /usr/local/qt > > make freebsd-shared > > in /etc/rc add a line to load the shared library at boot time > for example, copy the /usr/local/lib line and replace qt were it's > needed. (reboot or execut ldconfig with the right paths) > > use gmake instead of make > > You should be able to build qt without any problems. > > [after I rebuilt kde without any real problems] > I've never tried with egcs ^^^^^^^^^ That's my problem. It works with fsf gcc 2.7.2, but not with egcs or later fsf gccs. Linux: The Microsoft Windows(tm) of the Unix(tm) world. - alex From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 18:45:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:45:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kinclaith.pdl.cs.cmu.edu (KINCLAITH.PDL.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.189.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA07032 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:45:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dpetrou@kinclaith.pdl.cs.cmu.edu) Message-Id: <199802030245.SAA07032@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Q: MIDI support in FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:44:26 -0500 (EST) From: David Petrou X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-40] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi. I'm trying to get /dev/midi0 working in FreeBSD 2.2.5 but am failing. I added the following lines to my kernel config: controller snd0 device mpu0 at isa? port 0x330 irq 5 drq 0 After rebuilding, reinstalling, and rebooting, I see the following in my dmesg: mpu0 at 0x330 irq 5 drq 0 on isa mpu0: Then I did a 'MAKEDEV snd0' to create a variety of devices. But, when I try to open() /dev/midi0, I get errno = 19 (Operation not supported by device). Whenever I do these opens, the following line gets printed to console: SoundCard Error: The soundcard system has not been configured After looking through the code a bit, I see that this message is printed when soundcard_configured (in soundcard.c) equals 0. Strangely, from what I can see, soundcard_configured gets set to one via a call to sndattach() during isa device initialization. Another thing: it seems like the sound driver code, VoxWare v3.0, is 1995 code. Is there a newer version of VoxWare? Has anyone ported the newer version to FreeBSD? If not, I may give it a try. Also, there's a comment at the bottom of sound.doc that reads "NOTE: The MPU-401 driver may or may not work, and is unfortunately unverifiable since no one I know has one." Has anyone out there gotten the MPU-401 code to work? Last thing: It looks like http://www.4front-tech.com sells sound drivers, including an MPU-401 driver, for FreeBSD. Anyone have experience with these? I'd prefer a free, source solution, naturally... Thanks, David From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 18:55:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08573 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:55:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.carroll.com (zeus.carroll.com [199.224.10.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08527 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:54:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jim@carroll.com) Received: from apollo.carroll.com [199.224.10.3] by zeus.carroll.com with ESMTP (8.8.5/0) id VAA18607; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:54:38 -0500 Received: by apollo.carroll.com (8.8.5) is VAA29850; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:54:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:54:35 -0500 From: Jim Carroll To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: wd0s1e hard errors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 Can someone point me towards a man page, FAQ, book or other reference that would describe what I can do about the above sort of error? I have looked over the bad144 docs, but it appears this software is considered obsolete. Unfortuantely, I cannot figure out what is it's contemporary replacement. Thanks --- Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. 201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider www.carroll.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 19:09:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA11105 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:09:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11096 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:09:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA25528; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:38:33 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802030308.NAA25528@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jim Carroll cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0s1e hard errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:54:35 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:38:32 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I have looked over the bad144 docs, but it appears this software is > considered obsolete. Unfortuantely, I cannot figure out what is it's > contemporary replacement. Try badsect.. Its actually useful :) It allocates blocks at the areas on the disk you specify and places them in dummy files.. You can use bad144 to find the dodgy sectors on your disk. (It will search for them). Good luck.. --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 22:15:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00735 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:15:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lamb.sas.com (root@lamb.sas.com [192.35.83.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00728 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:15:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jwd@unx.sas.com) Received: from mozart (markham.southpeak.com [192.58.185.8]) by lamb.sas.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA03841 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from iluvatar.unx.sas.com by mozart (5.65c/SAS/Domains/5-6-90) id AA07430; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:15:20 -0500 From: "John W. DeBoskey" Received: by iluvatar.unx.sas.com (5.65c/SAS/Generic 9.01/3-26-93) id AA04007; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:15:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199802030615.AA04007@iluvatar.unx.sas.com> Subject: NFS V3 caching question (nfs_bio.c) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:15:19 -0500 (EST) Cc: jwd@unx.sas.com (John W. DeBoskey) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hello, I am attempting to figure out why nfs v3 caching doesn't seem to be giving me the performance boost I'm looking for. One of the items I've discovered is that the tail end (or lack thereof for even blksize multiple files) of a file doesn't seem to be cached. In a shell script, I am repeatedly cat'ing an an 8k file which I would expect to be cached. (Yes, I am talking nfs v3 to a network appliance F540). cd /net/netapp/home/jwd for i in 1 2 3 4 etc; do cat base/h/8k.h > /dev/null nfsstat | while read line; do ... collect & output stats ... done done Between each cat, as seen above, I call 'nfsstat' and gather the Attr & BioR Hit/Miss numbers. The output follows: Attr Hits Misses Pct BioR Hits Misses Pct 204 43 21 12 27 225 221 46 20 13 29 223 238 49 20 14 31 221 255 52 20 15 33 220 272 55 20 16 35 218 289 58 20 17 37 217 306 61 19 18 39 216 323 64 19 19 41 215 340 67 19 20 43 215 357 70 19 21 45 214 374 73 19 22 47 213 391 76 19 23 49 213 ^^ ^^ 3 attr misses? 2 cache misses? I added a couple of printf() statements to nfs_bioread() in nfs_bio.c to help understand why I'm seeing the Misses. nfs_bio.c: offset 0 not in cache! bp->b_blkno==0 nfs_bio.c: offset 0 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 not in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 not in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 0 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==0 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 not in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 not in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 nfs_bio.c: offset 8192 was in cache! bp->b_blkno==1 Well, offset 0 for 8k appears to be cached correctly. I do not understand (yet, I'm working on it) why we are even attempting to read bp->b_blkno==1 since it doesn't exist. Yes, the file is 8k. -rw-r--r-- 1 jwd jwd 8192 Feb 2 20:47 /net/netapp/home/jwd/8k.h Any comments (helpful) or critiques (telling me I'm looking in the wrong place) are welcome. Thanks, John ps: If the file size is 8193, then block numbers 0 & 1 are always cached, but the last block, 2, for 1 byte length, is never found in the cache. pss: I almost think I'm looking for a bad length comparison. -- jwd@unx.sas.com (w) John W. De Boskey (919) 677-8000 x6915 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 22:54:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA04671 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:54:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (root@fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04666 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:54:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA08131; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:50:22 GMT Message-Id: <199802030250.CAA08131@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: "Jim Carroll" , Subject: Re: wd0s1e hard errors Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:43:58 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" your drive is failing(bad sectors most likely), back it up ASAP and get a replacement. -Alfred ---------- > From: Jim Carroll > To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: wd0s1e hard errors > Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 9:54 PM > > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > > Can someone point me towards a man page, FAQ, book or other reference that > would describe what I can do about the above sort of error? > > I have looked over the bad144 docs, but it appears this software is > considered obsolete. Unfortuantely, I cannot figure out what is it's > contemporary replacement. > > Thanks > > --- > Jim C., President | C A R R O L L - N E T, Inc. > 201-488-1332 | New Jersey's Premier Internet Service Provider > www.carroll.com | > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 2 23:34:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA09172 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:34:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA09150 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:34:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA25124; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:02:59 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 19:02:58 +0100 (MET) To: Nate Williams Cc: Warner Losh , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? References: <199801301658.JAA26173@harmony.village.org> <199801301957.MAA17366@mt.sri.com> <199802021747.KAA27920@mt.sri.com> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 02 Feb 1998 19:02:57 +0100 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams's message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:47:48 -0700" Message-ID: Lines: 21 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Nate Williams writes: > > Nate Williams writes: > > > # make obj && make depend && make && make install > > 'make obj depend all install' oughta be enough for anyone. > Actually, no. Would you care to elaborate? :) The general idea is that you want to make each of these targets, in order, and stop everything if one of them fails. Doesn't 'make obj depend all install' do just that? Or is there a problem with dependencies not being re-read after being regenerated or someting like that? I usually (and successfully) do 'make depend all install' to rebuild my kernel... -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 00:02:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14784 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:02:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14779 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:02:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from ross.jrc.it (ross.jrc.it [139.191.72.32]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA29740; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:02:03 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:02:01 +0100 (MET) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@ross.jrc.it Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: "John W. DeBoskey" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NFS V3 caching question (nfs_bio.c) In-Reply-To: <199802030615.AA04007@iluvatar.unx.sas.com> Message-ID: Reply-Path: Nick.Hibma@jrc.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" . Well, offset 0 for 8k appears to be cached correctly. I do not .understand (yet, I'm working on it) why we are even attempting to .read bp->b_blkno==1 since it doesn't exist. Yes, the file is 8k. . .-rw-r--r-- 1 jwd jwd 8192 Feb 2 20:47 /net/netapp/home/jwd/8k.h . . Any comments (helpful) or critiques (telling me I'm looking in the .wrong place) are welcome. . .ps: If the file size is 8193, then block numbers 0 & 1 are always . cached, but the last block, 2, for 1 byte length, is never . found in the cache. . .pss: I almost think I'm looking for a bad length comparison. No, but probably you expect the EOF detection in the wrong place. The cache caches data but obviously not the EOF (=error condition on reading last block). At least it does not tell you that it found an EOF. Did you snoop on the wire to see if a request for that last block leaves your system? Would be interested to see the answer. Nick ME-SAI, Joint Research Centre, Italy building: 69 tel.: +39 332 78 9943 fax.: +39 332 78 9648 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 03:51:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA09775 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:51:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (oskar.nanoteq.co.za [196.37.91.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA09701 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:50:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) id NAA10992; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:48:24 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199802031148.NAA10992@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-Reply-To: from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= at "Feb 2, 98 06:13:47 pm" To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:47:09 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > You will gain *nothing* by overclocking your 120 or 133 MHz Pentium to > 150 MHz. > If I clock it at 75MHz bus and x2 CPU at 150MHz :) (if the Mainboard is wiling) Just a thought :) Reinier From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 04:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12938 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:08:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp10.portal.net.au [202.12.71.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12932 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:08:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01284; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:07:38 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802030437.PAA01284@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Chad Ross" cc: xzp1zxmcdcr.fsf@grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Remaking swap partitions (was Re: Weekly hangs ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:13:44 -0800." <004801bd3027$d71cf960$0a0383d0@tech.ibs-us.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:07:37 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I'm currently new to FreeBSD, "YES another diehard linux guy converted!", > as a OS but on the linux operating system I came into a few times were > I had a corrupted swap partition. I would simply turn swapping off, remake > the swap, and turn it back on.... But I have no idea on how to do that for > FreeBSD at this time... :) That's because FreeBSD doesn't require any "formatting" of the swap partition. It simply exists. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 04:15:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA13877 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:15:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA13716 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:15:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19095; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:11:36 GMT Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:13:40 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome X-Sender: steve@dylan To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-Reply-To: <199802031148.NAA10992@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Reinier Bezuidenhout wrote: > > You will gain *nothing* by overclocking your 120 or 133 MHz Pentium to > > 150 MHz. > > > > If I clock it at 75MHz bus and x2 CPU at 150MHz :) (if the Mainboard is > wiling) Yes, but will your IDE devices still work properly ? Will your ISA cards still function, will your PCI cards work properly? Will the memory timings now be too fast ? etc. etc. In short, is it really worth the risk when you could probably just buy a P233MMX for whatever money you could make in the time it takes to mess with the jumpers and then recover all your data when your hard disk blows up and the processor melts. > Just a thought :) Same here, seems a lot of people overclock without the 'thought' that it could cause problems. steve Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 04:26:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA15591 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:26:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oskar.nanoteq.co.za (www.absadirect.co.za [196.37.91.10] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA15489 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rbezuide@oskar.nanoteq.co.za) Received: (from rbezuide@localhost) by oskar.nanoteq.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA12169; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:23:40 +0200 (SAT) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199802031223.OAA12169@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-Reply-To: from Stephen Roome at "Feb 3, 98 12:13:40 pm" To: steve@visint.co.uk (Stephen Roome) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:22:24 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > Yes, but will your IDE devices still work properly ? Will your ISA cards > still function, will your PCI cards work properly? Will the memory > timings now be too fast ? etc. etc. > > In short, is it really worth the risk when you could probably just buy a > P233MMX for whatever money you could make in the time it takes to mess > with the jumpers and then recover all your data when your hard disk > blows up and the processor melts. > I've been running my 166MMX machine at 75Mhz and CPU at 187MHz for the last month now and I did several "make world"s on the machine to check it's stability. It's my machine at work :) so its not that easy just to ask for a 233MHz machine, so you try to squeeze everything out of it that you can :) Oh ... and all the important data is on a server :) Reinier From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 04:40:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA17542 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:40:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (ppp8.portal.net.au [202.12.71.108]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA17534 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:40:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03576; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:03:35 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802031233.XAA03576@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Jim Carroll cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0s1e hard errors In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:54:35 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:03:35 +1030 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > wd0s1e: hard error reading fsbn 721266 of 721264-721279 (wd0s1 bn 1057138; cn 262 tn 11 sn 61)wd0: status 59 error 40 > > > Can someone point me towards a man page, FAQ, book or other reference that > would describe what I can do about the above sort of error? Replace the disk ASAP. If you are seeing hard errors, the disk has run out of spare (forwarding) sectors, and it's on the way out. You can mount a disk forced, readonly, under these circumstances in order to copy stuff off it. > I have looked over the bad144 docs, but it appears this software is > considered obsolete. Unfortuantely, I cannot figure out what is it's > contemporary replacement. Bad sector management has moved largely into the drive logic, where it can be performed transparently. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 05:03:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA20713 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wakko.visint.co.uk (wakko.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA20701 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:03:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from steve@visint.co.uk) Received: from dylan (dylan.visint.co.uk [194.207.134.180]) by wakko.visint.co.uk (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19333; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:02:18 GMT Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:04:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Stephen Roome X-Sender: steve@dylan To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 In-Reply-To: <199802031223.OAA12169@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Reinier Bezuidenhout wrote: > > Yes, but will your IDE devices still work properly ? Will your ISA cards > > still function, will your PCI cards work properly? Will the memory > > timings now be too fast ? etc. etc. > > > > In short, is it really worth the risk when you could probably just buy a > > P233MMX for whatever money you could make in the time it takes to mess > > with the jumpers and then recover all your data when your hard disk > > blows up and the processor melts. > > > > I've been running my 166MMX machine at 75Mhz and CPU at 187MHz for > the last month now and I did several "make world"s on the machine > to check it's stability. It's my machine at work :) so its not > that easy just to ask for a 233MHz machine, so you try to squeeze > everything out of it that you can :) Oh ... and all the > important data is on a server :) I'll try it on my home machine, but I think you probably know what I mean about people not taking much care before overclocking. My computer here at work is a 150 running at 166, it's been like this for over a year without any obvious overclocking related problems. [During the first few weeks I backed up my data more slightly more regularly!] Although it's not overclocked much, and it's just the processor, not the bus, isn't it still worth excercising some caution ? steve Steve Roome - Vision Interactive Ltd. Tel:+44(0)117 9730597 Home:+44(0)976 241342 WWW: http://dylan.visint.co.uk/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 05:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA27609 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:52:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA27496 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:51:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id OAA25127; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:51:40 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:51:39 +0100 (MET) To: Reinier Bezuidenhout Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Overclocking a Pentium 120 References: <199802031148.NAA10992@oskar.nanoteq.co.za> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 03 Feb 1998 14:51:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Reinier Bezuidenhout's message of "Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:47:09 +0200 (SAT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Reinier Bezuidenhout writes: > > You will gain *nothing* by overclocking your 120 or 133 MHz Pentium to > > 150 MHz. > If I clock it at 75MHz bus and x2 CPU at 150MHz :) (if the Mainboard is > wiling) In that case you are also overclocking your memory, cache, motherboard chipset and all your PCI devices. It may work, and then again it may not. Perhaps we should keep this discussion off -hackers? -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 05:55:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA28047 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:55:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fiber.org (root@fruit.n.fiber.org [205.218.4.212]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA28041 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:55:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from std@fruit.n.fiber.org) Received: from fruit.n.fiber.org (std@oranges [10.0.0.2]) by fiber.org (8.8.8/8.8.8/BIGbewtyh0ez) with ESMTP id HAA20513 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:49:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from std@fruit.n.fiber.org) Message-ID: <34D6CEEE.445F8080@fruit.n.fiber.org> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:01:50 +0000 From: Jeremy Kraft X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sound Card Trouble. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I was wondering if anybody has gotten a Sound Blaster 16 PnP card successfully working in FreeBSD-2.2.5R. Here is what i have in my kernel: device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 conflicts drq 1 vector sbintr and this in a dmesg: sb0 at 0x220 irq 7 drq 1 on isa sb0: which again, (to me) looks ok. now, when i try to say, use mpg123 to play a .mp3, it gives me this: No supported audio format found! Thanks for the help. -- Jeremy Kraft From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 06:26:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02289 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:26:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA02272 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:26:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA05993; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:55:12 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802031255.NAA05993@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Sound Card Trouble. To: std@fruit.n.fiber.org (Jeremy Kraft) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:55:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34D6CEEE.445F8080@fruit.n.fiber.org> from "Jeremy Kraft" at Feb 3, 98 08:01:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I was wondering if anybody has gotten a Sound Blaster 16 PnP card > successfully working > in FreeBSD-2.2.5R. Here is what i have in my kernel: > device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 7 conflicts drq 1 vector sbintr I think you should also add a line like device sbxvi0 ... to have proper 16-bit support. Or, you could always fetch my audio driver from http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/FreeBSD.html cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 06:58:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA06096 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:58:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obiwan.creative.net.au (obiwan.creative.net.au [203.56.168.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA06051 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from adrian@obiwan.creative.net.au) Received: from localhost (adrian@localhost) by obiwan.creative.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00374 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:57:41 +0800 (WST) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:57:41 +0800 (WST) From: Adrian Chadd To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: WebAdmin In-Reply-To: <34D6373B@smginc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: > Standardizing on HTTP as a client/server interface between multiple > clients has a lot of possibilities. First, we start with a well defined > API > to write the server side bits (the admin component subset will require > more structure than generic CGI), and the client side starts out with > a well defined API that's mostly implemented in almost any language > today. > > However, I'm concerned that HTTP 1.0 is a stateless protocol, and that > it's pretty much nothing more than a NFS with remote execution. HTTP > 1.1, > once everything supports it sufficiently, will handle the stateless part > with > keep-alive that actually works. > Depends. ? I've written a couple of web-based SQL databases, and I have been able to sucessfully encode enough state into the webpages themselves to make the databases useable and stable. > Then there's also the question of security. Running a bunch of scripts > that create users and such against Apache is not secure. Picking a port > other than 80 or 8080 and possibly using SSL on it is marginally better. > Possibly. But then SSL on port 80 would be more than enough. Just verify the 'admin' user somehow using the root users' password (THAT is going to be a fun thing to do.. :) and it will make it a hell of a lot easier to manage. Saves having one root password, then another for web admin, and having to synch them together. Users will forget ;) > Once that issue can be settled, the next step is standardizing on a > remote call interface. This could be as simple as coming up with > a standard set of name=value pairs that both the client and server > would understand, or doing something a little more complex and > having the client perform resource discovery to see what the server > can do. I'd lean towards the latter, since it allows a much finer grain > of tuning for the sysadmin - i.e. let anyone log in and change their > shell, but only let root change a password and don't let anyone > change crontab. > I'd be more inclined initally to auth people out of the password database, yes. Custom httpd would be nice to do this. :) That way, what you say above would be nice. Users can configure their own settings via the web, although I dont' see this having much use outside the local box anyway. > > In other words, one can use any browser or proxy or another > > server program that replicates its configuration or custom-made client > > program, and the transactions model won't be broken if the server uses > it. > > If the server doesn't care about transactions (plain CGIs with no > > locking), transactions support won't magically appear, but IMHO it's > > reasonable to keep the requirements to server higher than ones to the > > clients. > > Yes, keeping the server requirements higher than client requirements > is a reasonable decision. But transactioning should not be something > to ignore. If at the very least journaling wasn't supported, this system > would be friendly but risky to use - kinda like NT. :-) I'm sure many other people have done this. I don't think you have to worry too much about 'locking' and so forth, as there SHOULD only be one admin user doing stuff at one time. But if the scripts are written right, with the right information embedded in the HTML, you'll be safe. -- Adrian Chadd | "I used to be thin, handsome and smart. | Then I discovered UNIX." | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 07:46:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA12169 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:46:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.cs.tcd.ie (relay.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.32.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12133 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:46:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from careilly@monoid.cs.tcd.ie) Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (monoid.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.38.99]) by relay.cs.tcd.ie (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10889; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:46:18 GMT Received: from monoid.cs.tcd.ie (localhost.my.domain [127.0.0.1]) by monoid.cs.tcd.ie (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16355; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:42:13 GMT Message-Id: <199802031542.PAA16355@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> To: Adrian Chadd Reply-To: config@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: WebAdmin X-Address: Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. X-Phone: +353-(0)1-6081321 In-reply-to: Message from Adrian Chadd dated today at 22:57. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <16350.886520530.1@monoid.cs.tcd.ie> Content-Description: text Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:42:11 +0000 From: Colman Reilly Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" [Please redirect this to freebsd-config] On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Adam Turoff wrote: Depends. ? I've written a couple of web-based SQL databases, and I have been able to sucessfully encode enough state into the webpages themselves to make the databases useable and stable. Sure. Now remember we have to assume that people will be attempting to exploit the admin system as a security hole. We can't trust any state coming from a HTTP connection. > Then there's also the question of security. Running a bunch of scripts > that create users and such against Apache is not secure. Picking a port > other than 80 or 8080 and possibly using SSL on it is marginally better. > Possibly. But then SSL on port 80 would be more than enough. Enough for what? How many bits of SSL? [Lot's of fine talk deleted] Look at Mike Smiths juliet stuff. Look at my thoughts on Portia/security stuff. Look at the mail archives on this topic. I'd really like to see people cooperating on this with a well thought out structure rather than see three sets of people head out into space. Juliet is at: http://www.smith.net.au/~mike/freebsd.html My stuff is at: http://www.cs.tcd.ie/~careilly/Portia/ Colman From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 07:59:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA13612 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:59:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (root@aries.bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA13594; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:59:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA05063; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:50:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Coleman To: Mikael Karpberg cc: Adam Turoff , mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit In-Reply-To: <199802011910.UAA15937@ocean.campus.luth.se> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > text like "press ESC to see probing messages", or whatever, down in a > corner somewhere. The other virtual screens should be available with a > login prompt where you could log in as root without password, so that > people like us that's been there before can go in and do stuff on the > side. > > Here you are able to set most things you will want to set, preferably > even here with a special "advanced" choise, or having "advanced" choises > for each thing you do, where it's needed (just like Win95 does it). I liked everything up until the reboot. :-( Win95 reboots so many times, that it takes hours of time trying to install. I really like the idea of having an "automated" feature. (wish win95 had one) where you could enter in all the information in a few basic screens and then just leave it. When you come back, its installed and rebooted waiting at the the login prompt. FreeBSD almost does this. (you would have to remove the floppy before leaving). It would stop only on critical errors, and log the rest. Otherwise it would be real easy to install a basic system. > So... Comments on this, anyone? :-) > > /Mikael > > Just my $.02 Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 09:31:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00345 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:31:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (dsiegel@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00340 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:31:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dave@rtd.net) Received: (from dsiegel@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA12904; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:28:18 -0700 (MST) From: Dave Siegel Message-Id: <199802031728.KAA12904@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: natd "strangness".. In-Reply-To: <199802020301.WAA02139@lakes.dignus.com> from Thomas David Rivers at "Feb 1, 98 10:01:27 pm" To: rivers@dignus.com (Thomas David Rivers) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:28:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I've done this by running netscape on both machines, pointing to the > same sight. The netscape running on 'ponds' will get to the site just > fine, while the one on 'lakes' will bail out after some time indicating > the server wasn't working... this is especially true for something like, > an audio stream for example. > The symptom is that a large "something" (graphics, audio, etc....) > takes much longer, or is even impossible to receive, on 'lakes' - while > it works just fine on 'ponds'... at exactly the same time. I'm no expert on the NAT stuff, but the symptoms that you describe sound exactly like what happens when hosts don't handle fragmentation and reassembly well. I remember early versions of linux (~1993) behaving in this way. It's possible that the NAT code isn't dealing with fragmented packets (which you get a lot of on a SLIP line, especially if you use the default MTU size). My guess is that natd was tested largely on ethernet's, running behind a T1 gateway or higher. If this is what's really happening, you can minimize the impact by increasing MTU on both sides of the SLIP link, particularly your upstream (ISP?). Have them change from the default of 256 to 1400 or so. This will slow down interactive stuff (telnet) but should speed up browsing, ftp's, etc. The theory here is that fewer packets will be fragmented, so you should have a higher success rate. Dave -- Dave Siegel dave@rtd.net Network Engineer dave@pager.rtd.com (alpha pager) (520)579-0450 (home office) http://www.rtd.com/~dsiegel/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 09:43:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02298 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:43:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns0.aid.co.uk (ns0.aid.co.uk [195.134.10.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00793; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:34:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marc@netvillage.co.uk) Received: from marc.netvillage.co.uk ([195.134.26.2]) by ns0.aid.co.uk (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA1651; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:24:49 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Marc P Summers" To: couk2@thecompetitionpage.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:23:14 +0000 X-Distribution: Bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Static Web-Site or Dynamic Marketing Tool Reply-to: info@the-competition-page.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Message-ID: <19980203162128.AAA1651@marc.netvillage.co.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi The fact that you've opened this e-mail means that you quite correctly consider a web site to mean more than just a static advertisement. How would you like all visitors to your web site to enter a competition to win $500 (350 UK Pounds) each and every month? And how would you like to receive the name, address, contact details and relevant marketing information from every visitor to your site? How much would you pay for this valuable service? 1,000 (UK Pounds) a month, 2,000 (UK Pounds) a month. Try 15 (UK Pounds) a month. Interested? Visit http://www.the-competition-page.com and find out how you can turn your static web site into a powerful marketing tool for only 15 (UK Pounds) a month. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to read this important message. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 10:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07210 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cyberrealm.net (mail.cyberrealm.net [205.130.248.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07115 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:13:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julie4456@juno.com) From: julie4456@juno.com Received: from 38.11.203.222 (ip222.amarillo.tx.pub-ip.psi.net [38.11.203.222]) by mail.cyberrealm.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA28851 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:11:00 GMT Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:11:00 GMT Received: (from uudp@lcllhost!) by in2.i_b_m.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id CFF569794 for ; Sun, 18 May 1997 01:12:39 GMT Received: from tomsnet!.com (mh.tomsnet!.com [100.301.57.69]) by m4.tomsnet!.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA21932 Received: from reb50.rs40_date.net (root@reb50.rs_date.net [289.36.1.176]) by tomsnet!.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PBA023891 for ; Received: (from capt_domo@lclhost!) by pc.spark_er.net (8.7.3/6.7.3) id CFF34285 for planet_oreo_horizon; Sat, 17 May 2001 20:12:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from emoose.mail.n_bot.com (emoose.mx.n_bot.com [198.81.11.42]) by md.s#parpnet.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAC035940 for ; Received: from clift.b89_crost.com (clift.b89_crost.com [199.3.12.256]) by dot.2_bycentric.net (8.8.5/04/01 3.26)) id LAT131787; Received: from spr_most.bix.45neter!.com(204.332.183.71) by hars11.ix.45neter!.com via smapt (V1.3) id smr0029301; Message-Id: <199802031208.e-mail@_SUSAN.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Reply-To: lucero7@juno.com Subject: Network Opportunities Magazine-Pays You! Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Ad-Net's Network Opportunities Magazine -The #1 magazine for network marketers is going MLM! One time cost only $39.00(includes 12 issues). Start making money right away. Free website(HI TECH). Please email for more info. jm_w@hotmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 11:06:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14225 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.stlnet.com (root@mail.stlnet.com [209.96.6.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14197 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:05:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from xavier@stlnet.com) Received: from stlnet.com (jkump@xavier.stlnet.com [209.96.2.5]) by mail.stlnet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA25402 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:04:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:03:28 -0600 From: "Jon E. Kump" Organization: Pulitzer Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Problems linking shared libraries with ld Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I am writing some code that I am linking in 11 shared libraries and one static library. When ld goes to link the code I get an error from ld. ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC This is my make file that i am using. This program is a little 20 line example. CC = gcc CFLAGS = -g -funroll-loops -Wall -pipe -ansi LDFLAGS = -Bdynamic CPPFLAGS = INCLUDES = -I. -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include LIBDIR = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib LIBS = -lXm -lXpm -lXmu -lXt -lXext -lX11 -lXmHTML -lSM -lICE -ljpeg -lpng -lz -lm LOADLIBES = $(LIBDIR) $(LIBS) OBJS = autosize_html.o all: $(OBJS) autosize_html autosize_html.o: autosize_html.c $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS) $(INCLUDES) -c $< autosize_html: $(OBJS) ld $(LDFLAGS) $(LOADLIBES) -o autosize_html $(OBJS) and here is the code #include void main(int argc, char **argv) { Widget toplevel; XtAppContext app; toplevel = XtVaAppInitialize(&app, "Demos", NULL, 0, &argc, argv, NULL, NULL); /* make sure we may resize ourselves */ XtVaSetValues(toplevel, XmNallowShellResize, True, NULL); /* create a XmHTML widget but this time enable autosizing */ XtVaCreateManagedWidget("html", xmHTMLWidgetClass, toplevel, XmNvalue, "An AutoSizing XmHTML widget.", XmNresizeWidth, True, XmNresizeHeight, True, NULL); XtRealizeWidget(toplevel); XtAppMainLoop(app); } Thanks for any help in advance Jon E. Kump Please e-mail any response to my address, I don't subscribe to the mailing list -> xavier@stlnet.com -- Jon E. Kump Unix Systems Administrator, Web Programmer, jkump@stlnet.com Systems Programmer xavier@stlnet.com Pulitzer Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 12:03:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA23850 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:03:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from concepts.nl (concepts.nl [194.134.0.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA23803 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nacbside@concepts.nl) Received: from nacbside (breda25.pstn01.concepts.nl [194.134.47.189]) by concepts.nl (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA21321 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:07:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199802032007.VAA21321@concepts.nl> From: "Joris Knape" To: Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:01:33 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" unsubscribe nacbside From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 13:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07161 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07149 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA08396; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008394; Tue Feb 3 13:22:44 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id NAA19083; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:22:44 -0800 (PST) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199802032122.NAA19083@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: Loadable line disciplines In-Reply-To: <199802010359.UAA04677@usr02.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 1, 98 03:59:32 am" To: terry@whistle.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:22:44 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" [... thread moved from -current to -hackers ...] Terry Lambert writes: > I'd like to change the linesw[] structure a bit, as well as modify > the ldisc_register()/ldisc_deregister() mechanism a bit to make it > a bit more orthoganl. The idea is that existing line disciplines > will all use the registration interface, as well, and that you won't > be able to deregister a discipline while it is in use. It also > gets rid of the dependence on manifest constant values in conf.h > and ioctl_compat.h that must be added for each new discipline. Terry and I have talked about this.. it seems like a good idea to me. Ideally, in addition, ttycom.h would change from this: #define TTYDISC 0 /* termios tty line discipline */ #define TABLDISC 3 /* tablet discipline */ #define SLIPDISC 4 /* serial IP discipline */ #define PPPDISC 5 /* PPP discipline */ to this: #define TTYDISC "tty" /* termios tty line discipline */ #define TABLDISC "tablet" /* tablet discipline */ #define SLIPDISC "slip" /* serial IP discipline */ #define PPPDISC "ppp" /* PPP discipline */ This would be to solve the following problem: if you have a line discipline that is loadable (it registers using ldisc_register()) -- for example in an LKM -- how do you find out its "DISC" number (which can change across reboots)? If these numbers were replaced by unique strings identifying each line discicpline, the problem would go away. However, this would cause some serious backward incompatibility. Perhaps better is to add a parallel ioctl() to translate a string line discipline name into the corresponding "DISC" number. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 15:17:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25116 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25107; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:17:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01994; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd001930; Tue Feb 3 16:17:30 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA02805; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:17:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802032317.QAA02805@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us (Chris Coleman) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:17:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, AdamT@smginc.com, mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Chris Coleman" at Feb 3, 98 07:50:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I liked everything up until the reboot. :-( Win95 reboots so many times, > that it takes hours of time trying to install. There are three circumstances where Windows 95 will reboot: 1) After the initial install, to be running off the HD This is acceptable; FreeBSD does this now for the network setup. 2) During the initial install, if hardware autodetection "takes too long", the *user* resets the machine so the probe that hung will not be repeated. This is a good thing. It means Windows95 can detect hardware FreeBSD can't. It's a feature. The only time this becomes an annoyance instead of a feature is if you bought cruddy hardware. Then it's pilot error. 3) If during configuration, it asks if you want to reboot, and instead of waiting until you have installed everything, you *foolishly* say "yes". This is pilot error. > before leaving). It would stop only on critical errors, and log the rest. > Otherwise it would be real easy to install a basic system. > > > So... Comments on this, anyone? :-) What about probes that hang the hardware because you wre silly enough to engage in pilot error (#2, above: buying cruddy hardware)? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 15:31:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27110 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27093; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:30:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp116.wcc.net [208.6.232.116]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA20875; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:24:59 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA01448; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:28:34 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:28:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802032328.RAA01448@detlev.UUCP> To: chris@bb.cc.wa.us CC: karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, AdamT@smginc.com, mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Chris Coleman on Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:50:35 -0800 (PST)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I liked everything up until the reboot. :-( Win95 reboots so many > times, that it takes hours of time trying to install. I really like > the idea of having an "automated" feature. (wish win95 had one) > where you could enter in all the information in a few basic screens > and then just leave it. They do. It's not very well designed or documented, though... it's designed for OEM's installing Win95 at the factory. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 15:57:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00878 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:57:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wcc.wcc.net (wcc.wcc.net [208.6.232.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00860; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from piquan@wcc.wcc.net) Received: from detlev.UUCP (ppp111.wcc.net [208.6.232.111]) by wcc.wcc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23642; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:53:05 -0600 (CST) Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.8.8/8.8.7) id RAA01559; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:56:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:56:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802032356.RAA01559@detlev.UUCP> To: tlambert@primenet.com CC: chris@bb.cc.wa.us, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, AdamT@smginc.com, mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199802032317.QAA02805@usr01.primenet.com> (message from Terry Lambert on Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:17:18 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199802032317.QAA02805@usr01.primenet.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" >> I liked everything up until the reboot. :-( Win95 reboots so many >> times, that it takes hours of time trying to install. > There are three circumstances where Windows 95 will reboot: > 3) If during configuration, it asks if you want to reboot, and > instead of waiting until you have installed everything, you > *foolishly* say "yes". > This is pilot error. I personally believe that it is design error, since you give the user no information to tell if everything has been detected, so the user doesn't know when to reboot. It's also a documentation error... the fact that 'no' is quicker is not documented. -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 16:37:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06147 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:37:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jraynard.demon.co.uk (jraynard.demon.co.uk [158.152.42.77]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06049 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:37:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fhackers@jraynard.demon.co.uk) Received: (from fhackers@localhost) by jraynard.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.6.12) id AAA11848; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:36:26 GMT Message-ID: <19980204003626.08784@demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:36:26 +0000 From: James Raynard To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: sigprocmask.S - help requested! Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I'm trying to tackle the NSIG=32 barrier by changing sigset_t from an int to an array. Having uncovered a rather disappoining amount of code that assumes sigset_t == int, I've reached a stage where I can compile a new kernel, reboot, login and run "normal" code; however, I've noticed that anything involving blocking signals fails because sigprocmask(SIG_UNBLOCK,...) doesn't restore the old signal mask. It seems that the sigprocmask call gate is rather "different", and I don't know enough about GAS or call gates to understand what's going on. Can anyone help me out? (Diffs to follow when I'm happy with them). From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 18:22:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21071 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:22:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DNS.Lamb.net (root@DNS.Lamb.net [207.90.181.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA21066 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:22:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by DNS.Lamb.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA01421 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.Alameda.net(207.90.181.2) via SMTP by DNS.Lamb.net, id smtpd001419; Tue Feb 3 18:22:15 1998 Received: (from ulf@localhost) by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.6/8.7.6) id SAA03079 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: Ulf Zimmermann Message-Id: <199802040222.SAA03079@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Subject: IP tunnels ? once again probably To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:22:07 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" *sigh* I tried now so many things, but it just doesn't work or are terrible hacks. Following situation: Host A has two ethernets and a 24 hour connection to the Internet. It uses natd/ipfirewall/ipdivert to masq/firewall. The IP number on the public side is static. Then there are several other hosts, all have 1 ethernet and 1 modem and are also running natd/ipfirewall/ipdivert and use pppd to dialup to a provider, using dynamic IPs. So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable nor user friendly. Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ? Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 18:30:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA22976 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:30:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA22956 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:30:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA29829 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd029827; Tue Feb 3 18:25:13 1998 Message-ID: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:21:37 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: kirk's soft-update integration.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Kirk's soft update code has a poison pill license for commercial use, (he gives the license on a case by case basis) but it greatly speeds up FS access, and is freely usable for private use. The patches, when added to FreeBSD actually do yield a slight improvement even when used with the dummy stub module that can be used to make the system still work for commercial uses. The slight improvement is due to his replacement syncer. While the copyrighted file cannot be used in every situation, the system as modified to use it seems to not have any bad side effects, and as the file itself can be distributed freely with a source available OS, there would be no problem with even distributing the files to allow private users to make use of this. The effect is to make the speed of a filesystem approach that of an async FS while maintaining the safety of a sync FS. (It may even be faster than our async FS). What I want to get from the readership here, and more importantly, CORE members, is whether the changes for this should be integrated back into FreeBSD-current, and when. I'm not SURE yet whether I CAN put the changes back (OpenBSD did) but I'd like some sort of a reading of the acceptance of it.. An indication of how useful this is is: multiple compiles, copies, rms etc. With soft updates: writes: 6 sync, 1,113,686 async; run time 19hr, 50min Normal filesystem: writes: 1,459,147 sync, 487,031 async; run time 27hr, 15min The upshot is 42% less I/O and 28% shorter running time. ---------------------------- the license is: /* * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. * * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). * * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under * conditions other than those described here, please contact the * author at one of the following addresses: * * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 * USA * * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions * are met: * * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from * this software without specific prior written permission. * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software * that uses the this software. This source code must either be included * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely redistributable * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. * * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF * SUCH DAMAGE. * * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 18:35:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA23768 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA23757 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA28185; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:35:27 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id UAA03048; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:35:26 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980203203526.20512@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:35:26 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Tue, Feb 03, 1998 at 06:21:37PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" How is this a "poison pill"? I don't see the problem - FreeBSD, which is what this would go into, is already available in source and object form at no cost or for the reasonable distribution cost (if you buy a CDROM). -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost On Tue, Feb 03, 1998 at 06:21:37PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Kirk's soft update code has a poison pill license for > commercial use, (he gives the license on a case by case basis) but > it greatly speeds up FS access, and is freely usable for private > use. The patches, when added to FreeBSD actually do yield a slight > improvement even when used with the dummy stub module that can be > used to make the system still work for commercial uses. > The slight improvement is due to his replacement syncer. > > While the copyrighted file cannot be used in every situation, the > system as modified to use it seems to not have any bad side effects, > and as the file itself can be distributed freely with a source > available OS, there would be no problem with even distributing > the files to allow private users to make use of this. > > The effect is to make the speed of a filesystem approach that of > an async FS while maintaining the safety of a sync FS. > (It may even be faster than our async FS). > > What I want to get from the readership here, and more importantly, > CORE members, is whether the changes for this should be integrated > back into FreeBSD-current, and when. > > I'm not SURE yet whether I CAN put the changes back (OpenBSD did) > but I'd like some sort of a reading of the acceptance of it.. > > An indication of how useful this is is: > > multiple compiles, copies, rms etc. > > With soft updates: writes: 6 sync, 1,113,686 async; run time 19hr, 50min > Normal filesystem: writes: 1,459,147 sync, 487,031 async; run time 27hr, > 15min > > The upshot is 42% less I/O and 28% shorter running time. > ---------------------------- > > the license is: > > /* > * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. > * > * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University > * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, > * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File > * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). > * > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > * author at one of the following addresses: > * > * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com > * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 > * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 > * USA > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in > the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the > distribution. > * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of > * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from > * this software without specific prior written permission. > * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on > * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software > * that uses the this software. This source code must either be > included > * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of > * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely > redistributable > * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete > * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. > * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically > * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, > * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY > * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > IMPLIED > * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > ARE > * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR > * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR > CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE > GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, > STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY > WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY > OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 > */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 19:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA29554 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA29522 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:20:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00911; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd000907; Tue Feb 3 19:12:14 1998 Message-ID: <34D7DBB6.33590565@whistle.com> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:38 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Denninger CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> <19980203203526.20512@mcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Karl Denninger wrote: > > How is this a "poison pill"? > > I don't see the problem - FreeBSD, which is what this would go into, is > already available in source and object form at no cost or for the reasonable > distribution cost (if you buy a CDROM). > > the problem is not for freebsd, but ISPs and such who may be tempted to use it to put on systems they place at custommer's premises. Whistle has a license, but the GENERIC system as distributed probably couldn't have it compiled in. I myself am not to clear on the terms.. maybe kirk (who is CC'd) can give a non-binding "This is what I mean" interpretation for us? It's to whistle's advantage to integrate these changes back some time this year, but it's up to each commercial user to negotiate with Kirk I guess. > > > > the license is: > > > > /* > > * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. > > * > > * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University > > * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, > > * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File > > * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). > > * > > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > > * author at one of the following addresses: > > * > > * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com > > * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 > > * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 > > * USA > > * > > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > > * are met: > > * > > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in > > the > > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the > > distribution. > > * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of > > * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from > > * this software without specific prior written permission. > > * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on > > * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software > > * that uses the this software. This source code must either be > > included > > * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of > > * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely > > redistributable > > * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete > > * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. > > * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically > > * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, > > * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. > > * > > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY > > * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > > IMPLIED > > * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > > ARE > > * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR > > * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR > > CONSEQUENTIAL > > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE > > GOODS > > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, > > STRICT > > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY > > WAY > > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY > > OF > > * SUCH DAMAGE. > > * > > * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 > > */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 19:37:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02653 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from apollo.ptway.com (apollo.ptway.com [199.176.148.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02643 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:36:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from haskin@ptway.com) Received: from brianjr (211R1.infinitecom.com [199.176.148.78] (may be forged)) by apollo.ptway.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA25930; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:39:25 -0500 Message-ID: <004f01bd311e$16bb5e80$0b00000a@brianjr.haskin.org> From: "Brian Haskin" To: "Julian Elischer" , Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:36:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Julian, I don't see the "poison pill" in here for commercial use, in fact this looks fairly similar to the "BSD" licensee to me (a non-legal type). Perhaps the poison pill was in a different file? Brian Haskin -----Original Message----- From: Julian Elischer To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 9:32 PM Subject: kirk's soft-update integration.. >Kirk's soft update code has a poison pill license for >commercial use, (he gives the license on a case by case basis) but >it greatly speeds up FS access, and is freely usable for private >use. The patches, when added to FreeBSD actually do yield a slight [snip explanation of package] > >the license is: > >/* > * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. > * > * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University > * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, > * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File > * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). > * > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > * author at one of the following addresses: > * > * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com > * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 > * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 > * USA > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in >the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the >distribution. > * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of > * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from > * this software without specific prior written permission. > * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on > * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software > * that uses the this software. This source code must either be >included > * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of > * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely >redistributable > * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete > * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. > * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically > * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, > * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY > * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE >IMPLIED > * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE >ARE > * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR > * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR >CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE >GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, >STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY >WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY >OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 > */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 19:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03703 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:43:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03622 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from karl@Mars.mcs.net) Received: from Mars.mcs.net (karl@Mars.mcs.net [192.160.127.85]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.7/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA00621; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:42:28 -0600 (CST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by Mars.mcs.net (8.8.7/8.8.2) id VAA05126; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:42:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19980203214227.21335@mcs.net> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:42:27 -0600 From: Karl Denninger To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> <19980203203526.20512@mcs.net> <34D7DBB6.33590565@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <34D7DBB6.33590565@whistle.com>; from Julian Elischer on Tue, Feb 03, 1998 at 07:08:38PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Tue, Feb 03, 1998 at 07:08:38PM -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > How is this a "poison pill"? > > > > I don't see the problem - FreeBSD, which is what this would go into, is > > already available in source and object form at no cost or for the reasonable > > distribution cost (if you buy a CDROM). > > > > > > the problem is not for freebsd, but ISPs and such who may be > tempted to use it to put on systems they place at custommer's premises. > > Whistle has a license, but the GENERIC system as distributed probably > couldn't have it compiled in. > > I myself am not to clear on the terms.. > maybe kirk (who is CC'd) can give a non-binding "This is what I mean" > interpretation for us? > It's to whistle's advantage to integrate these changes back some time > this > year, but it's up to each commercial user to negotiate with Kirk I > guess. Why? The source is STILL available, even in that case. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost > > > > > > > the license is: > > > > > > /* > > > * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. > > > * > > > * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University > > > * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, > > > * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File > > > * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). > > > * > > > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > > > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > > > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > > > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > > > * author at one of the following addresses: > > > * > > > * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com > > > * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 > > > * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 > > > * USA > > > * > > > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > > > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > > > * are met: > > > * > > > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > > > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > > > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in > > > the > > > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the > > > distribution. > > > * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of > > > * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from > > > * this software without specific prior written permission. > > > * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on > > > * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software > > > * that uses the this software. This source code must either be > > > included > > > * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of > > > * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely > > > redistributable > > > * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete > > > * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. > > > * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically > > > * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, > > > * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. > > > * > > > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY > > > * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > > > IMPLIED > > > * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > > > ARE > > > * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR > > > * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR > > > CONSEQUENTIAL > > > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE > > > GOODS > > > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > > > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, > > > STRICT > > > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY > > > WAY > > > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY > > > OF > > > * SUCH DAMAGE. > > > * > > > * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 > > > */ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 19:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04528 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:45:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04516 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:45:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02993; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:13:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802040313.TAA02993@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:21:37 PST." <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:13:20 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Got one simple question... Where or When can I get hold of "Soft Updates" ? 8) I am not a commercial site... The license file looks okay to me . The only question is how much would a license cost should I decide to use the file and don't want to display the copyright notice for instance net appliances which I may not even want to disclose that the system is running FreeBSD --- Thats an scenario and not a far fetch one. Cheers, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 21:13:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA15695 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:13:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from drmemory.fnal.gov (drmemory.fnal.gov [131.225.105.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15689 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:13:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rneswold@mcs.net) Received: from localhost (rneswold@localhost) by drmemory.fnal.gov (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA02784 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:13:08 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: drmemory.fnal.gov: rneswold owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:13:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard M. Neswold" X-Sender: rneswold@drmemory.fnal.gov Reply-To: rneswold@mcs.net To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-Reply-To: <199802040313.TAA02993@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: X-Spambot-Food: abuse@localhost postmaster@localhost postmaster@fbi.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > Got one simple question... > > Where or When can I get hold of "Soft Updates" ? 8) > I am not a commercial site... I'll second that! If it's enabled through a kernel option, then commercial users have a simple way of removing it from their system... Rich ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rich Neswold rneswold@mcs.net http://www.mcs.net/~rneswold From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 22:19:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA24240 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:19:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA24234; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21440; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd021390; Tue Feb 3 23:18:52 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA02370; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:18:44 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802040618.XAA02370@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:18:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, chris@bb.cc.wa.us, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, AdamT@smginc.com, mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802032356.RAA01559@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Feb 3, 98 05:56:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > 3) If during configuration, it asks if you want to reboot, and > > instead of waiting until you have installed everything, you > > *foolishly* say "yes". > > This is pilot error. > > I personally believe that it is design error, since you give the user > no information to tell if everything has been detected, so the user > doesn't know when to reboot. It's also a documentation error... the > fact that 'no' is quicker is not documented. We've travelled this ground before. Make something easier to install than Windows 95, and make it run all their old software, and people will use it. Right now, you haven't even got the first, let alone the second. It may be poor design, but it's better than its competition. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 22:28:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25855 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:28:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from horst.bfd.com (horst.bfd.com [204.160.242.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25850 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:28:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Received: from harlie.bfd.com (bastion.bfd.com [204.160.242.14]) by horst.bfd.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA16440; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:28:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ejs@bfd.com) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:28:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Schwertfeger" To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-Reply-To: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > Kirk's soft update code has a poison pill license for > commercial use, (he gives the license on a case by case basis) My reading of this doesn't support this. Certainly we should get the authors opinion on this, but it sounds like redistribution is acceptable without any other licensing, provided we abide by the four conditions, which are about as restrictive as LGPL. > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > * author at one of the following addresses: ie, follow these rules, or else get permission. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:00:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29967 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:00:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.virginia.edu (mail.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA29746 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:59:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atf3r@cs.virginia.edu) Received: from mail.cs.virginia.edu by mail.virginia.edu id aa21121; 4 Feb 98 1:59 EST Received: from mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (mamba-fo.cs.Virginia.EDU [128.143.136.18]) by ares.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA03755; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (atf3r@localhost) by mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA23431; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:59:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: mamba.cs.Virginia.EDU: atf3r owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:59:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Adrian T. Filipi-Martin" Reply-To: Adrian Filipi-Martin To: Nate Williams cc: FreeBSD Hackers List Subject: Re: Recompiling just kmem programs? In-Reply-To: <199802021809.LAA28241@mt.sri.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > # make obj && make depend && make && make install > > > > > 'make obj depend all install' oughta be enough for anyone. > > > Actually, no. > > > > Would you care to elaborate? :) > > > > The general idea is that you want to make each of these targets, in > > order, and stop everything if one of them fails. Doesn't 'make obj > > depend all install' do just that? > > Yep, but if you do a 'make obj depend', the .depend file won't end up in > the obj directory, simple because make doesn't 'reset' it's build > environment to take advantage of the obj directory. In the same manner, > if you do a 'make depend all', then make won't re-read the dependency > files before making 'all' to determine if a file is out-of-date with > respect to it's dependencies. > > This is just a generic problem with all Unix makes, and nothing new to > BSD-Make. Normally it works fine since most targets don't depend on the > ouytput of the previous target, but if they do there is a chance of not > getting the correct results. Actually, GNU make does not suffer from this problem and I use this fact in most code that I write. If the dependency file does not exist, GNU make can make it and then reread the dependency files before continuing. Basically the included files become dependencies for the makefile itself. Apparently the basic convention is derived from MACH's makefiles. Here's my template GNU makefile that accomplishes this: # # makefile (a GNU makefile) # Time-stamp: <95/02/26 22:16:17 adrian> # # Adrian Filipi-Martin # # SHELL = /bin/sh CC = g++ CXX = ${CC} CXXFLAGS = -g CPPFLAGS = HFILES = ${wildcard *.h} CCFILES = ${wildcard *.cc} OFILES = ${CCFILES:.cc=.o} DFILES = ${CCFILES:.cc=.d} # Dependency files. BINFILES = target .PHONEY: clean vclean depend # Manufacture depenency files on a per source file basis. %.d: %.cc $(SHELL) -ec '${CC} -M ${CPPFLAGS} $< \ | sed '\''s/$*\\.o[ :]*/& $@/g'\'' > $@' %.d: %.c $(SHELL) -ec '${CC} -M ${CPPFLAGS} $< \ | sed '\''s/$*\\.o[ :]*/& $@/g'\'' > $@' all: ${BINFILES} target: ${OFILES} clean: ${RM} ${OFILES} ${DFILES} core.* *.core vclean: clean ${RM} ${BINFILES} depend: @: # Execute but don't echo the sh null-statement. # Include automatically generated dependencies at end, # so that 'all' remains the default target. -include ${DFILES} The 'depend' targert is just there for convenience. Sometimes, I like to do 'make depend' without making any .o files. It is enough, however, to update the dependency files. Adrian -- adrian@virginia.edu ---->>>>| If I were stranded on a desert island, and System Administrator --->>>| I could only have one OS for my computer, Neurosurgical Visualzation Lab -->>| it would be FreeBSD. Think about it..... http://www.nvl.virginia.edu/ ->| http://www.freebsd.org/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:07:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01084 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:07:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01077; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:07:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr08.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA10486; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:07:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr08.primenet.com(206.165.6.208) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd010436; Wed Feb 4 00:06:56 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr08.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA04284; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:06:47 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199802040706.AAA04284@usr08.primenet.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD updated Installation / Adminsitration Kit To: joelh@gnu.org Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:06:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chris@bb.cc.wa.us, karpen@ocean.campus.luth.se, AdamT@smginc.com, mike@smith.net.au, kpielorz@tdx.co.uk, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199802032328.RAA01448@detlev.UUCP> from "Joel Ray Holveck" at Feb 3, 98 05:28:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > I liked everything up until the reboot. :-( Win95 reboots so many > > times, that it takes hours of time trying to install. I really like > > the idea of having an "automated" feature. (wish win95 had one) > > where you could enter in all the information in a few basic screens > > and then just leave it. > > They do. It's not very well designed or documented, though... it's > designed for OEM's installing Win95 at the factory. To a apriori known hardware configuration from a small set of possible hardware configuration, of course. A general install must be must more flexible. Consider that Microsoft, even after support overhead, is making money on sales of Windows 95 upgrades. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:08:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA01628 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:08:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (mail-gw.utimaco.co.at [195.96.28.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01623 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:08:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA04173 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:48:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from ultra1.utimaco.co.at(10.0.0.32) by safeconcept via smap (V2.0) id xma004171; Wed, 4 Feb 98 07:48:44 +0100 Message-ID: <34D8136F.CF845A68@utimaco.co.at> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:06:23 +0100 From: Michael Schuster Organization: Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH. Linz Austria X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Graham Wheeler wrote: >I notice from looking at the kernel source >that it appears as if an exit() effectively does a shmdt for each shared >memory segment, but not a shmctl(IPC_RMID,..). You probably wouldn't want to do that, since shmctl(IPC_RMID,..) really removes the shm segment, and other processes trying to use it wouldn't be very happy about that ... You could find out about the number of attached processes/threads using something like: int fd; struct shmid_ds sInfo; shmctl (fd, IPC_STAT, &sInfo); if (sInfo.shm_nattch > 1) shmctl (fd, IPC_RMID, NULL); -- Michael Schuster From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:16:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02693 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:16:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02687 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:16:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA01012 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:16:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802040716.XAA01012@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bt848 lkm? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:16:22 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi, I want to turn the bt848 driver into an lkm module for hacking purposes. The memory allocation for frame capture will be handle separately. Anything to watch out for instance with respect to the pci subsystem? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:17:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA03393 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:17:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03377 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:17:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from doconnor@cain.gsoft.com.au) Received: from cain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.8.8/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07706; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:47:15 +1030 (CST) Message-Id: <199802040717.RAA07706@cain.gsoft.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Michael Schuster cc: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:06:23 BST." <34D8136F.CF845A68@utimaco.co.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:47:15 +1030 From: "Daniel O'Connor" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > You probably wouldn't want to do that, since shmctl(IPC_RMID,..) really > removes the shm segment, and other processes trying to use it wouldn't > be very happy about that ... > You could find out about the number of attached processes/threads using > something like: Hmm, yes but I know of at least one program (paradise netrek :) which uses the fact that the shared mem segment is persistent... --------------------------------------------------------------------- |Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software | |http://www.gsoft.com.au | |The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to| |choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum | --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:41:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06153 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:41:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.demon.co.uk [158.152.17.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06143 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:40:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from gate.lan.awfulhak.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA23697; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:39:19 GMT (envelope-from brian@gate.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199802040739.HAA23697@awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: Ulf Zimmermann cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IP tunnels ? once again probably In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:22:07 PST." <199802040222.SAA03079@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:39:19 +0000 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" [.....] > So far, so good, everything works fine. Now I need to connect the offsite > hosts via an ip tunnel to the main location. The offsite has to start > the tunnel, as it has a dynamic address on the public. I tried several > things with ppp, iptunnel (2 different ones) and ssh, but all are not stable > nor user friendly. The latest ppp (-current, -stable and http://www.FreeBSD.org/~brian) has a full working example of a tunnel setup in the PPP OVER TCP section of the man page. There's also an example in ppp.conf.sample. > Has anyone come up with something simular ? Any pointers ? > > Ulf. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 > Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 3 23:52:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA07985 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:52:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (mail-gw.utimaco.co.at [195.96.28.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07980 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 23:52:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by safeconcept.utimaco.co.at (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04289 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:32:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from ultra1.utimaco.co.at(10.0.0.32) by safeconcept via smap (V2.0) id xma004287; Wed, 4 Feb 98 08:32:26 +0100 Message-ID: <34D81DAD.F3B30021@utimaco.co.at> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:50:05 +0100 From: Michael Schuster Organization: Utimaco Safe Concept GmbH. Linz Austria X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals References: <199802040717.RAA07706@cain.gsoft.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Daniel O'Connor wrote: > Hmm, yes but I know of at least one program (paradise netrek :) which uses the > fact that the shared mem segment is persistent... Shared memory is persistent in the sense that you can do something like typedef struct { int magic; .... } my_struct; void *mem; int size = sizeof (my_struct); key_t key = MY_KEY; /* some constant key */ fd = shmget (key, size, ...); mem = shmat (fd, ...); if (((my_struct *) mem)->magic == MY_MAGIC) { /* re-attached */ /* re-use memory .... */ } else { /* do what you have to do with newly attached mem */ ((my_struct *) mem)->magic = MY_MAGIC; } /* ..... */ shmdt (mem); as often as you like, and you (and any other process) will always get the same memory segment (although the pointers may not be the same - they're virual addresses, of course) with the contents you left in there the last time you used it (provided noone has changed it, of course). Once you IPC_RM it even once though, it's gone (in fact you can only IPC_RM it once; subsequent IPC_RMs will give you an invalid argument error) and lost immediately for all and any process. -- Michael Schuster From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 00:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA12221 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:34:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA12207 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:33:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dirk.vangulik@jrc.it) Received: from elec.isei.jrc.it (elec.jrc.it [139.191.71.132]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5688) with SMTP id JAA12670; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:33:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from elect6.jrc.it by elec.isei.jrc.it (4.1/EI-3.0m) id AA03502; Wed, 4 Feb 98 09:33:17 +0100 Posted-Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:31:55 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:31:55 +0100 (MET) From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik X-Sender: dirkx@elect6.jrc.it To: Julian Elischer Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-Reply-To: <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Of course, it would be to simple to just ask Kirk nicely for a lincence for FreeBSD :-) Dw. On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Julian Elischer wrote: > Kirk's soft update code has a poison pill license for > commercial use, (he gives the license on a case by case basis) but > it greatly speeds up FS access, and is freely usable for private > use. The patches, when added to FreeBSD actually do yield a slight > improvement even when used with the dummy stub module that can be > used to make the system still work for commercial uses. > The slight improvement is due to his replacement syncer. > > While the copyrighted file cannot be used in every situation, the > system as modified to use it seems to not have any bad side effects, > and as the file itself can be distributed freely with a source > available OS, there would be no problem with even distributing > the files to allow private users to make use of this. > > The effect is to make the speed of a filesystem approach that of > an async FS while maintaining the safety of a sync FS. > (It may even be faster than our async FS). > > What I want to get from the readership here, and more importantly, > CORE members, is whether the changes for this should be integrated > back into FreeBSD-current, and when. > > I'm not SURE yet whether I CAN put the changes back (OpenBSD did) > but I'd like some sort of a reading of the acceptance of it.. > > An indication of how useful this is is: > > multiple compiles, copies, rms etc. > > With soft updates: writes: 6 sync, 1,113,686 async; run time 19hr, 50min > Normal filesystem: writes: 1,459,147 sync, 487,031 async; run time 27hr, > 15min > > The upshot is 42% less I/O and 28% shorter running time. > ---------------------------- > > the license is: > > /* > * Copyright 1997 Marshall Kirk McKusick. All Rights Reserved. > * > * The soft updates code is derived from the appendix of a University > * of Michigan technical report (Gregory R. Ganger and Yale N. Patt, > * "Soft Updates: A Solution to the Metadata Update Problem in File > * Systems", CSE-TR-254-95, August 1995). > * > * The following are the copyrights and redistribution conditions that > * apply to this copy of the soft update software. For a license > * to use, redistribute or sell the soft update software under > * conditions other than those described here, please contact the > * author at one of the following addresses: > * > * Marshall Kirk McKusick mckusick@mckusick.com > * 1614 Oxford Street +1-510-843-9542 > * Berkeley, CA 94709-1608 > * USA > * > * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without > * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions > * are met: > * > * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. > * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright > * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in > the > * documentation and/or other materials provided with the > distribution. > * 3. None of the names of McKusick, Ganger, Patt, or the University of > * Michigan may be used to endorse or promote products derived from > * this software without specific prior written permission. > * 4. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on > * how to obtain complete source code for any accompanying software > * that uses the this software. This source code must either be > included > * in the distribution or be available for no more than the cost of > * distribution plus a nominal fee, and must be freely > redistributable > * under reasonable conditions. For an executable file, complete > * source code means the source code for all modules it contains. > * It does not mean source code for modules or files that typically > * accompany the operating system on which the executable file runs, > * e.g., standard library modules or system header files. > * > * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK ``AS IS'' AND ANY > * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE > IMPLIED > * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE > ARE > * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL MARSHALL KIRK MCKUSICK BE LIABLE FOR > * ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR > CONSEQUENTIAL > * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE > GOODS > * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) > * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, > STRICT > * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY > WAY > * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY > OF > * SUCH DAMAGE. > * > * @(#)ffs_softdep.c 9.12 (McKusick) 12/2/97 > */ > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 00:50:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA14719 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:50:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from citadel.cdsec.com (citadel.cdsec.com [192.96.22.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA14714 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gram@cdsec.com) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by citadel.cdsec.com (8.8.5/8.6.9) id KAA27818; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:55:32 +0200 (SAT) Received: by citadel via recvmail id 27780; Wed Feb 4 10:54:40 1998 From: Graham Wheeler Message-Id: <199802040854.KAA11487@cdsec.com> Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals To: Michael.Schuster@utimaco.co.at (Michael Schuster) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:54:32 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <34D8136F.CF845A68@utimaco.co.at> from "Michael Schuster" at Feb 4, 98 08:06:23 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-h4.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > > Graham Wheeler wrote: > > >I notice from looking at the kernel source > >that it appears as if an exit() effectively does a shmdt for each shared > >memory segment, but not a shmctl(IPC_RMID,..). > You probably wouldn't want to do that, since shmctl(IPC_RMID,..) really > removes the shm segment, and other processes trying to use it wouldn't > be very happy about that ... If the shmctl is done from the SIGCHLD handler, I know that there are no other processes still using the segment (as the only other process using the segment was the one that terminated and caused the SIGCHLD signal...) -- Dr Graham Wheeler E-mail: gram@cdsec.com Citadel Data Security Phone: +27(21)23-6065/6/7 Internet/Intranet Network Specialists Mobile: +27(83)-253-9864 Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax: +27(21)24-3656 Data Security Products WWW: http://www.cdsec.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 01:13:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17097 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (Ilsa.StevesCafe.com [205.168.119.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17092 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:13:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com) Received: from Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Ilsa.StevesCafe.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA26219 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:13:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199802040913.CAA26219@Ilsa.StevesCafe.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 From: Steve Passe To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NMIs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:13:19 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Hi, I discovered that you only get ONE NMI from a switch attached to IOCHK#. This fisrt NMI will trap to the debugger, but additional pushes of the swith have no effect. Reading the PIIX datasheet it appears that the NMI ISR must manipulate ports 0x61 & 0x70, but the description contradicts itself... Does anyone know the specific routine to re-enable the NMI once it has been called via IOCHK? -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | Symmetric MultiProcessor FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 02:13:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24688 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:13:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [205.217.47.105]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24674 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:13:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA09861; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:03:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802041003.CAA09861@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:38 PST." <34D7DBB6.33590565@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:03:37 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:38 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications To: Karl Denninger CC: hackers@freebsd.org, mckusick@mckusick.com Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. Karl Denninger wrote: > > How is this a "poison pill"? > > I don't see the problem - FreeBSD, which is what this would go into, is > already available in source and object form at no cost or for the > reasonable distribution cost (if you buy a CDROM). > > Julian Elischer replied: > > the problem is not for freebsd, but ISPs and such who may be > tempted to use it to put on systems they place at custommer's > premises. > > Whistle has a license, but the GENERIC system as distributed > probably couldn't have it compiled in. > > I myself am not to clear on the terms.. maybe kirk (who is > CC'd) can give a non-binding "This is what I mean" interpretation > for us? It's to whistle's advantage to integrate these changes > back some time this year, but it's up to each commercial user > to negotiate with Kirk I guess. My intent is that the typical FreeBSD user that gets source be able to use my code. This should cover most of the FreeBSD users. However, companies like Whistle that want to bundle FreeBSD with a product for which they do not distribute source code have to work out a license agreement with me. The goal here is to get commercial companies like Whistle, BSDI, and Sun to work out a licensing agreement with me while at the same time allowing me to let the individual non-commercial users use the code without having to license it. This licensing is being driven by the fact that I am a self-employed person who needs to generate a living. While I would love to give all of my code away as I did for years at UC Berkeley, that is no longer possible. Kirk McKusick From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 02:37:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27308 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:37:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27298 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:37:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00427; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:37:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802041037.CAA00427@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: Kirk McKusick cc: Karl Denninger , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:03:37 PST." <199802041003.CAA09861@flamingo.McKusick.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 02:37:38 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Cool, so whats next for hackers like me to get hold of the code 8) Many Tnks! Amancio > Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:08:38 -0800 > From: Julian Elischer > Organization: Whistle Communications > To: Karl Denninger > CC: hackers@freebsd.org, mckusick@mckusick.com > Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. > > Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > How is this a "poison pill"? > > > > I don't see the problem - FreeBSD, which is what this would go into, is > > already available in source and object form at no cost or for the > > reasonable distribution cost (if you buy a CDROM). > > > > > > Julian Elischer replied: > > > > the problem is not for freebsd, but ISPs and such who may be > > tempted to use it to put on systems they place at custommer's > > premises. > > > > Whistle has a license, but the GENERIC system as distributed > > probably couldn't have it compiled in. > > > > I myself am not to clear on the terms.. maybe kirk (who is > > CC'd) can give a non-binding "This is what I mean" interpretation > > for us? It's to whistle's advantage to integrate these changes > > back some time this year, but it's up to each commercial user > > to negotiate with Kirk I guess. > > My intent is that the typical FreeBSD user that gets source > be able to use my code. This should cover most of the FreeBSD > users. However, companies like Whistle that want to bundle > FreeBSD with a product for which they do not distribute source > code have to work out a license agreement with me. The goal > here is to get commercial companies like Whistle, BSDI, and > Sun to work out a licensing agreement with me while at the > same time allowing me to let the individual non-commercial > users use the code without having to license it. This licensing > is being driven by the fact that I am a self-employed person > who needs to generate a living. While I would love to give > all of my code away as I did for years at UC Berkeley, that > is no longer possible. > > Kirk McKusick > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 03:11:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00488 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:11:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from demeter.sunyit.edu (demeter2.sunyit.edu [150.156.16.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00482 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:11:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by demeter.sunyit.edu with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id GAA01268 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:11:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802041111.GAA01268@demeter.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Subject: implementing linux's clone() Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:01:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" is there any function that offers the clone() call that linux has? specifically i have to set the new process's stack frame to a specific place, and implement the linux clone features, all this is in an attempt to port wine to freebsd and also make building programs that use clone() possible under freebsd. so far i need to implement the clone features: CLONE_VM CLONE_FS CLONE_FILES and i also have to have the child process send back a SIGCHLD CLONE_VM = the parent and child both share the same virtual memory CLONE_FS = the parent and child share same filesystem (fs in the linux header file) CLONE_FILES = the parent and chile share file descriptors... the sigchild if i'm not mistaken is by default ignored in freebsd while in linux it is by default listened for? so all i would have to do there is unmask the signal, correct? maybe i'm missing something in the threads that freebsd offers.... currently the implementation of the port makes it unable to do threads, if i could emulate clone() it would be a major advantage. so far the only thing i can think of is fork'ing or rfork'ing the child process, immediately wait for a signal and then the parent would use proc_fs to munge up the stack frame and file descriptors then signal the child to proceed... i thought i had an answer with vfork(), however this seems to be a very poor choice as it doesn't really fork() it kinda just makes a backtracing point in the program as the parent is suspended while the child executes. rfork() seems to be what i need, however i'm not totally sure of the differences between it and clone() as clone seems to have more options, plus i don't know how to set the stack to point towards something else in the child process, however i have done some reading up on it: reading more into the proc_fs, this seems like the way to do it, but can i use the "regs" file in the procfs entry and change the stack register sp to point to a memory location owned by another process? would i have to mmap() it in the parent, use shared-memory? or just copy the pointer? arrrgh!!! ;) i'm also unsure of the clone'ing of the FS and VM, although FILES seems trivial enough... btw, clone is a neeto interface, but very weird... something that could be of use in freebsd as a almost lightweight way of doing nasty threads.... i don't think this should become part of freebsd as a function implemented by the kernel, but perhaps as a .c/.h combination that emulates the clone() interface, that way it might be useful to other operating systems. -Alfred From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 03:26:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA01925 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:26:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA01920 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:26:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00964; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:26:04 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199802041126.GAA00964@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: implementing linux's clone() In-Reply-To: <199802041111.GAA01268@demeter.sunyit.edu> from Alfred Perlstein at "Feb 4, 98 06:01:29 am" To: perlsta@sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:26:04 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Alfred Perlstein said: > is there any function that offers the clone() call that linux has? > > specifically i have to set the new process's stack frame to a specific > place, > and implement the linux clone features, all this is in an attempt to port > wine to freebsd and also make building programs that use clone() possible > under freebsd. > In FreeBSD-current there is such a function, but you have to be careful about setting up the stack (with the philosophy of minimizing what is in the kernel.) > > rfork() seems to be what i need, however i'm not totally sure of the > differences between it and clone() as clone seems to have more options, > plus i don't know how to set the stack to point towards something else in > the child process, however i have done some reading up on it: > Take a look at my rf.S for an example. errno is problematical with the default C lib stuff. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. .file "rf.S" #include #include "DEFS.h" #include "SYS.h" #define KERNEL #include #undef KERNEL #undef DEBUG /* * 8 12 16 20 24 28 * _rfork(flags, stack, startrtn, startarg, userrtn, arg); * * flags: RF* flags for rfork in unistd.h. * subr: subroutine to run as a thread. * stack: top of stack for thread. * arg: argument to thread. */ .stabs "rf.S",100,0,0,Ltext0 .text Ltext0: .type _thrfork,@function .stabd 68,0,1 ENTRY(thrfork) pushl %ebp movl %esp, %ebp pushl %esi /* * Push thread info onto the new thread's stack */ movl 12(%ebp), %esi / get stack addr subl $4, %esi movl 28(%ebp), %eax / get user argument movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 24(%ebp), %eax / get user thread address movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 20(%ebp), %eax / get internal argument movl %eax, (%esi) subl $4, %esi movl 16(%ebp), %eax / get internal subroutine movl %eax, (%esi) .stabd 68,0,2 /* * Prepare and execute rfork */ pushl 8(%ebp) pushl %esi leal SYS_rfork, %eax KERNCALL jb 2f .stabd 68,0,3 /* * Check to see if we are in the parent or child */ cmpl $0, %edx jnz 1f addl $8, %esp popl %esi movl %ebp, %esp popl %ebp ret .p2align 2 /* * If we are in the child (new thread), then * set-up the call to the internal subroutine. If it * returns, then call __exit. */ .stabd 68,0,4 1: movl %esi,%esp #ifdef DEBUG movl %esp, _stackaddr movl (%esp), %eax movl %eax, _stack movl 4(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+4 movl 8(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+8 movl 12(%esp), %eax movl %eax,_stack+12 #endif popl %eax #ifdef DEBUG movl %eax,_fcn #endif call %eax addl $12, %esp /* * Exit system call */ pushl %eax pushl $SYS_exit call _syscall .stabd 68,0,5 2: movl $EAGAIN, _errno movl $-1, %eax leave ret .stabs "thrfork:f67",36,0,6,_thrfork Lfe1: .size _thrfork,Lfe1-_thrfork #ifdef DEBUG .data .globl _stack _stack: .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .long 0 .globl _stackaddr _stackaddr: .long 0 .globl _fcn _fcn: .long 0 #endif From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 03:29:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA02577 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:29:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (0@ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA02561; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:29:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from yggdrasil.ifi.uio.no (2602@yggdrasil.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.182]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id MAA03364; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:26:35 +0100 (MET) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by yggdrasil.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:26:34 +0100 (MET) To: Mikael Karpberg Cc: Ruslan@Shevchenko.kiev.ua (Ruslan Shevchenko), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, config@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-faced admin References: <199802022005.VAA18349@ocean.campus.luth.se> Organization: Gutteklubben Terrasse X-url: http://www.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav) Date: 04 Feb 1998 12:26:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mikael Karpberg's message of "Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:05:32 +0100 (CET)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Mikael Karpberg writes: > Seriously, though, I think Alex has his terms all screwed up. Probably > silly enough to use a brower to send mails, and mixes up pages and mails. > I sent a suggestion to hackers@FreeBSD.ORG and config@FreeBSD.ORG, and > that's all I did. Taken from Alex' article: X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 :-O -- * Finrod (INTJ) * Unix weenie * dag-erli@ifi.uio.no * cellular +47-92835919 * RFC1123: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 06:54:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA27425 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:54:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gringo.cdrom.com (root@ppp-013.tky.exa.co.jp [210.129.93.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA27372 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:53:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@gringo.cdrom.com) Received: from gringo.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by gringo.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00343; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:30:43 -0800 (PST) To: Julian Elischer cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:21:37 PST." <34D7D0B0.500F9F30@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 06:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: <339.886602643@gringo.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" As long as you can make a "binary weapon" out of this, where we incorporate only those non-poison-pilled portions into FreeBSD (just as OpenBSD has done) and leave it up to the user to add the specially licenced files, I don't see a problem. In fact, I'd really LIKE to see this happen so that those who just want to play with the soft update code and have no commercial aspirations can do so. Heck, even the commercial folks can play, they'll just have to line up and pay Kirk like you guys did. ;) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 07:24:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01029 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:24:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beast.gu.net (beast.gu.net [194.93.190.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01006 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:24:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stesin@gu.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.gu.kiev.ua [127.0.0.1]) by beast.gu.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02873; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:22:08 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:22:08 +0200 (EET) From: Andrew Stesin Reply-To: stesin@gu.net To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-Reply-To: <339.886602643@gringo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: X-NCC-RegID: ua.gu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > As long as you can make a "binary weapon" out of this, where we > incorporate only those non-poison-pilled portions into FreeBSD (just > as OpenBSD has done) and leave it up to the user to add the specially > licenced files, I don't see a problem. In fact, I'd really LIKE to > see this happen so that those who just want to play with the soft > update code and have no commercial aspirations can do so. People, this great feature and advanced performance enhancement shouldn't be missed! It should dramatically increase the performance of say Usenet servers, or Samba/NFS fileservice etc. > Heck, > even the commercial folks can play, they'll just have to line up > and pay Kirk like you guys did. ;) A question. Say I, an ISP employer, am going to use FreeBSD as a mail-relay for my company. Just a single installation, stable FreeBSD version, probably with custom configuration and set of tools -- but not a binary FreeBSD-based product. Just a single server which works for the company and is maintained by company's personnel. Am I permitted to use the code in this situation? Another story. A customer asks me to set up a combined Internet/intranet server for him with some firewall functionality also. Ok, I'm giving him FreeBSD+IPfilter+other tools for free, taking some money for my time and work spent doing this and teaching customer's sysadmin to use the box. Is it Ok to use the code in this way? And yet another scenario. My personal workstation at work where I do some scripting, some ISP housekeeping etc. It's my *personal* workstation, -- but it is at work. Probably I'm allowed to use the code here, but am I really allowed? Thanks! > > Jordan > > Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 07:53:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06762 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:53:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from schubert.promo.de (schubert.Promo.DE [194.45.188.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06734 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:53:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from stefan@promo.de) Received: from stefan.promo.de (stefan.Promo.DE [194.45.188.81]) by schubert.promo.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA28803; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:48:01 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 16:50:28 +0100 From: "Stefan Bethke" To: stesin@gu.net, "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Julian Elischer" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. Message-ID: <1226911.3095599828@stefan.promo.de> X-Mailer: Mulberry Demo (MacOS) [1.4.0a1, s/n Evaluation] X-Licensed-To: Unlicensed - for evaluation only MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" --On Mit, 4. Feb 1998 17:22 Uhr +0200 "Andrew Stesin" wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > >> As long as you can make a "binary weapon" out of this, where we >> incorporate only those non-poison-pilled portions into FreeBSD (just >> as OpenBSD has done) and leave it up to the user to add the specially >> licenced files, I don't see a problem. In fact, I'd really LIKE to >> see this happen so that those who just want to play with the soft >> update code and have no commercial aspirations can do so. > > People, this great feature and advanced performance enhancement > shouldn't be missed! It should dramatically increase > the performance of say Usenet servers, or Samba/NFS > fileservice etc. [...] Maybe I got this completely wrong, but "commercial aspirations" doesn't mean "make monay from running the software" but rather "making money by selling the software". As Kirk quite clearly stated, he doesn't want to hinder people from using the code, but wants "FreeBSD OEMs" (like Whistle) to pay him a fair share for his work. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Promo Datentechnik | Tel. +49-40-851744-18 + Systemberatung GmbH | Fax. +49-40-851744-44 Eduardstrasse 46-48 | e-mail: stefan@Promo.DE D-20257 Hamburg | http://www.Promo.DE/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19282 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:14:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19055 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03080; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:13:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199802041713.JAA03080@austin.polstra.com> To: xavier@stlnet.com Subject: Re: Problems linking shared libraries with ld In-Reply-To: <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com> References: <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:13:47 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In article <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com>, Jon E. Kump wrote: > I am writing some code that I am linking in 11 shared libraries and one > static library. When ld goes to link the code I get an error from ld. > > ld: No reference to __DYNAMIC > > This is my make file that i am using. This program is a little 20 line > example. > > CC = gcc > CFLAGS = -g -funroll-loops -Wall -pipe -ansi > LDFLAGS = -Bdynamic > CPPFLAGS = > INCLUDES = -I. -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include > LIBDIR = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib > LIBS = -lXm -lXpm -lXmu -lXt -lXext -lX11 -lXmHTML -lSM -lICE -ljpeg > -lpng -lz -lm > LOADLIBES = $(LIBDIR) $(LIBS) > > OBJS = autosize_html.o > > all: $(OBJS) autosize_html > > autosize_html.o: autosize_html.c > $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(CPPFLAGS) $(INCLUDES) -c $< > > autosize_html: $(OBJS) > ld $(LDFLAGS) $(LOADLIBES) -o autosize_html $(OBJS) There are several problems with this makefile. First, all of your libraries must be listed at the _end_ of the linker command, i.e., _after_ all of the object files. Otherwise, the libraries will ignored, more or less. Second, all dynamic executables have to be linked with "/usr/lib/crt0.o" as the very first object file. The fact that you didn't do that is the source of the "No reference to __DYNAMIC" diagnostic. But the real problem is that you shouldn't be using "ld" directly for linking. Use "cc" instead, like this: $(CC) -o autosize_html $(OBJS) $(LDFLAGS) $(LOADLIBES) The exact command for linking an executable is different on practically every platform in existence. The "cc" command knows the idiosyncrasies of your platform, and it does the right thing. It's a much more portable way to build programs than using "ld" directly. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:15:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19764 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:15:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19703 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:15:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03109; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:15:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199802041715.JAA03109@austin.polstra.com> To: xavier@stlnet.com Subject: Re: Problems linking shared libraries with ld In-Reply-To: <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com> References: <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:15:37 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" In article <34D76A00.3F9F4818@stlnet.com>, Jon E. Kump wrote: > LDFLAGS = -Bdynamic I missed this in the other reply that I just sent. When you change your makefile to link using "$(CC)", get rid of this "-Bdynamic" option. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22310 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:22:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from demeter.sunyit.edu (demeter2.sunyit.edu [150.156.16.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22220; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:22:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from win95.local.sunyit.edu (A-T34.rh.sunyit.edu [150.156.210.241]) by demeter.sunyit.edu with ESMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id MAA18385; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:22:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802041722.MAA18385@demeter.sunyit.edu> From: "Alfred Perlstein" To: Cc: Subject: Re: implementing linux's clone() Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:18:17 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" hmmm very interesting, thank you. before i cvsup to -current i was wondering if the fuction is "clone-like" or really just like clone(), will i be disapointed by its functionality because of what i need from it? and what do you mean, you have to be careful what you pass it on the stack? that doesn't mean you can crash BSD with an innapropriate call does it? just that if you give bad args your program will segfault or something? also, if i modded the below asm stuff not to __exit after return would that "work" or is there something i'm not seeing? and what is the "arg" parameter, a pointer to the thread function's arguments? thanks for the help, -Alfred > Alfred Perlstein said: > > is there any function that offers the clone() call that linux has? > > > > specifically i have to set the new process's stack frame to a specific > > place, > > and implement the linux clone features, all this is in an attempt to port > > wine to freebsd and also make building programs that use clone() possible > > under freebsd. > > > In FreeBSD-current there is such a function, but you have to be careful > about setting up the stack (with the philosophy of minimizing what is > in the kernel.) > > > > > rfork() seems to be what i need, however i'm not totally sure of the > > differences between it and clone() as clone seems to have more options, > > plus i don't know how to set the stack to point towards something else in > > the child process, however i have done some reading up on it: > > > Take a look at my rf.S for an example. errno is problematical with the > default C lib stuff. > > -- > John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, > dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, > jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. > > > .file "rf.S" > #include > #include "DEFS.h" > #include "SYS.h" > #define KERNEL > #include > #undef KERNEL > > #undef DEBUG > > /* > * 8 12 16 20 24 28 > * _rfork(flags, stack, startrtn, startarg, userrtn, arg); > * > * flags: RF* flags for rfork in unistd.h. > * subr: subroutine to run as a thread. > * stack: top of stack for thread. > * arg: argument to thread. > */ > .stabs "rf.S",100,0,0,Ltext0 > .text > Ltext0: > .type _thrfork,@function > .stabd 68,0,1 > ENTRY(thrfork) > pushl %ebp > movl %esp, %ebp > pushl %esi > > /* > * Push thread info onto the new thread's stack > */ > movl 12(%ebp), %esi / get stack addr > > subl $4, %esi > movl 28(%ebp), %eax / get user argument > movl %eax, (%esi) > > subl $4, %esi > movl 24(%ebp), %eax / get user thread address > movl %eax, (%esi) > > subl $4, %esi > movl 20(%ebp), %eax / get internal argument > movl %eax, (%esi) > > subl $4, %esi > movl 16(%ebp), %eax / get internal subroutine > movl %eax, (%esi) > > .stabd 68,0,2 > /* > * Prepare and execute rfork > */ > pushl 8(%ebp) > pushl %esi > leal SYS_rfork, %eax > KERNCALL > jb 2f > > .stabd 68,0,3 > /* > * Check to see if we are in the parent or child > */ > cmpl $0, %edx > jnz 1f > addl $8, %esp > popl %esi > movl %ebp, %esp > popl %ebp > ret > .p2align 2 > > /* > * If we are in the child (new thread), then > * set-up the call to the internal subroutine. If it > * returns, then call __exit. > */ > .stabd 68,0,4 > 1: > movl %esi,%esp > #ifdef DEBUG > movl %esp, _stackaddr > movl (%esp), %eax > movl %eax, _stack > movl 4(%esp), %eax > movl %eax,_stack+4 > movl 8(%esp), %eax > movl %eax,_stack+8 > movl 12(%esp), %eax > movl %eax,_stack+12 > #endif > popl %eax > #ifdef DEBUG > movl %eax,_fcn > #endif > call %eax > addl $12, %esp > > /* > * Exit system call > */ > pushl %eax > pushl $SYS_exit > call _syscall > > .stabd 68,0,5 > 2: movl $EAGAIN, _errno > movl $-1, %eax > leave > ret > .stabs "thrfork:f67",36,0,6,_thrfork > Lfe1: > .size _thrfork,Lfe1-_thrfork > > #ifdef DEBUG > .data > .globl _stack > _stack: .long 0 > .long 0 > .long 0 > .long 0 > .long 0 > .globl _stackaddr > _stackaddr: .long 0 > .globl _fcn > _fcn: .long 0 > #endif From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:48:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA27682 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:48:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA27588 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:48:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from pedro.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.43]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with SMTP id AAA11205; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:51:06 +0500 Message-ID: <34D8A874.167EB0E7@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:42:12 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <339.886602643@gringo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a "GPL or pay" type of license. If you look at it with detail: it's even less restricted than GPL because you can actually hide the code and do whatever you want with it if you pay the correct price. I think this should even be in the generic boot floppy, the problem would be isolating the "special licensed" files, similarly to what is done with GNU code. Did I read something wrong here? Pedro. Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > As long as you can make a "binary weapon" out of this, where we > incorporate only those non-poison-pilled portions into FreeBSD (just > as OpenBSD has done) and leave it up to the user to add the specially > licenced files, I don't see a problem. In fact, I'd really LIKE to > see this happen so that those who just want to play with the soft > update code and have no commercial aspirations can do so. Heck, > even the commercial folks can play, they'll just have to line up > and pay Kirk like you guys did. ;) > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA28920 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:53:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA28891 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:53:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Anthony.Kimball@East.Sun.COM) Received: from East.Sun.COM ([129.148.1.241]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id JAA26719 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:52:40 -0800 Received: from suneast.East.Sun.COM by East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id MAA05296; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:52:37 -0500 Received: from compound.east.sun.com by suneast.East.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA03820; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:52:37 -0500 Received: (from alk@localhost) by compound.east.sun.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA17892; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:52:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:52:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802041752.LAA17892@compound.east.sun.com> From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: alk@pobox.com To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: wd0s1e hard errors References: <199802041454.GAA27432@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under 19.14 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Should bad144 be retired? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:54:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA29252 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:54:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po1.bbn.com (PO1.BBN.COM [192.1.50.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29091 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:53:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dennis@bbn.com) Received: from bbn.com (DROCKWELL.BBN.COM [128.89.31.139]) by po1.bbn.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA23195 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:52:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802041752.MAA23195@po1.bbn.com> To: "hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Shared memory and signals In-reply-to: Message from Michael Schuster <34D8136F.CF845A68@utimaco.co.at> . X-face: &R'hN{mZu#r@8b_JU\bn"!fYpP{?5k4p/(|]?.2'6;>Dc9}~t*vY=/#-:"63ya.%)%o`Kv$ u&'Ff5k&n[}QC;j7YYsR5Hl]G"E:*9Zmw;dx[sw&9Tmx_PB/7B`RdFW;#@49hJU&kW+J"<[`9^?.dQ 3]L$zK,4'=tThX$wC!M\`e*@1y Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:53:43 -0500 From: Dennis Rockwell Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On 4 Feb, Michael Schuster wrote: > You probably wouldn't want to do that, since shmctl(IPC_RMID,..) really > removes the shm segment, and other processes trying to use it wouldn't > be very happy about that ... > You could find out about the number of attached processes/threads using > something like: > > int fd; > struct shmid_ds sInfo; > > shmctl (fd, IPC_STAT, &sInfo); > > if (sInfo.shm_nattch > 1) > shmctl (fd, IPC_RMID, NULL); Isn't this backwards? (nattach <= 1) Also, this looks like a race condition just waiting to be lost. Dennis Rockwell dennis@bbn.com GTE Internetworking BBN Technologies +1-617-873-5745 Cambridge, MA +1-617-873-6091 (Fax) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 09:59:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA00568 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:59:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA00530 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:58:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02479; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:57:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199802041757.JAA02479@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Julian Elischer , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:42:12 EST." <34D8A874.167EB0E7@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:57:36 -0800 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Yeah, You miss the part where we can download the code from. While would be legalese argue about the merit, interpretation or implementation of Kirk's license , I just want at least an ftp pointer to down load soft updates for FreeBSD-current. Cheers, Amancio > I'm not a lawyer, but this seems like a "GPL or pay" type of license. If > you look at it with detail: it's even less restricted than GPL because > you can actually hide the code and do whatever you want with it if you > pay the correct price. > I think this should even be in the generic boot floppy, the problem > would be isolating the "special licensed" files, similarly to what is > done with GNU code. > Did I read something wrong here? > > Pedro. > > Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > As long as you can make a "binary weapon" out of this, where we > > incorporate only those non-poison-pilled portions into FreeBSD (just > > as OpenBSD has done) and leave it up to the user to add the specially > > licenced files, I don't see a problem. In fact, I'd really LIKE to > > see this happen so that those who just want to play with the soft > > update code and have no commercial aspirations can do so. Heck, > > even the commercial folks can play, they'll just have to line up > > and pay Kirk like you guys did. ;) > > > > Jordan > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 10:39:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08095 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:39:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br (fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br [200.255.244.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07970 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:38:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulo@fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br) Received: from fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br (fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br [200.255.244.88]) by fiscodata-pr.netpar.com.br (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15999; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:41:23 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:41:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Paulo Cesar Pereira de Andrade To: John Polstra cc: xavier@stlnet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problems linking shared libraries with ld In-Reply-To: <199802041713.JAA03080@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, John Polstra wrote: > But the real problem is that you shouldn't be using "ld" directly > for linking. Use "cc" instead, like this: > > $(CC) -o autosize_html $(OBJS) $(LDFLAGS) $(LOADLIBES) > > The exact command for linking an executable is different on > practically every platform in existence. The "cc" command knows the > idiosyncrasies of your platform, and it does the right thing. It's a > much more portable way to build programs than using "ld" directly. > Complementing John's posting, since its a X program, you should use a Imakefile. Here's one that should fit your needs: ----------------- CDEBUGFLAGS = -g -Wall INCLUDES = -I/usr/local/include LOCAL_LIBRARIES = $(XMLIB) $(XTOOLLIB) $(XMULIB) $(XLIB) $(XPMLIB)\ -L/usr/local/lib -lXmHTML -ljpeg -lpng -lz -lm SimpleProgramTarget(autosize_html) ----------------- -- Don't get suckered in by the comments -- they can be terribly misleading. Debug only code. -- Dave Storer From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 10:42:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09098 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:42:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09023 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:41:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18326; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd018323; Wed Feb 4 10:35:16 1998 Message-ID: <34D8B40B.41C67EA6@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:31:39 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: Kirk McKusick , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <199802041037.CAA00427@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Cool, so whats next for hackers like me to get hold of the code 8) > there are two issues.. patches to the present sources and new code. I am mostly done with the patches. and I have changed the new code to work with FreeBSD. Whistle owns this work, however the patches will probably make their way back into -current at some stage. the new code itself will possibly have to be fetched by each user, maybe kirk might set up a 'sign-to-get-it web page or something. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 10:42:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09470 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpo.whistle.com (alpo.whistle.com [207.76.204.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09330 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@whistle.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alpo.whistle.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18540; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from UNKNOWN(), claiming to be "current1.whistle.com" via SMTP by alpo.whistle.com, id smtpd018523; Wed Feb 4 10:40:10 1998 Message-ID: <34D8B532.794BDF32@whistle.com> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:36:34 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Organization: Whistle Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty CC: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: kirk's soft-update integration.. References: <199802041757.JAA02479@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Amancio Hasty wrote: > > Yeah, You miss the part where we can download the code from. > > While would be legalese argue about the merit, interpretation > or implementation of Kirk's license , I just want at least an ftp > pointer to down load soft updates for FreeBSD-current. > > Cheers, > Amancio > wait till we get it finished ok? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 10:52:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA12533 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:52:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at (loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12517 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:52:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pmeerw@cosy.sbg.ac.at) Received: from laus.cosy.sbg.ac.at (root@laus.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.42]) by loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24119; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:38:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from laus.cosy.sbg.ac.at (pmeerw@laus.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.42]) by laus.cosy.sbg.ac.at (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA01191; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:15:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:15:18 +0100 (CET) From: Peter Meerwald To: sthaug@nethelp.no cc: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: network LKM driver In-Reply-To: <22361.886371849@verdi.nethelp.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" > I made the modloadable version. It was based on the original from John > Ioannidis, with bits and pieces for the modloading/unloading stolen > shamelessly from several different places :-) (The route invalidation > and interface detach parts are from ppp-2.1.2.) It was basically just > a question of putting the code fragments together the right way... putting code fragments together :) vif's if_delete_route() looks quite different than the relevant code from BSD's rtrequest() Thank you for pointing me - ehmm - somewhere :) Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 11:48:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23350 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:48:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from garbo.lodgenet.com (garbo.lodgenet.com [204.124.122.252]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA23338 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:48:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnp@lodgenet.com) Received: from milo.lodgenet.com (milo.lodgenet.com [10.0.122.42]) by garbo.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA00705 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:44:08 -0600 Received: from milo.lodgenet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by milo.lodgenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19731 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:47:52 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199802041947.NAA19731@milo.lodgenet.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0gamma 1/27/96 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: xntpd Reply-To: johnp@lodgenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:47:52 -0600 From: John Prince Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I remember reading a thread describing how to... set up xntpd to reference the local hosts CMOS clock.. Can anyone help?? Thanks in advance, --John From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 11:49:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23717 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:49:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from iconmail.bellatlantic.net (iconmail.bellatlantic.net [199.173.162.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23682 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:49:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmm125@bellatlantic.net) Received: from myname.my.domain (client201-122-21.bellatlantic.net [151.201.122.21]) by iconmail.bellatlantic.net (IConNet Sendmail) with SMTP id OAA04120 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:46:28 -0500 (EST) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:44:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Donn Miller X-Sender: dmm125@myname.my.domain To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: latest wine && seg-faults on freebsd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" I just compiled the latest wine (wine980201) and it compiled great, except that I got seg-faults and dropped core every time I tried to run it. So then I compiled with the -g flag and debugged it. Here is the output of gdb: Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld.so...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4.10...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6.3...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6.3...done. Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.1...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0...done. Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0...done. #0 0x1be651 in NtCurrentTeb () at sysdeps.c:140 140 __asm__( ".byte 0x64\n\tmovl (%1),%0" (gdb) I compiled this ``straight out of the box'' instead of using FreeBSD's port collection and was interested in hearing from the person doing the latest ports to FreeBSD on what he/she did to correct this. I guessing that it has something to do with threading (not X-windows threads but libc). Donn From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 11:51:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24500 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:51:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA24482; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:51:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Majordomo-Owner@FreeBSD.ORG) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:51:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802041951.LAA24482@hub.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-hackers From: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Confirmation for subscribe freebsd-announce Reply-To: Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" -- Please be sure to read the charters before subscribing or sending mail to any FreeBSD mailing list for an explanation of which topics are relevant for a given list and what types of postings are and are not allowed. They may be found at: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/eresources:charters.html Someone (possibly you) has requested that your email address be added to or deleted from the mailing list "freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.ORG". If you really want this action to be taken, please send the following commands (exactly as shown) back to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG": auth 0d23967d subscribe freebsd-announce freebsd-hackers If you do not want this action to be taken, simply ignore this message and the request will be disregarded. If your mailer will not allow you to send the entire command as a single line, you may split it using backslashes, like so: auth 0d23967d subscribe freebsd-announce \ freebsd-hackers If you have any questions about the policy of the list owner, please contact "freebsd-announce-approval@FreeBSD.ORG". Thanks! Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 12:37:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04031 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:37:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from d198-232.uoregon.edu (d198-232.uoregon.edu [128.223.198.232]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04020; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:36:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mini@d198-232.uoregon.edu) Received: (from mini@localhost) by d198-232.uoregon.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07531; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:36:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19980204123632.41455@micron.mini.net> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:36:32 -0800 From: Jonathan Mini To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: character-set information for terminals. Reply-To: Jonathan Mini Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e X-files: The Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Does anybody know how you determine what font/character-set a given TTY is using? AFAICT, it is contained in the termcap database, but on examination, I can't find any immediatly obvious way to determining this. -- Jonathan Mini (j_mini@efn.org) "A child of five could understand this! Quick -- Fetch me a child of five." From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 14:09:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA22228 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:09:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22186 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:09:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id VAA08059 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:38:45 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199802042038.VAA08059@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: is anyone using the Transputer driver ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:38:45 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Well, just wondering, is someone still using the Transputer (aka bqu) driver I wrote long ago ? In case, I'd have an idea for a performance improvement (especially for PCI interfaces) but I don't have the hardware to test it anymore... So if you use the driver, and are willing to do a simple test, please email me. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 14:18:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24128 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:18:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mph124.rh.psu.edu (mph@MPH124.rh.psu.edu [128.118.126.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24088 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:18:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mph@mph124.rh.psu.edu) Received: (from mph@localhost) by mph124.rh.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA03070; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:18:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980204171825.37788@mph124.rh.psu.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:18:25 -0500 From: Matthew Hunt To: johnp@lodgenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: xntpd References: <199802041947.NAA19731@milo.lodgenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i In-Reply-To: <199802041947.NAA19731@milo.lodgenet.com>; from John Prince on Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 01:47:52PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 01:47:52PM -0600, John Prince wrote: > I remember reading a thread describing how to... > set up xntpd to reference the local hosts CMOS clock.. > Can anyone help?? You want lines like these in /etc/ntp.conf: server 127.127.1.1 # Local clock fudge 127.127.1.1 stratum 8 The "fudge" line increases the stratum of the local clock, so that xntpd will prefer "real" authoritative clocks, if you have one available. I don't know that the local clock is the CMOS clock; it is more likely the clock maintained by the OS. -- Matthew Hunt * Think locally, act globally. http://mph124.rh.psu.edu/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 14:43:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA29442 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:43:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29347; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:42:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01489; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:42:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) Message-Id: <199802042242.RAA01489@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: implementing linux's clone() In-Reply-To: <199802041722.MAA18385@demeter.sunyit.edu> from Alfred Perlstein at "Feb 4, 98 12:18:17 pm" To: perlsta@sunyit.edu (Alfred Perlstein) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:42:52 -0500 (EST) Cc: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: "John S. Dyson" Reply-To: dyson@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" Alfred Perlstein said: > hmmm very interesting, thank you. > > before i cvsup to -current i was wondering if the fuction is "clone-like" > or really just like clone(), will i be disapointed by its functionality > because of what i need from it? > It is still not in it's final form. It is usable, and is being used commercially by my employer though. > > and what do you mean, you have to be careful what you pass it on the stack? > Simply that setting the stack is tricky, since it isn't done in the kernel. Using the memory sharing capability with RFMEM is tricky because of the stack issues. > > that doesn't mean you can crash BSD with an innapropriate call does it? > No. > > just that if you give bad args your program will segfault or something? > It means that my rf.S example code is the way to set the stack. > > also, if i modded the below asm stuff not to __exit after return would that > "work" or is there something i'm not seeing? > I am not sure. > > and what is the "arg" > parameter, a pointer to the thread function's arguments? > Yes. I haven't documented things in detail, because frankly, other things have gotten in the way of our pthreads stuff, and I have held-up someone else who has been working on a real pthreads capability. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@freebsd.org | it just makes you look stupid, jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 15:18:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06272 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:18:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from demeter.sunyit.edu (demeter2.sunyit.edu [150.156.16.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06202 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:18:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from perlsta@sunyit.edu) Received: from localhost (perlsta@localhost) by demeter.sunyit.edu with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA09121; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:56:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:56:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alfred Perlstein To: Donn Miller cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: latest wine && seg-faults on freebsd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" i've been working on the freebsd port to wine "unofficially" well the problem lies in the fact that freebsd doesn't support the clone() system call directly, i'm working on finding a suitable replacement, someone on the list already gave me a lot of useful information towards accomplishing this. the original port includes patches for two things: fixes that translate what wine expects the procfs to look like, AND which is very irritating it basically comments out all support for threads... if you look in the file "sysdep.c" (i forget which dir, as i'm not at my jerkstation right now) you will see a LOT of code that gets removed by the CPP preprocessor because FreeBSD doesn't support clone(), my thoughts are that clone is a nasty, yucky thing, it's cool but i don't think it exists anywhere else but on linux. i'm trying to get some sort of emulation going. what is going on is that the thread that is NOT being created is being referenced by that segment of asm code what it translates to is: move the longword pointed to by the extra-segment 'fs' into a variable. the ugly fix ugly is to basically just comment out the body of the function and make it return 0 all the time, I will be working on this for a while trying to fix wine for freebsd anyway if you follow the above advice and comment/undefine the code, it gets farther, but then crashes in weird spot that i've yet to figure out, but i only got it to that point last night at 4am ;) you might have to upgrade to -current for the patches i plan to work on, as -current includes better support for a clone-like call. -Alfred please, please, please, if you think you have the ability, fire up xxgdb and help me debug this, i'm a good programmer, but i'm not terribly familiar with the FreeBSD internals On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Donn Miller wrote: > I just compiled the latest wine (wine980201) and it compiled great, except > that I got seg-faults and dropped core every time I tried to run it. So > then I compiled with the -g flag and debugged it. Here is the output of > gdb: > > Reading symbols from /usr/libexec/ld.so...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.so.4.10...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6.0...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6.3...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6.3...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6.1...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libm.so.2.0...done. > Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libc.so.3.0...done. > #0 0x1be651 in NtCurrentTeb () at sysdeps.c:140 > 140 __asm__( ".byte 0x64\n\tmovl (%1),%0" > (gdb) > > I compiled this ``straight out of the box'' instead of using FreeBSD's > port collection and was interested in hearing from the person doing the > latest ports to FreeBSD on what he/she did to correct this. I guessing > that it has something to do with threading (not X-windows threads but > libc). > > Donn > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 4 15:25:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07428 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:25:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07414; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:25:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [194.198.43.36]) by ns1.yes.no (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29581; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:25:08 GMT Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA05583; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:25:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19980205002503.34361@follo.net> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:25:03 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: cvs-committers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/conf options src/sys/gnu/ext2fs ext2_alloc.c ext2_balloc.c ext2_inode.c ext2_lookup.c ext2_subr.c ext2_vnops.c src/sys/i386/i386 busdma_machdep.c machdep.c pmap.c swtch.s trap.c vm86.c vm_machdep.c src/sys/i386/ibcs2 ibcs2_sysi86. Reply-To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <199802042234.OAA23694@freefall.freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <199802042234.OAA23694@freefall.freebsd.org>; from Eivind Eklund on Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 02:34:06PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG X-To-Unsubscribe: mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org "unsubscribe hackers" [Cc:'ed to committers as it is important all that all committers read at least the preliminary] On Wed, Feb 04, 1998 at 02:34:06PM -0800, Eivind Eklund wrote: > eivind 1998/02/04 14:34:05 PST > > Modified files: [...] > Log: > Turn DIAGNOSTIC into a new-style option. This mark the last of the old-style option conversions; please don't introduce any new ones (globally, that is - the old style is still convenient for local testing). The only old-style option left is DEBUG; it means a lot of different things different places, and should probably mainly be used by rm file.o; make CC="cc -DDEBUG" to add debugging to particular places. So, it is not being converted :-) In fact, I'm considering converting many of the other debug options to this form. On further work: Unless somebody come up with a better scheme, I'm going to go through all the header files looking for option dependencies, and add #if defined(COMPILING_LINT) && !defined(