From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 19 00:00:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F7A2B15A0 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 00:00:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wfdudley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 494VMn1hzWz47sT for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 00:00:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wfdudley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id a2so1005901oia.11 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:00:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=6TsWwY9rBASsVwjFUFK3S9g6N1Ky/WEFneE8lTYMs+s=; b=h8JmUdesrwnwhBa3J911UYJ0mYEBoR4PVPGZmYIPfSqWB020+0V/aX0qurrZ4nJQQJ qzsDaTc0CqXMgzC7tHzn5wEmGXQKRG/GLt+MwGze3xTK3cCU5NW1wKtUlDs8lcsFokO5 ewWdC5OeI7TRVL61xPy/C10UvGNAs1VgOBxl345oz062sCiH+t+iPQFq5bPlo/Ndh0Yr BtCHS65iIq/z4vQX+jBjLJkIBJ9YebXddpy9StSUWzpoMe5PV4AlpJ8bXQ5aBZfREblG XzR1kH5NVFIh0FwDRFn4Izs6dKjPb0IK80mn9+FcN7Lafl1ZSefR+naDXlQvFk6pPm/p LK+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=6TsWwY9rBASsVwjFUFK3S9g6N1Ky/WEFneE8lTYMs+s=; b=uGx1yhAs9arWuQ8jV3/2rNBfaM69rjZ09wU3q8vZ7dUwUrUj5zoXIvrTdyypwwr9od yxCHr7pBtdg2TGDJarcx1ncqcFEGEA/JuDZGztNNiv6ER+Q666mA8yDnr8VxCq3WV7em 9oJoJj036lFtQ9snEHX9TcdHT5CQf6FQ/zqMk2schvK5fY6g6es7SgHXj6Yc0eNJbwE6 NQkieG0OGkCaIpRX/6D9UOhTHejRfTEkEOwg+3SSQQ3A7LHthSM3SsQMOcG/Qt7PScy7 dtQVSIJFdQNSgXRyJX4Wa4JrxeU/NvrgVYF8j2RkR3M8/soaZHDl5ZpDEt9HbkvdDoTk e8ag== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY6gZM737ZIi4urNysPkPRSjnzdHAZXo6cWwBQOvhOh6pxaocsn wb92Vz4vN4Wswhbi/wgCthgowN7u2nDfKAMNuXWh3P/z X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLWDJPvitMpF/J1ensVFR0COLzW5uMy9OZq1ty246TPqE5lpxpAIPnwTGf+E1T7Sf7p704SP3WWY+4vjelJwfk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4bc2:: with SMTP id y185mr6403122oia.164.1587254435457; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:00:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200417120548.GC894@rancor.immure.com> <5dada2a9-6348-be80-b51b-303ff5b8790c@druid.net> <20200417150551.GD894@rancor.immure.com> <20200417125102642315039@bob.proulx.com> In-Reply-To: <20200417125102642315039@bob.proulx.com> From: William Dudley Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 20:00:23 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Is there a standalone spreadsheet program available for Freebsd? Cc: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 494VMn1hzWz47sT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=h8JmUdes; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wfdudley@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wfdudley@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MISSING_TO(2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.82), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 00:00:38 -0000 pkg search sc | grep spreadsheet: sc-7.16_3 Curses-based spreadsheet program Which doesn't use X. If you're comfortable with vi, you'll like sc. I used to use this as part of a larger program. Bill Dudley On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:06 PM Bob Proulx wrote: > > Bob Willcox wrote: > > What I would like would be something simple w/o lots of features as my intended > > use is simple. I just want to be able to list expense items and their cost and > > have them added up as a monthly expense budget. That's all. > > For such things I have been using 'ledger'. It's in the package > database. (Although I personally use 'hledger', a friendly fork, more.) > > $ pkg search ledger > ledger-3.1.1_18 John Wiegley's command line accounting program > > You can learn more about such tools here. > > https://plaintextaccounting.org/ > > Something like ledger (or hledger) might be exactly what you want. > > Bob > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 19 13:08:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDECC2C57DC for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (108-84-10-9.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [108.84.10.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "darth.immure.com", Issuer "darth.immure.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 494qsC3xYKz4FPt for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: from rancor.immure.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03JD8ecZ021710 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:08:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob@rancor.immure.com) Received: (from bob@localhost) by rancor.immure.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03JD8eFN021709; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:08:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bob) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:08:40 -0500 From: Bob Willcox To: William Dudley Cc: freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Is there a standalone spreadsheet program available for Freebsd? Message-ID: <20200419130840.GA21649@rancor.immure.com> Reply-To: Bob Willcox References: <20200417120548.GC894@rancor.immure.com> <5dada2a9-6348-be80-b51b-303ff5b8790c@druid.net> <20200417150551.GD894@rancor.immure.com> <20200417125102642315039@bob.proulx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 494qsC3xYKz4FPt X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@rancor.immure.com has no SPF policy when checking 108.84.10.9) smtp.mailfrom=bob@rancor.immure.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[bob@immure.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.28)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 108.64.0.0/11(0.07), asn: 7018(1.23), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[immure.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.960,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.998,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7018, ipnet:108.64.0.0/11, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bob@immure.com,bob@rancor.immure.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:48 -0000 Thanks Bill, I now recall using sc many years ago and I believe that it, or its spin-off, sc-im, is exactly what I'm looking for. Bob On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 08:00:23PM -0400, William Dudley wrote: > pkg search sc | grep spreadsheet: > > sc-7.16_3 Curses-based spreadsheet program > > Which doesn't use X. If you're comfortable with vi, > you'll like sc. > > I used to use this as part of a larger program. > > Bill Dudley > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:06 PM Bob Proulx wrote: > > > > Bob Willcox wrote: > > > What I would like would be something simple w/o lots of features as my intended > > > use is simple. I just want to be able to list expense items and their cost and > > > have them added up as a monthly expense budget. That's all. > > > > For such things I have been using 'ledger'. It's in the package > > database. (Although I personally use 'hledger', a friendly fork, more.) > > > > $ pkg search ledger > > ledger-3.1.1_18 John Wiegley's command line accounting program > > > > You can learn more about such tools here. > > > > https://plaintextaccounting.org/ > > > > Something like ledger (or hledger) might be exactly what you want. > > > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Bob Willcox | It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to bob@immure.com | serve as a warning to others. Austin, TX | From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 19 12:09:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6201D2C3F64 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:09:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-oi1-x241.google.com (mail-oi1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 494pXf3VCWz48xY for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:09:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-oi1-x241.google.com with SMTP id k9so6331617oia.8 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 05:09:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZwhIX1nv97rlWtjvihQiElrzUJ1BT9Nl3okC5yo6YSQ=; b=EVkNCyw1aIt4k2EphUqjIDSVhkrn6plJzW5Me6d2cGJePyxPAuYGpAxwA2pWOv8Irw /H9AuEgPFnynIQK9ndqiqI6xqpAdLcPFn07YrbEubTkrotkUMUHp29bbzzAdeXkAFTs+ qwpiT7ltmZyeYIpfZ5tqkFzK/iBL2AU60xV5GZ8ArpTH4rlp0I2+/cq7EN+5UxQ/daU0 mY6DMp1ZQoVuZ+FiQLceG/F1A7O5OcvQxJ3D9JXnu9Slj0vIuRGyC2nIx2+tGWbN+/Yh uIec71OSXGXLSzUJHtYaPo/oNvJscEqbIBQH2KLeaFJQDzbW+f8umubNASNlH9UQtkXw qE3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZwhIX1nv97rlWtjvihQiElrzUJ1BT9Nl3okC5yo6YSQ=; b=lYmsBe2vOn3N08uZDEys86IfILkpQJBiI+Udo69EriKQo2IylbkxKvIoqLF8ysQnlX yPrDA5JUozH8ZENhGh7JVf2sXkteoWyqnaqE5u/AoekPZUKoXbedT/9zddnE2jbAbTbz rs+6stRO9F1qV9rp+hd3Jbfp7fVvLyVlLT+apY3/6wbJo092iEhKIAAzHt3ubU4Umq0O wuroVNKC+yDL2reFQyHlVuQVZglZ+Weh7pkNAUeLJA/cT2EpgG59OdSjV+ptGbPzZTJV 8jQ2S5yqxGDSebMs2w/NEdkXQdrbJFhl3vHjOPonxrM2fUvW7UGzJ+MBLAHDZkRqObhx XkpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ4IghDPzfBzmalf7iR02Gt3sU3B5yZ9JuD6dUuU+ir/gDxCPdf l3lsTByGr0oENjtoypB+kymNgGir2y4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL3aCIMzW6eZE9G70qCDpPs4mK8rMAAjgz/E0SS7pAZrIlZjCChG527dT5Uw3R+JXEWNvLsnA== X-Received: by 2002:aca:ddc4:: with SMTP id u187mr7788118oig.129.1587298161488; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 05:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-f49.google.com (mail-ot1-f49.google.com. [209.85.210.49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o186sm9533993oia.27.2020.04.19.05.09.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f49.google.com with SMTP id b13so5541711oti.3; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7ca:: with SMTP id 68mr5989874oto.267.1587298160200; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 14:08:50 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Cc: Jan Beich , Shane Ambler , "ngor@antonovs.family" , "raichoo@acmelabs.space" , "contact@evilham.com" , gljennjohn@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 494pXf3VCWz48xY X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=EVkNCyw1; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::241) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.14)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:43:18 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 12:09:23 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 1:50 PM Jan Beich wrote: > Many, bsdstats.org should have some numbers from those who opted in. > wlroots-based compositors have very good support and can be tested > without leaving the comfort zone of xorg-server: > > - x11-wm/cage: kiosk, good for nesting > - x11-wm/hikari: stacking with some tiling, developed on FreeBSD > - x11-wm/sway: manual tiling, often first to adopt new wlroots features > - x11-wm/wayfire: stacking with some tiling, many plugins > > Elsewhere the situation isn't as good (correct me): > - Gnome Wayland is stable upstream but not ported due to logind (from systemd) > - KDE5 on Wayland maybe buggy upstream and hasn't been QA'd on FreeBSD by kde@ team yet > - Enlightenment in ports/ currently fails to build with Wayland support > - Weston port is abandoned due to being poor fit for day-to-day usage > > I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example, > "vblank_mode=0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg server. ;) I am working on Enlightenment 0.23.1 that has Wayland support, its full featured WM with long tradition, works not stable, second new life sparked recently, the patch has been updated (big thank you to Shane Ambler), the new version should show up in the port tree shortly :-) https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245596 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245594 I can see there is already a Wayland community here in FreeBSD why don't we update WIKI to make it work ouf of the box if its that good as people say?? :-) I have no access to edit WIKI and I am really surprised it seems dead.. What better place to keep frequently updated as central point of information? External forums like Linux? :-( PLEASE BRING BACK THE FREEBSD WIKI TO LIFE :-) Best regards :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 19 15:01:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C2D27852C for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:01:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-ot1-x32b.google.com (mail-ot1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 494tLv0NqJz4QGC for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:01:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-ot1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id z17so5776628oto.4 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:01:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=X7Z4/bFgWkOFpW7wvvc9aS5AA/oVV9567dToGZqtSKQ=; b=jkJeG+aSSlJoEEHWqylB4/K0ytz9O1cSX432OxA1Ld5vEBqySzqK+eLzDd4qTKnNpw ZXeuHiFPidTD0qhtrRVpndJCDPLmWrX7cjJYznypiO8TACkBR4Ez99XPwaHbD66brAr7 NB09mGi0Q7OuGmFti/6vHygJut6bVJiIHaBfAqEC3V9mxpcWM2eBMfHA6loE9180EgDC EFZ7OkWun2HWNGWAgT3plK1HnlODFRiQ0ODXPZz9mXwCjs9xmIvn8YJuzpggdwugZmKI UVc7/eCbeY33k5OcxYGG8OJK9J/R+5dOeR+ae6QVJTCM0ACKMMyOvrG5KRkS4TdsoYL7 9Dew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X7Z4/bFgWkOFpW7wvvc9aS5AA/oVV9567dToGZqtSKQ=; b=PxsS+K2XgbCTsk9FvKhja1fS8AcAiEWaV7dX+05jQyitpewa21GcIhQx6LymDkLhUe KFfyjCl0LPzEpl49KFK5iuDftbNFSU9bHmArZey6X/ARfoQx/aW6MKexS6jcnP0DA98o D6ngaGNi+Ew9eAvosm2pEuGtnQYh8xv8sRqToiLpuhXjvIMVH38Y1uflMt85meL86xyq KdkerKiG5RynnHzlfOuXgRvxcNOgtqN3m04FBZcfxd9F1/ktSBbHb1u8CQlJ32kjP5ho YfW62BEhSPF03eI8csoAW+W903U9XVPFEv0xNSMt0UzBPhHFM2cQJno3tOaWHNk9uYW2 6vkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYcezjNnceOSaXc0ectIqyK8h28jwQhSyQoVbCMNzx0nakxK8uA jD2E0W2Z6wU6ucHYvSdrHot5lyTrgQc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL5GpKLUOcVfc8Gm9NOxtw0eQ6/i557ge2N3F2K2B1/qau69SPVX0Il/TpVUyb/u1eIY0DrZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:923:: with SMTP id 32mr6601852otp.104.1587308469829; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com (mail-oi1-f175.google.com. [209.85.167.175]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p13sm1786644oom.34.2020.04.19.08.01.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id o7so4811993oif.2; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:6184:: with SMTP id v126mr7658142oib.168.1587308468276; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:00:37 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Cc: Jan Beich , Shane Ambler , "ngor@antonovs.family" , "raichoo@acmelabs.space" , "contact@evilham.com" , gljennjohn@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 494tLv0NqJz4QGC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=jkJeG+aS; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32b) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.08 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-1.78)[ip: (-8.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:43:29 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:01:12 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 2:08 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > I am working on Enlightenment 0.23.1 that has Wayland support, its > full featured WM with long tradition, works not stable, second new > life sparked recently, the patch has been updated (big thank you to > Shane Ambler), the new version should show up in the port tree shortly > :-) > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245596 > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245594 Any help to run Enlightenment on Wayland FreeBSD is welcome :-) Enlightenment depends / runs on EFL. Version 0.23.1 works now stable on Xorg FreeBSD (sorry for the typo above) it was freezing randomly with curent 0.22.4 version (known bug). Did not test on Wayland yet, but but it is transitioning from Xorg to Wayland: https://www.enlightenment.org/ -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Apr 19 20:08:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D340D2A89B7 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:08:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-ot1-x344.google.com (mail-ot1-x344.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::344]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49519H0Y1tz3QJY for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:08:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-ot1-x344.google.com with SMTP id k21so6257463otl.5 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2LBPh9AwIbkDFZWJOnKLN1rgg1sxpv944b0TYH1sJJw=; b=P+mnae7FzkDRtn5JiR1vcrla2WaDP8+/XTYh3S7E1oEydVdEXKhBW6Hi3azAeJcdnm XpTlW8beBug17IQwXM6+29BITQhOknFYOjvQaZh4D6jJAB1lK4UbaaEk0nZ71K11VX+g hXI3ti0MMHHf0OZv04+7nM6FV4o0pAYFs0iB7lRa3eVvh/gP9oU2Kps5m4tLmbmVHhCV 0/ewJW8XpOyfJT7KrijRzbVdXgTK3WyeUtdcfYQUWTA0roUwpvR0USP7gjfuVwDlPrqA jcUJltrsC5Z0Wqb4rMaoT9+v1rJKtcKxoAiWJSDUw/JB8x4E7fZ5fNipjPvvySt5nhqK w8PQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2LBPh9AwIbkDFZWJOnKLN1rgg1sxpv944b0TYH1sJJw=; b=D1e7NENApRDJd6yU2O3YiM1Xorrs9FvGQQ5kAfkHyPa3gFQTH1NTv0hObakFhrPdXz 9uWNtdtQFJpo7WnRaEqf81CNqzTm+IcJS9rraQ6AYd1p/+2G/WJoUbCmnoKFr5BUhQml gG0EidG+wAl5qYHatvRq8V5KjOQ17wes2KIzQ6y1/fq2bB3ODn72GXc2tj8p4VLCwwbP jekeEzg3xtdwp29BeRO22+m8eScCKR+6RBqN/ZQx+HDbeZkHTcz0VwK14kOz91DcrpeJ sxYZg2W+3l63YabsLnKBR5BQzlQpNkQujq0YOUiCLI0i4BmlFixWHgQDkeEBtzfiniUv ysKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub1V9krnybo8B0FCikF1EseAGqed6/3fbhA4NILxE3Om+C7N4UO 4ayzfDv0VR9chqdAyBCR71t24g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKkRzQIOV6b3DUXATWvG7Do3auRVJ3Xz0MSkCT50ApG8R8ZySKGfF/36VNGxsoXsx2nRRvT2A== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2da7:: with SMTP id g36mr6762718otb.57.1587326898047; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-f50.google.com (mail-ot1-f50.google.com. [209.85.210.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n2sm7862126oom.18.2020.04.19.13.08.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f50.google.com with SMTP id m18so6233413otq.9; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6046:: with SMTP id v6mr6597698otj.6.1587326896883; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:08:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200419191821.GA3478@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20200419191821.GA3478@lonesome.com> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:07:47 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Mark Linimon Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , "ngor@antonovs.family" , Shane Ambler , "contact@evilham.com" , Jan Beich Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49519H0Y1tz3QJY X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=P+mnae7F; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::344) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.38 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.08)[ip: (0.41), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:53:31 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:08:19 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 9:18 PM Mark Linimon wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 02:08:50PM +0200, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > PLEASE BRING BACK THE FREEBSD WIKI TO LIFE :-) > > This is simply rude. > mcl Hello Mark, you may be right, and I am sorry if you find my call to action rude - just take a different look - during only last two days several people showed up signalling active interest in Wayland on FreeBSD. WiKi last update is 2018. No word on Handbook. Some words on Forums. Looks like world is shifting from Xorg to Wayland. There are even people willing to participate in Wayland development so FreeBSD can benefit. Isn't that an opportunity? I always considered WIKI to be the best place for Work-In-Progress documentation. I would prefer not to scatter the information over the web ("the linux way"). Why don't we update WIKI and make it more open to the community? What better medium could you recommend? Best regards :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 00:34:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4071E2B041C for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:34:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49573s6RHbz4HTr for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id w6so3762120ilg.1 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:34:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0Fr7ELP81txyz6JqIceFETg6mShzi0U/DDtSIN05GcY=; b=ckJv3mizpinLof5+9jP62wtIqnK8MPnc3y4EiBsjYcjX52T6LS/GGKLbuEM26CSXer dsQ0SFCbWz541JYjv3jyzNxS/P/MEsNHYXerIpUXaRkcWDaUkEx3v1s4MG6vqts3/frI vHPI6HpZLuSIyp5VxFwfO4eeTvmP49783OpSyHKWnEVqURB/Qf1yF3d7gqT5zwVWcBJk WoLGUQHELt2x/CvPs9aEakZTNhykCU6hhPDhkqIo4xGcuy5PWiVryChlmvibmLi1jUe2 chk6HKQVIXut9cvO5uzeER6v2B3H0EgQRelRadpKVOxlvjcH3kJEPmbugbCfiIiAU2oA VTbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0Fr7ELP81txyz6JqIceFETg6mShzi0U/DDtSIN05GcY=; b=CGbnx3Eoc09nqpicIXMVCWL4jHe8nkyKa2ojIfroXjTBP0acHPYxNm6FZb/83nFZbP FCmp2mxgzefP/QUYoN/dEWNjVTSyURmmnqQIEJxeeCoSFh//NupNJtASDSSAHVapiWmB TuiGgrjFsOlVuLPCAbx2yfHd+vitv189vwa/6z4qZcKOEmtrX4HQOmEQo0OIsSwguKAI /B880ntklp8x3O9Q8AXV0Z+peKvYSLVaz9IO443Qvl1vmwk1ykFYplbrLwFnenuDIBnB WrkptSIEYOXKWszs8YOG5AA/uH4IlFsndTVSGw7OX7GQwfg7h030wCD0OkimmOjJOsxk uXPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuarqkfUCAlFgXjF8d0Xyh/dh39xlQ1QHhUJj8AynMXWsPgH4vC3 XsVWYlki6Qxh6Xr5wA2A3HEDXSEOs0hT6cLhzBS+4JrRPx0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJgO97NUtfdFerimfYtamc4/mDXDuSkPlZiNQB9D6zUuCCmdyd9aTOe61t2XeMH962AVGTUONhV5jHq2GfovBM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:7ed2:: with SMTP id q79mr14175107ill.81.1587342840658; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:34:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> <20200417213025.16ba5877.freebsd@edvax.de> <1659102270.119843446.1587168373188.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> <20200418092801.20d10f5b@archlinux> <20200419234351.GA88082@neutralgood.org> In-Reply-To: <20200419234351.GA88082@neutralgood.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:33:49 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: "Kevin P. Neal" Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49573s6RHbz4HTr X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ckJv3miz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::133 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.57), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:34:04 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 7:44 PM Kevin P. Neal wrote: > On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 09:31:30AM -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the legality > of > > GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed project to > give > > up all claims over how their work is used would likely unconstitutional. > > US courts generally prefer to make narrower decisions, and if a case can > be settled without answering constitutional questions then that's probably > what the court would do. I seriously doubt a court would say anything at > all about the constitutionality of the GPL. > Of course they would likely use normal copyright law but the constitution is why IP law is federal but contract law is state. > > FSF knows this and that is why they highly recommends you to assign all > > intellectual property rights to FSF and/or the original author. > > https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#AssignCopyright > > I'm not going to waste time on that page. I'll just throw this in: > > One can only fight in court if one has "standing". The FSF has no standing > to fight in court over violations of the license on code that, for example, > I wrote. To establish standing the FSF needs something like holding the > rights themselves. There standing is obvious if the agreement is found to be null and void in one case then it is likely weaken any claims any other user of the license makes (including FSF) thus if it was a class action suit then it is more then certain they would be included in the injured class. Also since the license it self is copyrighted by FSF any violations of it would be copyright infringement on the license it self (since the license is required to be included with any code you right). So showing standing is trivial. If you had read the page that you purposely skipped you would see they make roughly the same argument and even though a federal judge interpreting state law declared in a non-UCC state that GPL was a contract they also said that FSF had defacto standing in all cases involving GPL. https://perens.com/2017/05/28/understanding-the-gpl-is-a-contract-court-case/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 01:17:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552BD2B178A for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:17:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gal.iecc.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49582G6yS1z4LjN for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:17:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johnl@iecc.com) Received: (qmail 69795 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2020 01:17:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=110a1.5e9cf830.k2004; bh=CTuu4/FWDQ5e0VfzyPzirzqtHZnrdxITAGKsjTfCV8c=; b=kUeVqFmAIShmIciD8UWN1LW7w+BSuKsNcesE/PiDfAQypHdlI0ofyezUkTpPdAmfWc+wdyJIE0esO5hSUEcYPa41Sxv5MKh/l3dFVtQqdW32GV3/KNXA2mi/HXMzlGYf38bbgVJ9y5jcIX0FOf10Gs3r3d1keS1sOob7BXxOBG62TdLrL4O2C/DouoP5YzZu3XdWAFwE5VBz3CiI9mRzEtajODYePRpP9SCxJouI15xcjBgaMHU1rn5pVt95Wpwf Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 20 Apr 2020 01:17:35 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6448818053ED; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 21:17:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: 19 Apr 2020 21:17:34 -0400 Message-Id: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: aryeh.friedman@gmail.com Subject: Re: GPL, not freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49582G6yS1z4LjN X-Spamd-Bar: -------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=iecc.com header.s=110a1.5e9cf830.k2004 header.b=kUeVqFmA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=iecc.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johnl@iecc.com designates 2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johnl@iecc.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-8.14 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[iecc.com:s=110a1.5e9cf830.k2004]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[iecc.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.4.2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:1f07:1126::/64]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[iecc.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[iecc.com,none]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.90), ipnet: 2001:470::/32(-4.65), asn: 6939(-3.60), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:17:44 -0000 In article you write: >Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the legality of >GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed project to give >up all claims over how their work is used would likely unconstitutional. I'd suggest not playing junior lawyer. The GPL is a contract and there have been successful cases to enforce it. Nobody has any inherent right to use GPL'ed software (or any other software not released into the public domain) so if you don't like the terms, don't use it. I am not crazy about the GPL and one of the things I like about FreeBSD is that most of it has much more reasonable licenses. R's, John From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 01:35:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A292B20E3 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:35:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com (mail-io1-xd44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4958QT4QtVz4N5j for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:35:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id f19so9212369iog.5 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:35:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=W6Zf9KXPLqLiiywrdXAlKpOIRmaVrA64tVdku6QKzV0=; b=Ou6VXVu68ZzaraPiClGwBGjZ046VyM0OdKazTv3qXiUxy9AAr660mlIseZRNOYULU/ oVFNk+hSzN6Shhyxn4buEk2laQP93uiW3nZNgt4ygpvC6BHDVILuVyRh7Lb9SujRai6W oxCINW0dTD4b7N+hGVmZuYggg0LbKkjD4Vi9TH2CuwjTgAR7k0zlX/CQJgz36HsMnnYc 5SQaMYKeLvN8kySvmdVZE34fWt5aaWctnMPPklRLV0Cr98jPQp/ITA/Sm4ClR8I4s+6r wHkEsYtno/zamEafRuqo+gTFlgznTmtPRg6b6Ec+9/mJkXamDzEJtBLBtvWOO0hoqpnn wtvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=W6Zf9KXPLqLiiywrdXAlKpOIRmaVrA64tVdku6QKzV0=; b=d2Jt/5VQrByU+EOWRnDjJIyUCii6XqTCBABBDIhN2SKTia/6IrQjZs0j9SgoceNbwH 2Nen9SflIwC+j2e+LUJPv83bvxepF20YvHe6gJ8eE28uZXR6pz0fJuXGss/N7S3f+yGt 64M6XgQvvLefHH954WOmIxxBs+5mQ0vcIsvYDoAoQyrbinTsoqmG8QQ8QSmYIF6dzIi3 a236UDjJH61SC6ASEpGlKzp2QPYZY/aEx6K1JBHRuek8kAeF2GYeZoWjVqb7atI1zk7K H8JSOroM++5YF6I5UIC3DDKkHoZFdy8c2IM6ZdRX1oDwR9Su+NKOS6MKO8bCZDZjluHM t5EQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubP6JmrbfkVugBcBKud7hnWULFoLChCm/ryAI/h5bGlEm2wCg9g JMovESm6DAeKPclJx6cTJWUmKbldbZgS3/peFC3qKn7VFLQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKwwFFy5AV6qaq3Jf40aeHgYv7ldUrKF8OE1E3k2yja9ItFDgQqN4luUHd1sLz8vxE+3KQ5B8jbfVftqhNEWR4= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:fc0d:: with SMTP id r13mr13220016ioh.89.1587346512449; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:35:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> In-Reply-To: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 21:35:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: GPL, not freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: John Levine Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4958QT4QtVz4N5j X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Ou6VXVu6; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (0.23), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:35:15 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 9:17 PM John Levine wrote: > In article yx-xSo0gdsVgAoA7fUn8oRq3173covquHNw61kBJQ@mail.gmail.com> you write: > >Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the legality > of > >GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed project to give > >up all claims over how their work is used would likely unconstitutional. > > I'd suggest not playing junior lawyer. The GPL is a contract and > there have been successful cases to enforce it. Nobody has any > inherent right to use GPL'ed software (or any other software not > released into the public domain) so if you don't like the terms, don't > use it. > There is major disagreement if it is a contract or an license (the two are not the same) see the wikipedia article on legal status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Legal_status ... the only thing we know for sure is a non-UCC state (which may or may not set a precident in a UCC state) says it is a contract but other courts have held it is not a contract per se (legally binding license but not a contract). The key difference is what court (state or federal) has say over it and if a contract is possible without consideration on both sides (many implied contracts are not contracts for example a parking facility that is has no implied contract with the owner of a car for theft or damage). > > I am not crazy about the GPL and one of the things I like about > FreeBSD is that most of it has much more reasonable licenses. > If you read the full context of my comments you would see I more then "not crazy about GPL" my self.... thus all my comments are not designed to defend GPL just to point out that many common interpretations of what it allows and not allows are incorrect. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 01:39:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5E52B22EF for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:39:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-oo1-xc34.google.com (mail-oo1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4958Vx3r22z4NNC for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:39:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-oo1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id t12so1391763oot.2 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:39:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V2oNRt2ZpE7vmYBReLMs31q7VdQL5UdLcbG624ByaWs=; b=XIJ6/tOdlAus41rVOIPqy7z3y23CjUMFX8yeAKDAhKDwZ8ytP6AHNbtqydwMiGkZQB w30Ut4OYRYQm6w43C+3xa4KdP7UpZZgN+dS/pE2rZ4uMYLoprZjK9sNEBSaHX3U7XZnX HszDNPUpxylMIV393+dvIOmzb3gIRPgvyGpo8B6XMkQr9yC8jpVZ8chqlZjWjP0F0H7Y u5rWC5WP61CKXv8pyX8JcJ2y3Mgcjw39NAzvZ4Lzfw05VkpsLg6lY9mb24AFZgzcqu3d d6ixZJKJ7CKOVSVbed9QkOMKDW8QPmnO1/cQUqzIhLtHlhJ3enKeTsu4PczrQZCRzhnF gXtA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=V2oNRt2ZpE7vmYBReLMs31q7VdQL5UdLcbG624ByaWs=; b=XGm6pt6gX5Cg8OHoMIF2hWiNnsza29XmP+wBTuS7whWYaVg/kXbjWp7iQ01jdlNLUP m3T4DKuVVitXWj3xaXmEDh8geSZHnXodJF2mdxUMpw/H697PDM5GAT4hjtyNTmBY1Hd/ C3Q+eNDr3N/FRa5wWlyZRpLLuI4rZqZ8t4Q105lKg/jjm7/vyfl0XjShnDEl75mxLwWC 8jP4txpGwLjOSt/OOAtTR2eBtHADm8k+o+jO+1Iu5F+wuML4tOsPKdeFUG2OeEHEnfiJ k7VtAlyxBYzISQmHYCp1uHcozUpNuLaOJ3AKTtkqX6aAWE7oCpfuvDN/Uje1k7irz01O pQrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubvlFGeaxEakEnyziCg7JEUvsKjdbFRaSJeDHVxzky5dNaFoDz8 oCLddz8fPb0g/ARDUb1C9EaDb4HsLJA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ45gaFm6TtA1zf9S3479FHoJxs4FgEv4p667lQyhyKacpuTjTacEkCx+U5ILRMI261F4Kf9A== X-Received: by 2002:a4a:ba0b:: with SMTP id b11mr9378020oop.44.1587346744148; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-f43.google.com (mail-ot1-f43.google.com. [209.85.210.43]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q15sm10001687otk.78.2020.04.19.18.39.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f43.google.com with SMTP id m18so6701402otq.9; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:39:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6847:: with SMTP id c7mr5785123oto.159.1587346743086; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:39:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:38:33 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4958Vx3r22z4NNC X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=XIJ6/tOd; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-1.67)[ip: (-7.54), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:39:06 -0000 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:34 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > I would like to use Enlightenment (0.23.1) + Wayland. I did manage to run Wayland + Hikari so Wayland works on FreeBSD :-) Ports version is 1.18 and lags behind only one release (1.20 is 1.19 with some readme added). I would prefer to stick to Enlightenment and its running on Wayland since version 0.20. New version of Enlightenment (0.22.4 -> 0.23.1) based on EFL (1.20.7 -> 1.23.3) is already working on my machine and will show up in ports shortly: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245596 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245594 Enlightenment has and needs new Wayland support that is based on ecore_wl2 from EFL. Someone hardcoded Linux DMA code into src/lib/ecore_wl2/ecore_wl2_buffer.c and that part of EFL does not build anymore on FreeBSD (not mandatory to run on Xorg). The good news is that EFL builds with both old Wayland support (wl-deprecated switch) and new one required for Enlightenment (wl switch) when all linuxisms are commented out from ecore_wl2_buffer.c. This means if we find a FreeBSD specific replacement for those DMA transfers all should work fine..? https://github.com/Enlightenment/efl/blob/master/src/lib/ecore_wl2/ecore_wl2_buffer.c The question is whether we should use some sort of DRM / GPU related DMA code or generic BUS DMA code? I have no experience over here.. the memory is a memory but if that affects video performance I guess video framebuffer should be used directly on a video card? :-) Best regards :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 02:03:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A07D82B2FBD for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:03:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49593Q58LBz4Q8N for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:03:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.139.19]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C0F54E65A for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:55:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: GPL, not freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <75f68749-10d9-9bf2-f046-a56417576d23@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 20:55:05 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49593Q58LBz4Q8N X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[19.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[19.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.996,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.10)[ip: (0.30), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.15), asn: 160(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:03:47 -0000 On 4/19/20 8:17 PM, John Levine wrote: > In article you write: >> Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the legality of >> GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed project to give >> up all claims over how their work is used would likely unconstitutional. > > I'd suggest not playing junior lawyer. The GPL is a contract and > there have been successful cases to enforce it. Nobody has any > inherent right to use GPL'ed software (or any other software not > released into the public domain) so if you don't like the terms, don't > use it. > > I am not crazy about the GPL and one of the things I like about > FreeBSD is that most of it has much more reasonable licenses. John, and others. Stop arguing with troll, it never is productive. Valeri > > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 02:10:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5602B3276 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:10:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x144.google.com (mail-il1-x144.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::144]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4959Bl6YGqz4QSn for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x144.google.com with SMTP id u5so8270553ilb.5 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:10:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=P7xVIsszCnONEk5p8BOT+0MZt2nE3mtfg1wlno/3Sf8=; b=b3XRSmJIkZlDHolGwUspph/yGoNcX7+3o+RbBIx5ZoVgv2bApcDf55efcTXeXmxdYB h6KwDS68TSoOJa2KYLtCCYS+CA6zH0oqxYJSsqxQeJsyELrySpYcYi9JCr8xxuy2SGO/ 7+eY/73HPlvLa6Iabxn/uq27iEOdstVJkVeK+cwI4xUUdWJJoODZZdDLVbJO9Nd+wu5T qPybGOZh6nCd93d3xpNY/tzQb3CH3fovX4r/n8+zbxhXawhxrPEQwE3H1FDwYwCIKllm 1l9YfgOIhJDUdYNepWj2BnOki3ZvgKop+/YJWKRjNwMA2UDpiXo8ANMZlx3i5mQKdNsu Saag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=P7xVIsszCnONEk5p8BOT+0MZt2nE3mtfg1wlno/3Sf8=; b=Dp5jygx2+0CMqvHc+mtr0XCK//PpfkGGGDAY3p9V9vFvivTCwSnyBSmouQy/pca262 ynUm8pR/ttxfCkY0TGtQQBVe3mHPiFR6KCuQAHHiz6Z6Csd8C8KKUMQcIA8Y+OUlEhhV C/Xc1zm+c9g83gfXywNeWJIDwGn2Ajj+61E0nT3wFb1tJQkM9x1oMIkzerstnQtZoJET 24sBxSEnogMP3w52AjttuzZR7EtlS8iliMlvHHoD23Jx+pBNLnlAWb4hmTR8HIreh0EL fZrlVJ+xw8Ril4bGE5NnS0beQF5rmedUx2YNtLSp+g7zlCLDoC+NnZ9zs/N0e/1hIRXo OhNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYJASocwfHMk8lgkRjJxTFEmf0DRCeLKeAsdZNPGbFei5qzKqcX 3QFl0TuDQ/bfkwk1RnOrKMAPAW/Asr39NlDWkRI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK97Sj7PlXXYqbUwXFHdW7pqIERlpGLm15sTjhCLch6r3N6MMxlk6bA5eFVZxrm0+TghuReqdW+jXd2W9A5eQw= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d186:: with SMTP id z6mr11637487ilz.119.1587348606938; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:10:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200420011735.6448818053ED@ary.qy> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:09:53 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: GPL, not freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: "John R. Levine" , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4959Bl6YGqz4QSn X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=b3XRSmJI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::144 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (0.15), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:10:08 -0000 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 9:59 PM John R. Levine wrote: > >> In article >> yx-xSo0gdsVgAoA7fUn8oRq3173covquHNw61kBJQ@mail.gmail.com> you write: > >>> Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the > legality > >> of > >>> GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed project to > give > >>> up all claims over how their work is used would likely > unconstitutional. > >> > >> I'd suggest not playing junior lawyer. The GPL is a contract and > >> there have been successful cases to enforce it. Nobody has any > >> inherent right to use GPL'ed software (or any other software not > >> released into the public domain) so if you don't like the terms, don't > >> use it. > > There is major disagreement if it is a contract or an license (the two > are > > not the same) see the wikipedia article on legal status > > Whichever it might turn out to be, it's still inane to claim there's any > sort of constitutional issue, and it's still a bad idea to play junior > lawyer. > Not true according to the US Copyright office: https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html > > over it and if a contract is possible without consideration on both sides > > You might want to read some of the clickwrap case law. > All of which says you *MUST* actively agree to the license before opening the contents. GPL makes no such requirement (it is a passive acceptance) and thus likely not quiet the same. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 05:49:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E1F2B7566 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:49:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495G4F670Zz3C6S for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:49:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id b12so9599429ion.8 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:49:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=a3AF/cJkBxLi4ocDuS2fd19gkml943+XsfjrCFKFHhQ=; b=exYrSBjhvnmXqde2dG2Qa4T/899wXRQozZvUCuDc8EwbHj32l/cd8bnESPzqB4knJZ ZAE3h+JFsgEayoBY0/nt0j2do+eg7+0JYyimMy9Q04Knjpo+WI6R39AL91MY3IzwNmrW O0MWfEF+mazQNsJmSQpZZAIYlC+5ILkuSl9B02Irsbf1Mg8Aw2c2q2/EibHGaepsRTKD 0t01yu2Ob/Y5RQffG2eSZoVCWkTPiY3ixbHaijHR2BE64fkwd3VqFNSeWD8rth8PH2Ql UuM5ae/vNqGqTTn97y+BQmorxIk8vQGzWr6fu6oXuRZa8vw6Sur6xGHtjYx9BdelSU57 iBOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=a3AF/cJkBxLi4ocDuS2fd19gkml943+XsfjrCFKFHhQ=; b=G3L+0nwCcunIjHTDq7NHAg2Qrw+kk/cKBLAugEUfR1BCh92jRI7w6RzStwrzAuQrjH ABFTPcNWar/t+5cHrTUXbqTkyqBJz/RqGyovDbIf/PwLqko3+FDRa7NfUimO+Jc2Om69 CsG/5CH5L3GsMat2aqwxsovggJ87CtyO0dYwaXF2TiX5li4H4wkedwPx161hgwVYUdyn p2ppGcV585rTt1b86zKFkbLrsH4EbvpO3g1DNF5Dxwddz1yLdUnt/lKPO01gMZjSwHJH 65eXz+ItUE1OmnxlLVrCJM5hr8uHEjk+hrcrGLvAsSatrO10MLn0tsFwwM4C4Yi+4eKc aQvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYs1dh1IpNdrUk2Egq0gqKkDBSGKrzBt9Rgup4St+uyCJC4gXom KSgwRiIlqn0m82y9iiQ0eWG0foZzkUOHt2Mqt4Vq/Si5C00= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJF3jGbWdURb+ZPhqT6NIzJu1q31OKyoazeoilBU0/i+XPJqep75+JKCaRFKMfF5ljTG2v8sha4sLMMauRGUUo= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:fc0d:: with SMTP id r13mr13792847ioh.89.1587361788266; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 22:49:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> <20200417213025.16ba5877.freebsd@edvax.de> <1659102270.119843446.1587168373188.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca> <20200418092801.20d10f5b@archlinux> <20200419234351.GA88082@neutralgood.org> <20200420040640.GA23751@neutralgood.org> In-Reply-To: <20200420040640.GA23751@neutralgood.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:49:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture To: "Kevin P. Neal" Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495G4F670Zz3C6S X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=exYrSBjh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[15]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-5.31), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:49:50 -0000 Top posting because one comment covers the entire range of issue you raised in a one size fits all manner. According to a interview with FSF's lead council (https://lwn.net/Articles/61292/) he makes the following claims: 1. Because GPL is it self GPL'ed (yes recursive licensing) it gives FSF standing in any and all cases involving GPL regardless of copyright holder. The details have to deal with the fact that GPL is not just a copyrighted document but an (recursively) enforceable license 2. It is a license *NOT* a contract (specifically because the user gives no consideration and signs nothing) 3. Due to it being a copyright infringement (and perhaps patent issues but since GPL does not forbid the use of trademarks no other IP is involved) the jurisdiction is federal and federal only The one district court discussed below doesn't agree but no other court has weighed in one way or the other. On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:06 AM Kevin P. Neal wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 08:33:49PM -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 7:44 PM Kevin P. Neal <[1]kpn@neutralgood.or= g > > > > wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 09:31:30AM -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > Thus I suspect if push came to shove in a legal fight about the > > legality of > > > GPL forcing third parties that just happen to use a GPL'ed proje= ct > > to give > > > up all claims over how their work is used would likely > > unconstitutional. > > US courts generally prefer to make narrower decisions, and if a ca= se > > can > > be settled without answering constitutional questions then that's > > probably > > what the court would do. I seriously doubt a court would say > > anything at > > all about the constitutionality of the GPL. > > > > Of course they would likely use normal copyright law but the > > constitution is why IP law is federal but contract law is state. > > Uh, banana? > > I don't dispute that copyrights and patents are generally federal because > of the part of the US Constitution that you quoted. Of course, if Congres= s > has not yet stated that copyright covers a work then copyright law for > that work falls to the states. Congress is free to extend the scope of > federal copyright, which it did multiple times in the 20th century. > > Other forms of "IP" are _not_ covered by that clause but fall under other > clauses like the interstate commerce clause. Trademark, for example. Plus= , > forms of "IP" that haven't been addressed by Congress but have been > addressed > by states are covered by state law. Likeness rights, for example. Thus a > blanket statement like "IP law is federal" is incorrect. > > My statement about courts preferring more narrow rulings stands. > > > > FSF knows this and that is why they highly recommends you to > > assign all > > > intellectual property rights to FSF and/or the original author. > > > [2]https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#AssignCopyright > > I'm not going to waste time on that page. I'll just throw this in: > > One can only fight in court if one has "standing". The FSF has no > > standing > > to fight in court over violations of the license on code that, for > > example, > > I wrote. To establish standing the FSF needs something like holdin= g > > the > > rights themselves. > > > > There standing is obvious if the agreement is found to be null and > void > > in one case then it is likely weaken any claims any other user of th= e > > license makes (including FSF) thus if it was a class action suit the= n > > it is more then certain they would be included in the injured class.= =C3=82 > > Also since the license it self is copyrighted by FSF any violations = of > > it would be copyright infringement on the license it self (since the > > license is required to be included with any code you right). =C3=82 = So > > showing standing is trivial. > > A showing of standing on the text of the license is trivial because the > FSF holds the copyright on the text of the license. That doesn't give > standing for any copyrighted parts that are not owned by the FSF. Standin= g > on the license's text does not grant standing on anything that is shipped > with the license. Well, except perhaps in that one federal district. Mayb= e. > > > If you had read the page that you purposely skipped you would see th= ey > > make roughly the same argument and even though a federal judge > > I went back and looked at those pages. The FSF says it makes it "easier" > to enforce the GPL if rights are assigned to the FSF. This statement > sidesteps explaining what "easier" is. Standing is part of the issue that > the FSF is trying to address. > > And some of the FSF's pages are written by an actual skilled lawyer and > thus are more clear than what a non-lawyer can write. We're not lawyers > here. > > > interpreting state law declared in a non-UCC state that GPL was a > > contract they also said that FSF had defacto standing in all cases > > involving GPL.=C3=82 =C3=82 > > [3] > https://perens.com/2017/05/28/understanding-the-gpl-is-a-contract-co > > urt-case/ > > That case is only perhaps binding in that district. In the rest of the > country the case at most rises to the level of persuasive precedent. If > that, since the case was settled before a final ruling was made. So don't > assume that *nationwide* the FSF has "defacto standing" on copyrighted > works > when they have no rights to the work outside of the text of the bundled > license. > > -- > Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ > > "What is mathematics? The age-old answer is, of course, that mathematics > is what mathematicians do." - Donald Knuth > --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 06:49:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB82C2B893B; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 06:49:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495HPc6Cdgz3GvV; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 06:49:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id x23so6975003lfq.1; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:49:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sun, 19 Apr 2020 23:49:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clay Daniels Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:49:42 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Tomasz CEDRO Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495HPc6Cdgz3GvV X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=mYnE5tk1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of claydanielsjr@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=claydanielsjr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.98), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.34), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[9]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 06:49:57 -0000 > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:35 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > Hello world :-) > > Time to move from X11 to Wayland :-) > > Not everyone is so convinced that Wayland will replace Xorg: https://www.slant.co/versus/8634/8635/~wayland_vs_x https://www.secjuice.com/wayland-vs-xorg/ https://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/What-s-Taking-Wayland-So-Long From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 08:16:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A866E2BAA13 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:16:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from smh-06.1blu.de (smh-06.1blu.de [178.254.0.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495KKW50JWz3P3Y for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:16:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [172.16.29.5] (helo=sh4-5.1blu.de) by smh-06.1blu.de with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQRbP-0006JM-Ny for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:16:28 +0200 Received: from ftp51246-2575596 by sh4-5.1blu.de with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQRbP-0001Y9-MR for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:16:27 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:16:27 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: find(1) removes as it should a directory, but after this it complains about Message-ID: <20200420081627.GA30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> Reply-To: Matthias Apitz Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Please send only plain text. User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495KKW50JWz3P3Y X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of guru@unixarea.de has no SPF policy when checking 178.254.0.206) smtp.mailfrom=guru@unixarea.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[guru@unixarea.de]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(0.36)[ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(0.92), asn: 42730(0.88), country: DE(-0.02)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.64)[0.642,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.93)[0.925,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[206.0.254.178.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:16:32 -0000 Hello, I've stumbled over something with find(1) which I would call a bug: $ mkdir foo $ find foo -type d -execdir rm -rv {} \; foo find: foo: No such file or directory $ ls -ld foo ls: foo: No such file or directory I truss'ed the find(1) and it starts as it should a child process like 'rm -rv foo', but when this ends correctly, find tries to open again the dir foo: $ truss -f -o find.tr find foo -type d -execdir rm -rv {} \; foo find: foo: No such file or directory $ grep foo find.tr 2107: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"foo",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=4099842,size=512,blksize=32768 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) = 0 (0x0) 2108: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"foo",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=4099842,size=512,blksize=32768 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) = 0 (0x0) 2108: access("foo",W_OK) = 0 (0x0) 2108: open("foo",O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC,03) = 4 (0x4) 2108: rmdir("foo") = 0 (0x0) 2108: write(1,"foo\n",4) = 4 (0x4) 2107: open("foo",O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC,03) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' 2107: write(2,"foo: No such file or directory",30) = 30 (0x1e) Is this by intention? matthias -- Matthias Apitz, ✉ guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045 Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub May, 9: Спаси́бо освободители! Thank you very much, Russian liberators! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 08:24:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570AD2BAD3B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:24:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ngor@antonovs.family) Received: from mail.antonovs.family (mail.antonovs.family [100.25.240.195]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.antonovs.family", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495KWC36DXz3Pfj for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:24:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ngor@antonovs.family) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=antonovs.family; s=20200215; t=1587371087; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=KB7N8BjBbOWqOw5HUS+8b5Axj4/hLNzbUn1Vp8oYMx0=; b=Y6CX3h0mvlOxT0FGNH0mcfL1nGDfJBqjpenaXm/8N7hJ1ksXaXertemxAdRRoPeqDSCTlI BGV9O3LQU8t4//Swhkwpg69CeNko6F5t2nvx+5TXC+9qLb6oeAzORi2QYYZgwJSJQax3z3 6knnpOKJs+zwhUprRJ8zAz4eQVcZFO8= Received: by mail.antonovs.family (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id faabe412 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:24:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Ihor Antonov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: ihor@antonovs.family Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:24:43 -0700 Message-ID: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495KWC36DXz3Pfj X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=antonovs.family header.s=20200215 header.b=Y6CX3h0m; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=antonovs.family; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ngor@antonovs.family designates 100.25.240.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ngor@antonovs.family X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[antonovs.family:s=20200215]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[ihor@antonovs.family]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLYTO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[antonovs.family:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[antonovs.family,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.29)[ip: (-8.99), ipnet: 100.24.0.0/13(-4.37), asn: 14618(-3.02), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; CTE_CASE(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:100.24.0.0/13, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:24:56 -0000 On Sunday, 19 April 2020 23:49:42 PDT Clay Daniels wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:35 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > Hello world :-) > > > > Time to move from X11 to Wayland :-) > > > Not everyone is so convinced that Wayland will replace Xorg: > https://www.slant.co/versus/8634/8635/~wayland_vs_x > > https://www.secjuice.com/wayland-vs-xorg/ > > https://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/What-s-Taking-Wayland-So-Long > _______________________________________________ That is exactly what I wanted to say, but kept my mouth shut, but since you started :) I apologize upfront for this, but after reading FreeBSD mailing lists for a while I just can't read this any more like this is something normal. Here it comes: Yes X is old and insecure. There are literally 2 developers still supporting it and both work for Red Hat. They have already announced that they are going to stop supporting it soon. OpenBSD folks at least attempted to make X better, but in the end even they have admitted that X11 is "a giant keylogger". BUT FreeBSD folks are conservative bunch, some especially don't like changes that come from "linsucks". Others say that FreeBSD is a server OS. Same "server OS advocates" comfortably sit behind their MacBooks. There are ones that make a living with it so any unnecessary change at the very least is ignored or at most is actively being not welcomed. Many actively complain at their own desktop team when it tries to keep Intel GPU drivers working (which requires following Linux DRM APIs), but nobody is trying to write "proper BSD Intel drivers". Don't get me wrong, there are people (like Warner Losh) in FreeBSD who are trying to keep the OS in the present, but even they have hard time convincing people that finishing the 25-year swing on removing malloc.h is the right thing to do. Many were not happy with removing bktr(4) Brooktree Video Capture card drivers (you can't find this hardware today even on a garage sale) There are many more examples, these are just the fresh ones. Read arch mailing list, I am not making this up). A few progressive developers are outnumbered by fanatics of retro-computing. "Don't fix what is already broken" they say, "nobody uses it anyway" :P I am afraid that on FreeBSD Wayland will remain a third-class citizen. Look at sway for example: it needs Linux Kernel event API (evdev, luckily on by default in 12), epoll-shim and eudev-shim, and then some magic with barely documented kern.evdev.rcpt_mask=12 in sysctl.conf to make it work. Why? Because FreeBSD folks are generally not interested in contributing proper kqueue and devd support to "linusucks" projects. As well as maintaining X11. Linux developers are not going to write that either. The amount of linuxisms and shims is only going to grow, the desktop team is fighting an uphill battle here, there is no proper infrastructure for them to give users good Wayland support. All they can offer is shims, hacks and workarounds. And so Wayland will slowly but surely replace X in Linux world. But even in 10 years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11, will keep stating that they had jails first, ZFS is cool, GPL is evil and Netflix uses FreeBSD on their servers. FreeBSD is not a general purpose OS. It is a server OS, It is retro OS. It is OS that fills the niche where closing sources is needed for commercial success. An OS you want to put somewhere and never ever touch it again. It is not a desktop OS, quoting someone from this very mailing list: "It is power to serve, not power to desktop!" > > Not everyone is so convinced that Wayland will replace Xorg. On FreeBSD it simply never will. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 08:26:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A108D2BAE53 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:26:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495KY43PfRz3Pnv for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:26:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id l25so2726632vso.6 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:26:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:26:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200420081627.GA30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> In-Reply-To: <20200420081627.GA30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=C3=ADa?= Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:26:20 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: find(1) removes as it should a directory, but after this it complains about To: Matthias Apitz , User Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495KY43PfRz3Pnv X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=kJb4RA9Y; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fernandoapesteguia@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=fernandoapesteguia@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[13]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.39), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 08:26:33 -0000 El lun., 20 abr. 2020 10:16, Matthias Apitz escribi=C3= =B3: > Hello, > > I've stumbled over something with find(1) which I would call a bug: > > $ mkdir foo > $ find foo -type d -execdir rm -rv {} \; > foo > find: foo: No such file or directory > $ ls -ld foo > ls: foo: No such file or directory > > I truss'ed the find(1) and it starts as it should a child process like > 'rm -rv foo', but when this ends correctly, find tries to open again the > dir foo: > > $ truss -f -o find.tr find foo -type d -execdir rm -rv {} \; > foo > find: foo: No such file or directory > $ grep foo find.tr > 2107: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"foo",{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x > ,inode=3D4099842,size=3D512,blksize=3D32768 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) =3D 0 = (0x0) > 2108: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"foo",{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x > ,inode=3D4099842,size=3D512,blksize=3D32768 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) =3D 0 = (0x0) > 2108: access("foo",W_OK) =3D 0 (0x0) > 2108: open("foo",O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC,03) =3D 4 (0x= 4) > 2108: rmdir("foo") =3D 0 (0x0) > 2108: write(1,"foo\n",4) =3D 4 (0x4) > 2107: open("foo",O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_DIRECTORY|O_CLOEXEC,03) ERR#2 'No > such file or directory' > 2107: write(2,"foo: No such file or directory",30) =3D 30 (0x1e) > > Is this by intention? > Not sure it is, but GNU find (as of findutils 4.5.12) has the same behavior= . As workaround, would -delete work fo you? find foo -type d -delete Cheers. > matthias > > > -- > Matthias Apitz, =E2=9C=89 guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ > +49-176-38902045 > Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub > May, 9: =D0=A1=D0=BF=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=B8=CC=81=D0=B1=D0=BE =D0=BE=D1=81=D0= =B2=D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B8! Thank you very m= uch, Russian liberators! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 09:06:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C752BBF81 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:06:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from smh-06.1blu.de (smh-06.1blu.de [178.254.0.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495LQx4llkz3yGf for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:06:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [172.16.29.5] (helo=sh4-5.1blu.de) by smh-06.1blu.de with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jQSNa-0007BS-Qn for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:06:15 +0200 Received: from ftp51246-2575596 by sh4-5.1blu.de with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQSNa-0007qC-OS for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:06:14 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:06:14 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: find(1) removes as it should a directory, but after this it complains about Message-ID: <20200420090614.GB30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> Reply-To: Matthias Apitz Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420081627.GA30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT r314251 (amd64) X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495LQx4llkz3yGf X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of guru@unixarea.de has no SPF policy when checking 178.254.0.206) smtp.mailfrom=guru@unixarea.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[guru@unixarea.de]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(0.36)[ipnet: 178.254.0.0/19(0.92), asn: 42730(0.88), country: DE(-0.02)]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.810,0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.92)[0.924,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[206.0.254.178.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:06:18 -0000 El día Montag, April 20, 2020 a las 10:26:20 +0200, Fernando Apesteguía escribió: > Not sure it is, but GNU find (as of findutils 4.5.12) has the same behavior. > > As workaround, would -delete work fo you? > > find foo -type d -delete This does not purge non empty directories. matthias -- Matthias Apitz, ✉ guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045 Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub May, 9: Спаси́бо освободители! Thank you very much, Russian liberators! 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Mon, 20 Apr 2020 05:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: find(1) removes as it should a directory, but after this it complains about To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420081627.GA30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> <20200420090614.GB30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> From: Yuri Pankov Message-ID: <8d3cc614-6289-c55d-96ae-81b31941aa87@fastmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:09:26 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200420090614.GB30229@sh4-5.1blu.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495LVf0MWDz3yXV X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.com header.s=fm2 header.b=XwsK5S9Q; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=PZOGC7Ct; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ypankov@fastmail.com designates 64.147.123.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ypankov@fastmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.10 / 15.00]; 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RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:09:31 -0000 Matthias Apitz wrote: > El día Montag, April 20, 2020 a las 10:26:20 +0200, Fernando Apesteguía escribió: > >> Not sure it is, but GNU find (as of findutils 4.5.12) has the same behavior. >> >> As workaround, would -delete work fo you? >> >> find foo -type d -delete > > This does not purge non empty directories. Try specifying -d (depth-first): $ mkdir -p a/b/c/d $ find -d a -type d -execdir rm -rv {} \; d c b a $ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 09:14:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92E12BC765; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:14:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [176.58.89.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495LcL5ph3z40J2; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:14:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from cid.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495LcC23Wcz3lbm; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:14:19 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=daemonic.se; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-language:content-type :content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date:date :message-id:from:from:references:subject:subject:received :received; s=20151023; t=1587373918; bh=xhp2hhw6wogtdBMxn1xRz9Fb bHtAoP6WsIpvaNsHLvs=; b=vkrEai0hA3WCx+wZ2MImQBM2HKtX9oLK0kZe872y 8eUQZw1QeyR+e1rxv+tfP5BTghY343xrAcMqqSG9GP8iL3stp2nxWeFowB+OYiXx j77u87N8Yz8Zp1XbtP/P2pdoKhMuBUjqbyCgwTEeU42wtKHRyEXfgv0YkHtDviR+ sxY= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mail.daemonic.se ([IPv6:::1]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by cid.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10587) with ESMTPS id HoZXfyR_a7vr; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:11:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from garnet.daemonic.se (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:201:21b9:f28e:5614:8414]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 495LY84jW8z3mCf; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:11:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Tomasz CEDRO , FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org References: From: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:11:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495LcL5ph3z40J2 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=daemonic.se header.s=20151023 header.b=vkrEai0h; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=daemonic.se; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zeising@daemonic.se designates 176.58.89.161 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zeising@daemonic.se X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.69 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[daemonic.se:s=20151023]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-3.69)[ip: (-9.74), ipnet: 176.58.89.0/24(-4.87), asn: 36236(-3.80), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[daemonic.se:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[daemonic.se,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:176.58.89.0/24, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:14:28 -0000 On 2020-04-20 03:38, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:34 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: >> I would like to use Enlightenment (0.23.1) + Wayland. > > I did manage to run Wayland + Hikari so Wayland works on FreeBSD :-) > Ports version is 1.18 and lags behind only one release (1.20 is 1.19 > with some readme added). Are you referring to the wayland versions here? Looking at the source for both wayland and wayland-protocols, FreeBSD ports are at the latest versions, wayland 1.18, and wayland-protocols 1.20. 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[209.85.210.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i23sm72003otp.74.2020.04.20.02.38.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f52.google.com with SMTP id m13so7497546otf.6; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:38:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6046:: with SMTP id v6mr8247439otj.6.1587375503570; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:38:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> In-Reply-To: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:37:53 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: ihor@antonovs.family Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495M823Qc8z41rm X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=X/DDwMYi; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::241) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.14)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:38:28 -0000 On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ihor Antonov wrote: > On Sunday, 19 April 2020 23:49:42 PDT Clay Daniels wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 3:35 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > > Hello world :-) > > > > > > Time to move from X11 to Wayland :-) > > > > > Not everyone is so convinced that Wayland will replace Xorg: > > https://www.slant.co/versus/8634/8635/~wayland_vs_x > > > > https://www.secjuice.com/wayland-vs-xorg/ > > > > https://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/What-s-Taking-Wayland-So-Long > > _______________________________________________ > > That is exactly what I wanted to say, but kept my mouth shut, but since you > started :) I apologize upfront for this, but after reading FreeBSD mailing > lists for a while I just can't read this any more like this is something > normal. Here it comes: Discussion Groups / Mailing Lists are here to talk about, get knowledge, fix things, organize. There is nothing wrong with constructive critics. Look how many ideas showed up in just several last days :-) > Yes X is old and insecure. There are literally 2 developers still supporting > it and both work for Red Hat. They have already announced that they are going > to stop supporting it soon. OpenBSD folks at least attempted to make X better, > but in the end even they have admitted that X11 is "a giant keylogger". To be honest I did not realize the situation with X11 is that bad actually until recent problems with video drivers.. feedback from the lists opened my eyes a bit :-) Xorg has its benefits. I remember 15 years back (or more) connecting to my then Linux workstation over SSH from a Sun Terminal (that was something!) at the University and working like I was home :-) Wayland can offer VNC ;-) Xorg will work alongside Wayland. People will decide what tool suits their need (just as WindowManager or Web Server). It seems that Xorg reached its ceiling. Wayland seems Xorg alternative but lacks manpower and user base to get stable. Both projects are interesting and have their pros and cons. I am not convicting anyone to replace anything but to have more choices. > BUT FreeBSD folks are conservative bunch, some especially don't like changes > that come from "linsucks". Others say that FreeBSD is a server OS. Same > "server OS advocates" comfortably sit behind their MacBooks. There are ones > that make a living with it so any unnecessary change at the very least is > ignored or at most is actively being not welcomed. I can understand that and I think the same way. My work depends on it, my money depends on it, my brand depends on it. Stability and Maintenance first of all. With this conservative approach, however, it is important not to miss opportunities. I also worked on MacBookPro and switched back to FreeBSD on my main desktop. Because this false comfort always puts your money into a vendor pocket and lags you behind something that you can use as a vendor. > Many actively complain at their own desktop team when it tries to keep Intel > GPU drivers working (which requires following Linux DRM APIs), but nobody is > trying to write "proper BSD Intel drivers". If you start using it, you notice and report problems, then you get familiar with it, then you can fix it or create something new on top :-) The problem with "proper BSD drivers" is this constantly changing "linuxisms" in both software architecture and, even worse, hardware design. World does not care about good standard and incremental developments anymore, revolutionary bleeding edge breakthroughs are the new cool, so the whole world is chasing its tail now. > Don't get me wrong, there are people (like Warner Losh) in FreeBSD who are > trying to keep the OS in the present, but even they have hard time convincing > people that finishing the 25-year swing on removing malloc.h is the right thing > to do. Many were not happy with removing bktr(4) Brooktree Video Capture card > drivers (you can't find this hardware today even on a garage sale) I am total enemy of removing anything that works. Imagine we can time travel. It would be awsome to have the same FreeBSD in the future and operate it the same was as today with all those old and new features. Perect is the enemy of Good. Look at Blender, that was, right next to FreeBSD, my favorite piece of software that I used to give as an example of perfect design and vision. Until 2.80 where they castrated its core unique concept of Game Engine that was there since 1994 that I have used for simulations, because "noone used that and it was to hard to maintain", instead they re-designed the GUI, making Blender nothing more than just another 3D application. Kind of Unification.The same with GIMP Toolbar Menu around 2008 that was removed by the new UX team because "no other program acts like that" and "according to microsoft software development is about enforcing vision". I can clearly understand why people here keep their attitude conservative, why "cool kids" are opposed, why maintenance is more important than having a new bells and whistles every year. Simply because this is OS of the Creators not the Consumers :-) > There are many more examples, these are just the fresh ones. Read arch mailing > list, I am not making this up). A few progressive developers are outnumbered > by fanatics of retro-computing. "Don't fix what is already broken" they say, > "nobody uses it anyway" :P I wish I could run BSD on my Atari one day.. and you know that there is ATARI VCS coming up and we WILL run FreeBSD on it :-) :-) > I am afraid that on FreeBSD Wayland will remain a third-class citizen. > Look at sway for example: it needs Linux Kernel event API (evdev, luckily on > by default in 12), epoll-shim and eudev-shim, and then some magic with barely > documented kern.evdev.rcpt_mask=12 in sysctl.conf to make it work. It will come to life by people who use it and share the results :-) I know what kern.evdev.rcpt_mask=12 means! And I knew that from the /usr/src hahaha ;-) > Why? Because FreeBSD folks are generally not interested in contributing proper > kqueue and devd support to "linusucks" projects. As well as maintaining X11. > Linux developers are not going to write that either. The amount of linuxisms > and shims is only going to grow, the desktop team is fighting an uphill battle > here, there is no proper infrastructure for them to give users good Wayland > support. All they can offer is shims, hacks and workarounds. The problem is Xorg was created by people who understood standards. In modern world everyone thinks they are Tesla and no one cares about standard, architecture, maintenance, because they are so brilliant they don't have to. This is so childish. Maybe first steps of Xorg looked similar to this udev-devd-evdev problem because different systems tried to do the same thing differently and there is no standard yet. People want to create "something that works" in the first place, but that's not all. Wayland would eventually have to adapt to different approaches, or we will always have to follow and create workarounds glue day by day as you mention. > And so Wayland will slowly but surely replace X in Linux world. But even in 10 > years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11, will keep stating that they > had jails first, ZFS is cool, GPL is evil and Netflix uses FreeBSD on their > servers. > > FreeBSD is not a general purpose OS. It is a server OS, It is retro OS. It is > OS that fills the niche where closing sources is needed for commercial success. > An OS you want to put somewhere and never ever touch it again. It is not a > desktop OS, quoting someone from this very mailing list: "It is power to > serve, not power to desktop!" I think these are important remarks from people that use FreeBSD in industrial applications. These are important priorities and core values. This is also why I stick to FreeBSD not Linux. And I surely use it as general purpose OS on my Servers and Desktops. Also I smile when I look at MacBooks, iPhones, PlayStations, or people watching Netflix, because people who thinks like me made their success and I find it inspiring :-) > > > Not everyone is so convinced that Wayland will replace Xorg. > On FreeBSD it simply never will. Yes. It will coexist. Because there is no need to delete anything that works well, people are free to chose what they want to use :-) Best regards!! :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 09:56:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12512BD6DF; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495MXp4DVsz43N7; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id f3so10287135ioj.1; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:56:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fO6XGZNp8iohCN/FNjBy2p1VRRqMYGnzy+Cvfimuyno=; b=QskpS8+IdIR3zZ9PpOiXzx/XQyQuhyoAWJj0W2xLhYuuqJyTDS+DGilqBzKWZwhZkv 5zNi5HeT/H0czOc/rLG6VeqyilGeeN2oHJAdq3GzB2gumSs702kBFrIEM0mYteXKpu2D 5lE+DAOmZjHrVeZZuVmEAnGR3zryKDKuz+0CrhS8IHakPDoknllqFfAIp5INBG0rWRnD 84VCxXknby/Mkefx1vIsUWhOwhLIjP5qLhIZlSLPZVJX819jgXpXlkbjmYJjP1mkQYA4 h5D79h6G9SEfbIBL/K8+Pp1S5jufkRawI7vSIRNLT88SH02E0OPv3ZdTiesgXAPVfbQ1 AvbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fO6XGZNp8iohCN/FNjBy2p1VRRqMYGnzy+Cvfimuyno=; b=YgsSafglmTyUHcLKrQvEAjLvjUIidMHMoA6zMpW7d2Wr38nqZtqD8YA9Ba4+sw7lfb cuALJyaDkBa0waWYyRPhRFkURJJthWC4/8h3lbnMs5bSK4DJClaioPUYSyPRFAmS2aiW jrPL02M3GmfAGMfGf4/pajSZNUqaAoOkchcIWhhg+0tFrFs33830AGIGLshORNTIIp2C 1GGDt5tEbs9R44tnZMXx3eYH3vyEum1Dc7+Tl4HK28xjq7v7MQPjVVSli8TgKdx8eE4t iN9TJk6BwubNtWD4Jn+v23sB/ieD/GQFgFCayAxx8kge+mrnzzuxnhMfVleUdNEz1Rdf gV2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pubs6rrLPHw4e9bsLfI5LQkqpqcCP4PZUIn1KkE9QXyFwBVivnva c0k0gCSbMUIOSE5YLv6n4DckEomzqp9UwnpBD8qO8vR4apo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKqMH18m3ttX1ggIT001P02hJMz6F7nvdRFgsOi+BdYNGGzREAbkBa+w5gSZc+geDwc8fjAYVOPzA5D5K2XBDY= X-Received: by 2002:a02:c725:: with SMTP id h5mr14490515jao.13.1587376585082; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 02:56:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Frederic Chardon Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:56:13 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Jan Beich Cc: Tomasz CEDRO , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495MXp4DVsz43N7 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 09:56:26 -0000 Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 13:50, Jan Beich a =C3=A9c= rit : > > > I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example, > "vblank_mode=3D0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg server. ;) I decided to give it a try, is hardware acceleration supposed to work? glxgears gives 10x less fps than with X, and 3D is incredibly sluggish. eglinfo output that leads me to believe it is not: GBM platform: i965_dri.so does not support the 0xffffffff PCI ID. It is with sway, -current from yesterday, intel HD4000 iGPU (Ivybridge i5-3= 320M) no difference between drm-devel-kmod or drm-current-kmod. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 10:12:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D08B2BDE5A for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:12:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-ot1-x344.google.com (mail-ot1-x344.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::344]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495Mvl1R2Nz44fT for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:12:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-ot1-x344.google.com with SMTP id m18so7569238otq.9 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JkvzuRT4bAilELPf+wgcEqkCEkMe71D1SZUFcygdi0c=; b=MlfXhEywonkk5FuqqModO4XRQgxbPn5UdutKqbwc6tzGgNcfnbeg26YQUn//5vcp/P AeJX+orz5qZKbpVUXVnbHEkSL6lCN3L2cP8wBimRgmTWRfxjXePDtp6tEe95/bKO0boJ bNrKvzBtFjxZyDJ1l2DjSSx0/y04KFIpYt0z6XbNZv+uddv9e0Z5bZeCjp5y3/7nFMHy tMCYj56cWMR1Gh7Lnv1zpKUZ25DqNsT9j2G2ACcPAqHQW3RtR6uDWi7qAZPQ2kYskTx5 CNlYROyEpby85BA8fw/LJoPcN9uqvDTKR36e4GBhzEmPOdFbY05WZgf4F94DFUmjZfWs Bd2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JkvzuRT4bAilELPf+wgcEqkCEkMe71D1SZUFcygdi0c=; b=EXvzLYCIha6h1JxEOATo5Yb98oLfBPAmBjhuy/8Z+PuzoEw76OSPvwXXqewAPR4ZHK ttnNSQ66nx3S5EwEoVAo4TeD3w1ZK85dVJl8+LDt8CKBGqhDpRSPTjhdEInMwjGUnX9A cBHsQn0c0OHb7meuFdY8ZBWnS2pY74fzrPmsyDzQ3GPrBahhGSEu8HnjlVzDXIt4nP4W 0DNAEUz9UEOLYfLoHCgtCjQyxpRIH4nOtfATh6GC90Cbrp+V5mwLLGGKz50DFJIKI+xQ CgnShmKywhLIk2qVIADt7skek+GcU7Z7fSGB6YYN1n9X/+I+BTTj+Uv9/UTd/22ZO3g9 kjdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubMs+JY9UD40LQkvndBENURy44LVo4uhzyK5ggkJRzP7zl90bVE z0j5714pulT0SjUSPeKuVUjcdbR6qiA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJL+62KvVeNKzBJA5Zf+gdA8RC/AbG4+JK13a8StbpGP/168zmYq6F4do7MUgmiISTqKiVK+Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1b65:: with SMTP id d5mr8578448ote.141.1587377569893; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com (mail-oi1-f177.google.com. [209.85.167.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f5sm156655oos.8.2020.04.20.03.12.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id k133so8240373oih.12; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:12:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:aca:f4d0:: with SMTP id s199mr9540923oih.161.1587377568929; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 03:12:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:12:19 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Niclas Zeising Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495Mvl1R2Nz44fT X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=MlfXhEyw; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::344) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.38 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.08)[ip: (0.41), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:12:52 -0000 On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:14 AM Niclas Zeising wrote: > On 2020-04-20 03:38, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:34 PM Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > >> I would like to use Enlightenment (0.23.1) + Wayland. > > > > I did manage to run Wayland + Hikari so Wayland works on FreeBSD :-) > > Ports version is 1.18 and lags behind only one release (1.20 is 1.19 > > with some readme added). > > Are you referring to the wayland versions here? Looking at the source > for both wayland and wayland-protocols, FreeBSD ports are at the latest > versions, wayland 1.18, and wayland-protocols 1.20. Exactly! I mean we are really up to date but there seems no use of it yet..? People (including me) are confused with Xorg drivers while there may be totally better solution right next to it :-) I am new to Wayland, I saw some really minimalistic WM for it, but I know Enlightenment, it is known to work on Wayland, and this is the beautiful fully featured WM that we all know from Xorg. This could provide nice transition for people that want to try out the Wayland and maybe work on it everyday. This could also gather community and improve both Wayland and Enlightenment on FreeBSD as a strong base, then focus on more subtle works. I can understand the need for something smaller and faster than Xorg. I remember playing with MESA back then in 1998 with first 3D acceleration cards. I remember DirectFB to skip Xorg for graphics on embedded systems. I even remember when Drag-n-Drop in Xorg had several implementations. Embedded Systems and IoT will enforce using Wayland sooner or later. In its core concept its just drawing over the frame buffer memory so what's the big deal? It seems the only problem to run Enlightenment on Wayland is hardcoded Linux DMA code in EFL: https://github.com/Enlightenment/efl/blob/master/src/lib/ecore_wl2/ecore_wl2_buffer.c Do you know Niclas if current DRM drivers provide such DMA capabilities? Maybe this is also part of KMS standard? Maybe I should try with generic bus_dma(9) with no efficiency loss? Any hints welcome :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 10:20:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F10B2BE22C; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:20:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from mail.daemonic.se (mail.daemonic.se [176.58.89.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495N526VZYz45Dv; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zeising+freebsd@daemonic.se) Received: from cid.daemonic.se (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495N505YbRz3lbm; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:20:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=daemonic.se; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-language:content-type :content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date:date :message-id:from:from:references:subject:subject:received :received; s=20151023; t=1587377909; bh=N9xTWGFHQQEOmOH4fRNvEA8K z3+pWNWyNioHCodbeYY=; b=QXOEv8wodOnUHHzQNjniLWNG2YCYmd+TjNHYD8Jc x3gCpDuM2bj1RbqaifrnTTkxaYl9PsKoypL4z0d3U3nimWPRRjNWb3Zsa/i+H/yL TLgx8q5wXhceuMzLDgS2HEfFiAyLXGFCPcIcfoCJfhC6VCGRI+pbb++jjkejLABl DyM= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daemonic.se Received: from mail.daemonic.se ([IPv6:::1]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256) by cid.daemonic.se (mailscanner.daemonic.se [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10587) with ESMTPS id WpTW2u-T8m7Z; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:18:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from garnet.daemonic.se (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:dca9:201:21b9:f28e:5614:8414]) by mail.daemonic.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 495N2F1HHpz3mCm; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:18:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Greg V , Frederic Chardon Cc: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List References: <6c7abdcf-aeef-4af4-b8f4-9d7fd0e45cf0@localhost> From: Niclas Zeising Message-ID: <7fba319c-c012-8893-3ce0-e2a166c38d2d@daemonic.se> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:18:28 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6c7abdcf-aeef-4af4-b8f4-9d7fd0e45cf0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495N526VZYz45Dv X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=daemonic.se header.s=20151023 header.b=QXOEv8wo; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=daemonic.se; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zeising@daemonic.se designates 176.58.89.161 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=zeising@daemonic.se X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[daemonic.se:s=20151023]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[daemonic.se:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[daemonic.se,none]; IP_SCORE(-3.69)[ip: (-9.72), ipnet: 176.58.89.0/24(-4.86), asn: 36236(-3.80), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:176.58.89.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 10:20:56 -0000 On 2020-04-20 12:07, Greg V wrote: > Apr 20, 2020 12:56:35 PM Frederic Chardon : >=20 >> Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 13:50, Jan Beich a =C3= =A9crit : >> >>> >>> >>> I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example, >>> "vblank_mode=3D0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg server= . ;) >>> >> >> I decided to give it a try, is hardware acceleration supposed to work? >> glxgears gives 10x less fps than with X, and 3D is incredibly >> sluggish. >> eglinfo output that leads me to believe it is not: >> GBM platform: >> i965_dri.so does not support the 0xffffffff PCI ID. >> >> It is with sway, -current from yesterday, intel HD4000 iGPU (Ivybridge= i5-3320M) >> no difference between drm-devel-kmod or drm-current-kmod. >=20 > Sway itself wouldn't even start without hardware rendering, it doesn't = *have* a software renderer. >=20 > For the X applications like glxgears, I guess with the mesa build that'= s in official ports currently you still need that DRI3 something environm= ent variable.. You shouldn't need that one. We switched the default to use DRI3 not=20 long after xorg-server was updated to 1.20. https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=3Drevision&revision=3D528071 It should also be in the latest quarterly branch. Regards --=20 Niclas From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 11:43:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E42A2C036C for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:43:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from hillend.cent.gla.ac.uk (hillend.cent.gla.ac.uk [130.209.16.102]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495Pwh2tkhz4C2H for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:43:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from cas07.campus.gla.ac.uk ([130.209.14.164]) by hillend.cent.gla.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1jQUq1-00030o-8P for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:43:45 +0100 Received: from CAS08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) by cas07.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:43:44 +0100 Received: from GBR01-LO2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.21.55) by CAS08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:43:44 +0100 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=QI4h5F8NggL+R5xaxZK6y1nkiXPPkhvWqfZZGynkaV7uRNmofnlB8/sirOBJ8yt8SJRmYJrDGvYQeheRIreLOUAK6JGv/ClYi0ifHCIsPK1NOaUY6sL61fd1EEzsw3gWztkf/WkJWTzhf1NKwg9L6amKRfji4H85LTl/vQhImvrJfZGD6ufsFy1NKYr+6qQzdOYMowJXAnjAiUPXUg6TWlf5wFf+dK7B7JMCvkplAznfhnYX8FfYWeW8uXvGIotYy3W20pfITLHGE0coljXu6BcFF7h8o/ituaLkqyJAtwxzSR4DAyYn09vKn6Rm67/8iINRDn+B2+AgTfzNJAOaow== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=DEOjcxWmOdoYLd/LONK/hk2mMW2pXQmqfNm0/RWNLRA=; b=UVew+drCSNpYpz/zpwtI91fKVp+m49N5vpgugZcqkIfQ7/f2lu11klVF2emRILKUM9oe/bqAGA5Ni5plxR++1foTOLW24m1MNDZsjcDv9p0Xm9jBMOyK4Q5diDfyCp4PJzf9mdTs0lnNbKj+8+bJBCumz0SCtzNjTF4TSlsmvitB9SslDEc8oYJKwzmF/faGDW7KtRapw/u0+8p2I1Lf51+vuYH0TgOOXxL06nAf0ar0GciX0Ke0aKvirfAoTm1J89gewha8I1Vc2KiHIjyjmK4uYFzJnFeZwmM5Xf1H58NPKoO2b/bU8HZJczm2BiIAizrplQQ/y2GQH9m4yoEVVg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=glasgow.ac.uk; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=glasgow.ac.uk; dkim=pass header.d=glasgow.ac.uk; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gla.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=DEOjcxWmOdoYLd/LONK/hk2mMW2pXQmqfNm0/RWNLRA=; b=SEPiHYPiu7+qBWDKrzN99XWHzMUztNhYLHLVz2ZAx5kVxb3yJqoO828uU2TqTB1G7B5sGLChY32c8S2XkB1TYcn9mWP+Dha+X6xtxOLtBVTjKZZ/ndQLdaI7BHCXHyECAOP9IwOI+hzGlJGJ26br61M/hShlZ4RW6+wpMOoraq8= Received: from CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.164.144.19) by CWXP265MB0741.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (10.164.255.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.29; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:43:44 +0000 Received: from CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::40d7:744b:8734:b8dd]) by CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::40d7:744b:8734:b8dd%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2921.030; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:43:44 +0000 From: "Norman Gray" To: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Subject: blacklistd: what does it detect? 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I've enabled blacklistd on a 12.1 machine accessible to the open internet, but it's not blocking as many failed ssh attempts as I expect. Am I misunderstanding something? My goal is to cut down noise in the 'daily security run' output (the machine doesn't accept passwords for authentication, so I'm not particularly worried about these as break-in attempts). I'm seeing, in the logs, lots of attempts like Apr 19 12:45:34 nxg2 sshd[44480]: Invalid user monitor from 27.78.14.83 port 35510 Apr 19 12:45:34 nxg2 sshd[44480]: Connection closed by invalid user monitor 27.78.14.83 port 35510 [preauth] Apr 19 12:45:46 nxg2 sshd[44482]: Invalid user service from 27.78.14.83 port 50668 Apr 19 12:45:47 nxg2 sshd[44482]: Connection closed by invalid user service 27.78.14.83 port 50668 [preauth] Apr 19 12:46:38 nxg2 sshd[44486]: Invalid user admin from 27.78.14.83 port 40990 Apr 19 12:46:41 nxg2 sshd[44486]: Connection closed by invalid user admin 27.78.14.83 port 40990 [preauth] Apr 19 12:47:13 nxg2 sshd[44488]: Invalid user dvs from 27.78.14.83 port 42484 Apr 19 12:47:13 nxg2 sshd[44488]: Connection closed by invalid user dvs 27.78.14.83 port 42484 [preauth] This is less than 24 hours ago, at the time of writing. That IP address appears 13 times in this time period; another address 116.105.215.232 appears 8 times, 61.78.107.61 appears 36 times; a few others smaller numbers. I expect to see these addresses in both the blacklistctl dump -a output, and in the list of addresses in the port22 table in the blacklistd/22 pf anchor, but I'm not seeing either of these address in either location. Comparing this log output with the blacklistctl output and the pf table, and looking at the IP addresses with fewer attempts, I can see overlaps -- addresses which appear in two or three of the locations, but it's only partial. I'd have expected a fairly straightforward correlation between (i) failed-login log entries, (ii) entries in blacklistctl dump -a output, and (iii) entries in the pf table (modulo some complications to do with entries expiring, or not having reached their ban thresholds). However I see things in (i) but not (ii) or (iii), and things in (iii) with nothing corresponding in the other two. I'm fairly sure that blacklistd has been running continuously for at least the last 24 hours (though blacklistd isn't itself particularly chatty in the logs), so I don't _think_ there's a startup-cache issue. Examining blacklistd.conf(5) and the handbook [1], there's not a lot to configure here (which is a Good Thing, and an attractive contrast with fail2ban), so there don't seem to be many opportunities for me to break this. What am I missing? What is it that blacklistd is detecting/reporting? Best wishes, Norman [1] https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/firewalls-blacklistd.html -- Norman Gray : http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/it/ Research IT Coordinator SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK Charity number SC004401 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 11:59:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70BA2C070E; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:59:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com (mail-io1-xd43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495QGW6K5Lz4D1W; 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R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:59:16 -0000 Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 12:20, Niclas Zeising a =C3=A9crit : > > On 2020-04-20 12:07, Greg V wrote: > > Apr 20, 2020 12:56:35 PM Frederic Chardon : > > > >> Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 13:50, Jan Beich a = =C3=A9crit : > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example, > >>> "vblank_mode=3D0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg server= . ;) > >>> > >> > >> I decided to give it a try, is hardware acceleration supposed to work? > >> glxgears gives 10x less fps than with X, and 3D is incredibly > >> sluggish. > >> eglinfo output that leads me to believe it is not: > >> GBM platform: > >> i965_dri.so does not support the 0xffffffff PCI ID. > >> > >> It is with sway, -current from yesterday, intel HD4000 iGPU (Ivybridge= i5-3320M) > >> no difference between drm-devel-kmod or drm-current-kmod. > > > > Sway itself wouldn't even start without hardware rendering, it doesn't = *have* a software renderer. > > > > For the X applications like glxgears, I guess with the mesa build that'= s in official ports currently you still need that DRI3 something environmen= t variable.. > > You shouldn't need that one. We switched the default to use DRI3 not > long after xorg-server was updated to 1.20. > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=3Drevision&revision=3D528071 > It should also be in the latest quarterly branch. > Regards > -- > Niclas With or without LIBGL_DRI3_ENABLE=3D1 in the environment the result is the same. I use official packages, updated yesterday. The problem I face might be due to permission issue. ktrace shows this: 28047 eglinfo CALL openat(AT_FDCWD,0x7fffffffc820,0x100002) 28047 eglinfo NAMI "/dev/dri/card0" 28047 eglinfo RET openat 3 /..../ 28047 eglinfo CALL ioctl(0x3,0xc0106446,0x7fffffffbc70) 28047 eglinfo RET ioctl -1 errno 13 Permission denied ls -l /dev/dri/card0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 8 20 avr. 13:52 /dev/dri/card0@ -> ../drm/0 ls -l /dev/drm/0 crw-rw---- 1 root video 0x83 20 avr. 13:08 /dev/drm/0 I am in both wheel and video group, and X11 is working just fine. Any additional config is necessary? Thanks From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 17:15:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2CB2A8264 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from healer@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp10.server.rpi.edu (smtp10.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "canit.localdomain", Issuer "canit.localdomain" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495YHJ2CJYz3CcB for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:15:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from healer@rpi.edu) Received: from smtp-auth2.server.rpi.edu (smtp-auth2.server.rpi.edu [128.113.2.232]) by smtp10.server.rpi.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id 03KHFM7Y001821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:15:22 -0400 Received: from smtp-auth2.server.rpi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-auth2.server.rpi.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C91D1A04D for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.113.125.33] (calyx-28.net.rpi.edu [128.113.125.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: healer) by smtp-auth2.server.rpi.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73B821A04B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:15:22 -0400 (EDT) To: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List From: Bob Healey Subject: Building packages for a variety of systems Message-ID: <12dbced7-ae27-7d89-daf8-53fe10e2ef67@rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:15:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Bayes-Prob: 0.0001 (Score 0, tokens from: outgoing, @@RPTN) X-Spam-Score: 0.00 () [Hold at 10.10] X-CanIt-Incident-Id: 032t5fmKp X-CanIt-Geo: ip=128.113.125.33; country=US; region=New York; city=Troy; latitude=42.7273; longitude=-73.6696; http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.7273,-73.6696&z=6 X-CanItPRO-Stream: outgoing X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.113.2.230 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495YHJ2CJYz3CcB X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rpi.edu; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of healer@rpi.edu designates 128.113.2.230 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=healer@rpi.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:128.113.2.225/28]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[230.2.113.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.11.2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rpi.edu,none]; IP_SCORE(-3.75)[ip: (-9.84), ipnet: 128.113.0.0/16(-4.91), asn: 91(-3.93), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:91, ipnet:128.113.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 17:15:24 -0000 I would like to move from building ports with my custom options on each system, and move to building once in a central location, and then deploying via pkg add.  Mainly openldap, samba, BIND, and their dependencies.  Do I need to use my oldest CPU (Opteron 1000 series) as the build host, or can I get away with using something much newer (Xeon E5-2000 v3) with more cores and RAM?  I'm seeing mixed opinions about ports hard coding build CPU features into binaries, and don't want to get stuck. Thank you for your time. -- Bob Healey Systems Administrator Office of Research From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 18:21:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF832A9F7F for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495ZlV3R2kz3JJL for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using 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of systems To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <12dbced7-ae27-7d89-daf8-53fe10e2ef67@rpi.edu> From: Matthew Seaman Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 3A3m3u8bdsFp40DlIrBtSByVjqERxcfhphrEB4J8BXHUG7OAtXkZMlW/PGKDwXJq0O6Z5Tcg YHAoEiSWbXiexHgXNJyP+sqnIlhLWhSJGeJ+C83wqI6oYlZUCW00NkPxcIHnQPV/z+5wQVci TMyaWC2YCIHz4Ljs+TnwWMz0E8PNFDfHVbQ0W4PRGV7gRAqxfL+yKufauIEGbEq8rNDbSwL3 bcUCxR4ZDlaUEUwT4J8naf7rjdgiEYHs2Ig3jeK1+ER4FPG1sQARAQABtCRNYXR0aGV3IFNl YW1hbiA8bWF0dGhld0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZz6JAlQEEwEKAD4CGwMFCwkIBwMFFQoJCAsFFgMC 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Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <12dbced7-ae27-7d89-daf8-53fe10e2ef67@rpi.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WphWyU3bbjvAwujbv2Fz00ARXbzfWCbTR" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:21:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --WphWyU3bbjvAwujbv2Fz00ARXbzfWCbTR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="uEDLpCbRYw9vkn72dIT0Thg9w1hpCsTVA" --uEDLpCbRYw9vkn72dIT0Thg9w1hpCsTVA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/04/2020 18:15, Bob Healey wrote: > I would like to move from building ports with my custom options on each= > system, and move to building once in a central location, and then > deploying via pkg add.=C2=A0 Mainly openldap, samba, BIND, and their > dependencies.=C2=A0 Do I need to use my oldest CPU (Opteron 1000 series= ) as > the build host, or can I get away with using something much newer (Xeon= > E5-2000 v3) with more cores and RAM?=C2=A0 I'm seeing mixed opinions ab= out > ports hard coding build CPU features into binaries, and don't want to > get stuck. So long as you don't specify a particular CPU type in your compilation flags -- ie. leave the flags at their default settings -- then it should be absolutely fine to build on any amd64-compatible machine to deploy on practically any other amd64-compatible machine. Compilers on FreeBSD are configured to support a generic CPU which all more recent designs than the Intel 486 or 586 should be backwardly compatible with. After all, the cerntral FreeBSD package build servers are pretty highly specified rack-mount servers, but the packages built on them are expected to work on much older and less capable hardware. Cheers, Matthew --uEDLpCbRYw9vkn72dIT0Thg9w1hpCsTVA-- --WphWyU3bbjvAwujbv2Fz00ARXbzfWCbTR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAl6d6B9fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5Oc2iQ//QEjbTsggs0qVId+3cr9yLd5qYGHK1PPn7pjqhtAdHC0QjyAsYdmugP1G Z88UYDxD7KjKVTpkWbD9GxDzgpjFVvIVwL+1KAxG/exdXLswh81LdwCkt1UUsrQm wQvJAff8O8TT3/dMVhoxDgkJrccDcE7Q7h9bV5ucfhnK0hUGTUiX0a2dFyMO4Glg GNxPnnxUaSHUudnh9kgqwgyLVfx4QpeF+amY6W3wxoFn7K7NXmJAsRj/IQ6W1SYh xvAmhtXAha/y2+Mzcb2+P76DoWjxJI1Lz3cI51DMR4tiuWuZNkx0grd378O4l5ue voq4LI5vboB6m54f4nWsAGPsaS+6Q2CrA4STBHFe6AJPpxIBp9x+1w4PWEffM6dZ oksuYBpCRYpJL0J00ZfOyYF7kx4cKxNC0jcxjYiWMnVDgPkcQFjh2geCQjfyRnW8 78I/NPXrtT/0HOKcVd2lVLBN6mBgwrMZFTah2kMOhOROkcJp7pUVyF6/OterK4Ug kpijnJ0rLmYowFoMOnlRa/A604fOgQDWJ5zw23KF3UpX8L0tXhhU0deo4YPFroaH mC/S2PyvQ7UPqNhnjJuqxj6T410g5qu6b6icsOw3K2dzir8dOjExk/RR2LiptaNv CFddPQHwOrygWpEz4GIYrDYQu4NmkqWm/7cRpHgVBs4rubkiIYo= =q/5h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WphWyU3bbjvAwujbv2Fz00ARXbzfWCbTR-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 18:25:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1872AA35E; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:25:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12b.google.com (mail-il1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495ZrJ2frTz3K1B; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:25:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id c16so3943789ilr.3; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 11:25:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KS/n19UvFOCgVPwC2BdNCfeqYznNj0wOrR/C8NZuOr0=; b=mOi2qCMQRCMUhtEDwAXDKO8FHEa5/xeVQzd9mF62XgGEs9ohK0Lwpj+mxfqT5Y3I1d UFKk5sL5FK7n4be63o6N/kP3EvzXHhFL0MtpmsDNJ17XVu/m9B1hjhUHqYANgWl4EzKi YFNYHb/emMvImq9J4QqoDGyWtx6YILOtlij3G8jNTnSb3rd7BKDDIeWfCvuudkOToXnQ Bhq4zkJNKoC7hC5xwecvkSV5lUt9dLveG+zfovQl3ESW1dHmN85X2hojxeXV3Tw0/Fwx 5ManbYuShOIB6WMbBz4UJPwmoz83LYiXSOIqlzDBa6EBkFKrdszNVdACfVLkPU6dWC6G j2Ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495ZrJ2frTz3K1B X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:25:36 -0000 Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 15:20, Jan Beich a =C3=A9c= rit : > > Frederic Chardon writes: > > > Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 12:20, Niclas Zeising > > a =C3=A9crit : > > > >> > >> On 2020-04-20 12:07, Greg V wrote: > >> > Apr 20, 2020 12:56:35 PM Frederic Chardon : > >> > > >> >> Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 13:50, Jan Beich a= =C3=A9crit : > >> >> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For example= , > >> >>> "vblank_mode=3D0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg ser= ver. ;) > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> I decided to give it a try, is hardware acceleration supposed to wo= rk? > >> >> glxgears gives 10x less fps than with X, and 3D is incredibly > >> >> sluggish. > >> >> eglinfo output that leads me to believe it is not: > >> >> GBM platform: > >> >> i965_dri.so does not support the 0xffffffff PCI ID. > >> >> > >> >> It is with sway, -current from yesterday, intel HD4000 iGPU (Ivybri= dge i5-3320M) > >> >> no difference between drm-devel-kmod or drm-current-kmod. > >> > > >> > Sway itself wouldn't even start without hardware rendering, it doesn= 't *have* a software renderer. > >> > > >> > For the X applications like glxgears, I guess with the mesa build > >> > that's in official ports currently you still need that DRI3 > >> > something environment variable.. > >> > >> You shouldn't need that one. We switched the default to use DRI3 not > >> long after xorg-server was updated to 1.20. > >> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=3Drevision&revision=3D528071 > >> It should also be in the latest quarterly branch. > >> Regards > >> -- > >> Niclas > > > > With or without LIBGL_DRI3_ENABLE=3D1 in the environment the result is > > the same. I use official packages, updated yesterday. > > > > The problem I face might be due to permission issue. ktrace shows this: > > 28047 eglinfo CALL openat(AT_FDCWD,0x7fffffffc820,0x100002) > > 28047 eglinfo NAMI "/dev/dri/card0" > > 28047 eglinfo RET openat 3 > > /..../ > > 28047 eglinfo CALL ioctl(0x3,0xc0106446,0x7fffffffbc70) > > 28047 eglinfo RET ioctl -1 errno 13 Permission denied > > What initializes DRI3 is Xwayland which is started by Sway. DRI3 can > fail for weird reasons (e.g., bug 241821), so make sure you have > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23846 > > As graphics/mesa-demos doesn't install eglgears_wayland to check OpenGL > acceleration in native Wayland clients try multimedia/mpv instead e.g., > > $ pkg install mpv > $ mpv --no-config --msg-level=3Dvo/gpu=3Dv --gpu-api=3Dopengl --gpu-con= text=3Dwayland /path/to/foo.mp4 Thanks, I'm at r360105 so this fix is included. mpv doesn't output any erro= r. I installed benchmarks/glmark2, it scores an average of 8 times less fps under wayland than X11. So wayland in general works, but OpenGL is slow. Is it expected? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:19:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E492ABF5B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:19:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.localdomain (dontpanic.foucry.net [80.67.176.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495c2l023bz3QM9 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:19:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.foucry.net (mithril.foucry.net [127.0.0.1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38A318B76 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 From: Jacques Foucry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-ID: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495c2l023bz3QM9 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=foucry.net (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[foucry.net : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[mithril.localdomain]; HFILTER_HELO_NORES_A_OR_MX(0.30)[mithril.localdomain]; IP_SCORE(-0.99)[ipnet: 80.67.160.0/19(-2.76), asn: 20766(-2.17), country: FR(0.00)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:19:43 -0000 Dear all, According to this page (https://www.freshports.org/x11/terminator/), using latest as pkg repo, I should be able to install 'terminator'. But, ``` sudo pkg install terminator Password: Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... FreeBSD repository is up to date. All repositories are up to date. Updating database digests format: 100% pkg: No packages available to install matching 'terminator' have been found in the repositories ``` pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? Thanks in advance for opening my eyes, there must be a detail that I did not see. -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:25:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEE142AC277 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-oi1-x241.google.com (mail-oi1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495c9p0JN4z3Qrd for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:25:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-oi1-x241.google.com with SMTP id r25so9883457oij.4 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:25:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Msad3AxK1JG6YID7otx0brSwDOsLSBRCiW4X6LM5r7M=; b=iP3GQla6VG4twvbD59dcz/SXjdU9Da+M8LP8qqtB8iDm/KZumAtXZ4XJxpYqIClrfM jigbtaUiehfZklTDN4AtYh+VDPB0icFDcgqRJMPEKCEgaq5bd/io6YuJLWVAPTtQY7dB njIkIShJcgwOcJHu0UXtFUC5byw894n3ouufi4tEyirAezD7d5pTUf81NTytFy98pKkU wD4lAvsA/ZiNSqNs+ZGwhAG8dYxPmTcDMXPhJwOBaahrqzYMdgZep9sww4xLZEt+y7DR 4JnXFTPu8n8G8Nq1y6SVlSt1McMrXBs7JujU1DL2m3mZ6P+gd4VEht6Da3jk9ZGdHPHa ZGMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Msad3AxK1JG6YID7otx0brSwDOsLSBRCiW4X6LM5r7M=; b=lchDwqI+bfDQDlWbTNBUK1MtL6JFoXrWZf0p/cCXDYiTLVXnkJRu4prBpqc94MZcQb j61Nme+jEEp1AXnBwECFoyhkFAEGajz1R80ff8CtEXugPpSYzt7QQLX+wCmPaIgRDpiL 3dMizAfzvjxRui4VL9UUusGJGnmrSe3GFkQdPkSgoN2ZCpfJ0DZkIPalFkXs6zccyAyF WeGLHMwY015rbQl7P0cJEpy+G7yo63/BYEw6/XU4S4fmPFMJpgDidhQkxvHvk6g0ZqQ0 18kQRcf8IUF8NolmwYkvmz09tgBFG+j4U0MtsTTfml+kqJsjy7d2tSP72wMgG407Arkg 1yOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubuHfkGsYrH1r2uNLuDnaXZLSP83Av2HbzYzE5HizuWjeDnDRVa xWODDl+gmH4YcVbyYI5teSMYLWD6hi8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLws0TJOvpVvPmzb8jXoUqPWaiBgiJxiJAjTnWUJ1C3DnBJK4W9OM92En6JpEWn6fIViAghVw== X-Received: by 2002:aca:a857:: with SMTP id r84mr720184oie.69.1587410748635; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com (mail-oi1-f172.google.com. [209.85.167.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t4sm84135oih.6.2020.04.20.12.25.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id q204so9825352oia.13; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:25:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:485:: with SMTP id z5mr716844oid.78.1587410747535; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:25:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:25:16 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Greg V Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495c9p0JN4z3Qrd X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=iP3GQla6; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::241) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-0.14)[ip: (0.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:25:50 -0000 On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:59 AM Greg V wrote: > There are no "Linux specific DMA transfers" in userspace applications :) = DMA-BUF is basically a way to refer to GPU buffers from userspace, pass the= m around as file descriptors, and synchronize access to them. Of course it = is supported, it's a very important part of the DRM stack. Hmm, is it then normal to use on non-Linux code like this? #include #include "linux-dmabuf-unstable-v1-client-protocol.h" struct zwp_linux_dmabuf_v1 *dmabuf; struct zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1 *dp; dmabuf =3D ecore_wl2_display_dmabuf_get(ewd); dp =3D zwp_linux_dmabuf_v1_create_params(dmabuf); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_add(dp, db->fd, 0, 0, db->stride, 0, 0); buf =3D zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_create_immed(dp, db->w, db->h, format, flags); wl_buffer_add_listener(buf, &buffer_listener, db); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_destroy(dp); static void _create_succeeded(void *data EINA_UNUSED, struct zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1 *params, struct wl_buffer *new_buffer) { wl_buffer_destroy(new_buffer); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_destroy(params); } zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_destroy(params); struct zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1 *dp; dp =3D zwp_linux_dmabuf_v1_create_params(ewd->wl.dmabuf); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_add(dp, buf->fd, 0, 0, buf->stride, 0, 0); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_add_listener(dp, ¶ms_listener, ewd); zwp_linux_buffer_params_v1_create(dp, buf->w, buf->h, DRM_FORMAT_ARGB8888, 0); Is this some sort of Linux KMS/DRM specification that keeps explict "linux" name hardcoded and we have them too on FreeBSD named that way? Never seen anything like this :-) > Nothing currently installs the uapi header that contain= s some definitions for the sync ioctl, but the ioctl works: > https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/kms-drm/blob/drm-v4.16/linuxkpi/gplv2/s= rc/linux_dmabuf.c > > Chromium currently patches ifdefs to use the inlined copy of the header t= hat's already there for older Linux installations: > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/blob/master/www/chromium/files/p= atch-ui_gfx_linux_client__native__pixmap__dmabuf.cc > https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/tags/84.0.4120.1/ui= /gfx/linux/client_native_pixmap_dmabuf.cc > > But really we need a tiny port that installs that header already :) Will look into this in a free moment and report back! Does this mean we only put that header and things start workin? ;-) Thank you Greg!! :-) --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:34:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5067B2AC98B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:34:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495cN266cZz3xDh for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:34:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.142.145]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E9204E672 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:34:42 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:34:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495cN266cZz3xDh X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[145.142.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.961,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.10)[ip: (0.30), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.15), asn: 160(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.950,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:34:44 -0000 On 4/20/20 2:19 PM, Jacques Foucry wrote: > Dear all, > > According to this page (https://www.freshports.org/x11/terminator/), using > latest as pkg repo, I should be able to install 'terminator'. > > But, > ``` > sudo pkg install terminator > Password : > Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... > FreeBSD repository is up to date. > All repositories are up to date. > Updating database digests format: 100% > pkg: No packages available to install matching 'terminator' have been found in the repositories > ``` > > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? Nothing is wrong, this merely means that terminator is not built and hence is not distributed as package. There may be several reasons for that. I can think of some (without regard to any specific package: 1. software may need custom option choices, which may be diverse, mutually exclusive and there is no reason to think one will be reasonable prevailing choice by users 2. port may have trouble building, maybe sometimes 3. port may lag behind sometimes, and even it it is catching up, it is not always up-to-date (port maintaner often really needs to thweak thigs with every change of software) 4. port is orphaned, and there is no maintaner currently 5. - I'm sure there may be a bunch of other reasons, hopefully some expert will add and/or correct me What you can do is to build it yourself: portsnap fetch extract cd `find /usr/ports -name terminator` make install clean Valeri > > Thanks in advance for opening my eyes, there must be a detail that I did not > see. > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:38:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2BB2ACE77 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495cSD2WzLz3xgZ for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 54E5D2ACE76; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:20 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A8F2ACE75 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [IPv6:2607:f740:c::4ae]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495cSC1vG7z3xgX for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (unknown [IPv6:2602:41:642b:600::6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8B9B38D21 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2602:41:642b:630:e9e5:f7a:bf1c:ca79] (unknown [IPv6:2602:41:642b:630:e9e5:f7a:bf1c:ca79]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E9C6B1B93 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:38:11 -0700 (PDT) To: questions@freebsd.org From: Mel Pilgrim Subject: Root on GELI+ZFS without a separate boot pool? Message-ID: <5c8c640c-8811-d7f4-a239-f42fcac3688f@bluerosetech.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:38:12 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495cSC1vG7z3xgX X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com designates 2607:f740:c::4ae as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bluerosetech.com]; IP_SCORE(-3.31)[ip: (-8.52), ipnet: 2607:f740:c::/48(-4.19), asn: 36236(-3.80), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:2607:f740:c::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:38:20 -0000 Threads on others lists mentioned that with 12-R it's no longer necessary to have a separate boot pool when using a GELI-encrypted root ZFS pool. The documentation I can find only shows the simple case of using a passphrase without a boot pool, or the "legacy" configuration of using keyfiles with a separate boot pool. The use case is data privacy on a failed disk sent back to the OEM under RMA combined with unattended restarts. Prompting for a passphrase can't happen. The means to decrypt the GELI volumes must never be stored on the disk with the encrypted partitions. It seems like it would work if the loader could access a separate filesystem containing just the keys, but nothing in the documentation suggests how to do this. That is, the configuration for using GELI keys assumes the keys are on the same filesytem as the loader. How do I get rid of having a separate /boot pool in my use case? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:47:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063F02AD377; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from echo.brtsvcs.net (echo.brtsvcs.net [208.111.40.118]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495cfl5gxkz3yVk; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:47:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (unknown [IPv6:2602:41:642b:600::6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client CN "chombo.houseloki.net", Issuer "brtsvcs.net CA" (verified OK)) by echo.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E0AD38F58; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:47:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2602:41:642b:630:e9e5:f7a:bf1c:ca79] (unknown [IPv6:2602:41:642b:630:e9e5:f7a:bf1c:ca79]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D831A1B9A; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Office Hours To: Allan Jude , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <94201a1b-b8b3-86c7-5b46-ad4be52b4a85@freebsd.org> From: Mel Pilgrim Message-ID: <29db3e65-eb5e-0bb4-b36a-0314e1ccf26c@bluerosetech.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 12:47:26 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <94201a1b-b8b3-86c7-5b46-ad4be52b4a85@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495cfl5gxkz3yVk X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:47:28 -0000 On 2020-04-20 9:49, Allan Jude wrote: > Last week we had another FreeBSD Office Hours session, the video can be > found here: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MpltC87L3E > > It was less well attended, likely due to the time slot. TBQH, I thought "FreeBSD Office Hours" was an April Fools' joke. The original announcement was dated for April 1, and having something called "Office Hours" for an online development community was enough of a non sequitur to make me conclude it was tongue-in-cheek. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 19:58:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50FE2ADD4D for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:58:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495cvw5byQz410p for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1587412733; x=1590004733; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=DlZ1JWO3VPlsNvHoc7eDZuY6DrdpdZNHRdnRRQNnnOY=; b=Hq4Bsxn8z8WBubTgBQmkj1Osmpp4QV2TD/8gnLog1dOAWdEsXgN+VVaLdolddlMtYa1C01ivolA9M22XFk6/baQdZtYTvU0rnRm2R6PdzbwPuouZ/PzGLrNLmpvBwvANXXFH+V1F5kOXbP+PX24BSxBxLj/UMp1sXPwvHgwtH78= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDMyNzdkYWMuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.h.in.socketlabs.com (r3.h.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.180.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:58:48 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:58:47 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jQcZ3-00085g-Pl; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:58:45 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:58:45 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Jacques Foucry Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-Id: <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495cvw5byQz410p X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=Hq4Bsxn8; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.975,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.23), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.33), asn: 7381(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003277dac.59fb01b23a372acf0d93f9771d3ca1d8@email-od.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:58:53 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 Jacques Foucry wrote: > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 It's deprecated for using an old version of python and has past the expiry date for getting fixed. Presumably it is also on its way out of the ports tree unless someone steps up and sorts it out. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:01:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B884B2ADEE2 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:01:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from oceanview.tundraware.com (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailman.tundraware.com", Issuer "mailman.tundraware.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495cyb4LNTz41Lf for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:01:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ozzie.tundraware.com [75.145.138.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by oceanview.tundraware.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 03KK0uo8038998 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:00:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) To: FreeBSD Mailing List From: Tim Daneliuk Subject: More On FreeBSD Network Speed (Was: Changes To nat-ing Behaviour?) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:00:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 15:00:57 -0500 (CDT) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-TundraWare-MailScanner-ID: 03KK0uo8038998 X-TundraWare-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-TundraWare-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-2.077, required 1, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, AWL 0.82, BAYES_00 -1.90) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-From: tundra@tundraware.com X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495cyb4LNTz41Lf X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tundra@tundraware.com designates 45.55.60.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tundra@tundraware.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.35 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tundraware.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.920,0]; IP_SCORE(0.56)[ip: (-1.32), ipnet: 45.55.32.0/19(2.92), asn: 14061(1.25), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.69)[-0.691,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:45.55.32.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:01:12 -0000 I have a FreeBSD 11-STABLE firewall/router/NATing host that has an re0 NIC pointing at the internet and an older PCI Intel em0 device supporting a nonroutable IP space on an internal LAN. I recently discovered that my throughput from the LAN to the internet suddenly lost 50% of the available bandwidth. Going directly from the FreeBSD firewall host to internet was fine. After some hours of fiddling with cables and switches, everything pointed to the old PCI em0 card in the firewall box. I had another one here, but it too showed half speed. Both of these cards have a LOT of hours on them, so we got newer Intel PCIe em0 card and, voila', problem fixed. (So, either these cards aged to point where they cannot run at full speed (which I have only very rarely ever seen before), or them most recent em0 driver is misconfigured for these older cards somehow.) But there continues to be a performance puzzle I cannot quite figure out. For our purposes, there are three machines on the LAN: The FreeBSD NATing firewall, a Mac laptop, and a Linux workstation. Using iPerf3, I tested network throughput pairwise between these machines. I got some very strange results (results are the same regardless of which machine served as client or server): MacOS <-> Linux ~933 Mbits/sec MacOS <-> FreeBSD ~933 Mbits/sec FreeBSD <-> Linux ~533 Mbits/sec Linux and FreeBSD have superframe MTUs of 9000 set MacOS MTU is set to 1500. The FreeBSD machine does also serve Samba and NFS mounts into the LAN but disabling this had no effect on the results. Neither did setting the Linux MTU to 1500. In short, the network switches and wiring can sustain nearly the full 1G speed as expected, but - when FreeBSD and Linux try talk - the speed is seriously compromised. Clearly, FreeBSD can hit that speed since it did so with the Mac. I am scratching my head on this one. Any ideas from the Geniuses Present would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:12:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43492AE69F for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:12:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.localdomain (dontpanic.foucry.net [80.67.176.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495dCl5r4Fz42Tv for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.foucry.net (mithril.foucry.net [127.0.0.1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2A318BB3; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 From: Jacques Foucry To: Steve O'Hara-Smith Cc: Jacques Foucry , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-ID: <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> Mail-Followup-To: Steve O'Hara-Smith , Jacques Foucry , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495dCl5r4Fz42Tv X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=foucry.net (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[foucry.net : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[mithril.localdomain]; HFILTER_HELO_NORES_A_OR_MX(0.30)[mithril.localdomain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.98)[ipnet: 80.67.160.0/19(-2.74), asn: 20766(-2.16), country: FR(0.00)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:12:36 -0000 Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 20:58:45 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 > Jacques Foucry wrote: > > > > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > > > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? > > These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. > > DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 > EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 Hug… Don't find those lines on the Makefile in my port three: Instaed, concerning python, I have those lines: USES= gnome python:3.5+ shebangfix USE_GNOME= intltool pygobject3 vte3 USE_PYTHON= autoplist distutils And it compile perfectly on my system FreeBSD mithril 12.1-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p3 GENERIC amd64 Look strange isnt'it? -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:16:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176172AE8A9; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:16:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x130.google.com (mail-il1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495dJ56y9Sz42pJ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:16:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x130.google.com with SMTP id x2so9892686ilp.13; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:16:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LB2kBGCQ8JQXLcRlJiRndGTLOlyEwlw37Q0lCCMEcnQ=; b=VKUkKdEi+LvNsi1EioQvsxJmQdKQmDZDG2B19IC039pvqM5/j1Xze46KiOAZhrJVOC +VHNWlkD/vFaWzx+B3hFpDeQAcQTwLidPRbtW8pCsH7myvuoWpR9PQdhwm31aO1vDCr2 4umjMikwlKXInO3OLrsFM+XsWtAToA60Tt8TDwpzS2ugFYUfAdx4bkHqhqoZmQLcM0GN tV0FiENpvyAFDzVSDuCN9JpIpCHaqXQX3HgAxzmmq4NF5txvfVApkLPmynydrwM3gBjE VckZBXIbKKSCQ2o6I4fs0iH7n/BMIshWMk8YOg5IiMrClKxiBHxGZdxxpNutZ7rJVgwr p+BQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LB2kBGCQ8JQXLcRlJiRndGTLOlyEwlw37Q0lCCMEcnQ=; b=DiPeQ1A9wJx858ULf2gPvgDDslU8uIVaV6qDjDOEMxBr/Fn6AGZ4gC5ADHZ8zU6m4+ a9npkh4ET6gPVPeOSosrkY+wYX2DkVihqXLD6EI6SaJ9SdaJ8KGrhhZumvy8iIgEkOg8 eXmf4Q1UdBL9oezzCmpU7DSCJRmG9jEtvrTHNJcQMal/yx54RWcfntUmFqinS16yNFxh y50zaYyruXfx6UxXR2EYirV5BZwScptNbERlDAs2K++erI9eZg/6v5W01iOMrMkpU+3i u9iKJf3MNwD086YzDZcONW0j4uBrF437PCLzP7TvnNu9GwgMLWqB2kNRwpWd9ziMbgTw FQOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYMkJ8IfhGw9cgVf4FJ1EheQ7vgUAUSpgNX92ketmLvU4AWEn/6 F9C5Zk3AbODTnQAQR2Eyi6VjPRO1niZ19hYkB0qglKnfY8Gmdw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIvsp/rJabxeTjByJyrW1fh7uj3RZIfSMlDTAWOLs0VzXb4EjmMgvlvlMcIP/OV7z1publkJVNrl54Tf7c6CpA= X-Received: by 2002:a92:8bd1:: with SMTP id i200mr18295526ild.46.1587413780142; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 13:16:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6c7abdcf-aeef-4af4-b8f4-9d7fd0e45cf0@localhost> <7fba319c-c012-8893-3ce0-e2a166c38d2d@daemonic.se> In-Reply-To: From: Frederic Chardon Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:16:08 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: Jan Beich Cc: Niclas Zeising , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495dJ56y9Sz42pJ X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:16:22 -0000 Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 20:54, Jan Beich a =C3=A9c= rit : > > Frederic Chardon writes: > > > Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 15:20, Jan Beich a =C3= =A9crit : > > > >> > >> Frederic Chardon writes: > >> > >> > Le lun. 20 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 12:20, Niclas Zeising > >> > a =C3=A9crit : > >> > > >> >> > >> >> On 2020-04-20 12:07, Greg V wrote: > >> >> > Apr 20, 2020 12:56:35 PM Frederic Chardon : > >> >> > > >> >> >> Le dim. 19 avr. 2020 =C3=A0 13:50, Jan Beich a =C3=A9crit : > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> I'm using Sway myself primarily with X11 applications. For exam= ple, > >> >> >>> "vblank_mode=3D0 glxgears" shows 3x more FPS than on real Xorg = server. ;) > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I decided to give it a try, is hardware acceleration supposed to= work? > >> >> >> glxgears gives 10x less fps than with X, and 3D is incredibly > >> >> >> sluggish. > >> >> >> eglinfo output that leads me to believe it is not: > >> >> >> GBM platform: > >> >> >> i965_dri.so does not support the 0xffffffff PCI ID. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It is with sway, -current from yesterday, intel HD4000 iGPU (Ivy= bridge i5-3320M) > >> >> >> no difference between drm-devel-kmod or drm-current-kmod. > >> >> > > >> >> > Sway itself wouldn't even start without hardware rendering, it do= esn't *have* a software renderer. > >> >> > > >> >> > For the X applications like glxgears, I guess with the mesa build > >> >> > that's in official ports currently you still need that DRI3 > >> >> > something environment variable.. > >> >> > >> >> You shouldn't need that one. We switched the default to use DRI3 n= ot > >> >> long after xorg-server was updated to 1.20. > >> >> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=3Drevision&revision=3D528071 > >> >> It should also be in the latest quarterly branch. > >> >> Regards > >> >> -- > >> >> Niclas > >> > > >> > With or without LIBGL_DRI3_ENABLE=3D1 in the environment the result = is > >> > the same. I use official packages, updated yesterday. > >> > > >> > The problem I face might be due to permission issue. ktrace shows th= is: > >> > 28047 eglinfo CALL openat(AT_FDCWD,0x7fffffffc820,0x100002) > >> > 28047 eglinfo NAMI "/dev/dri/card0" > >> > 28047 eglinfo RET openat 3 > >> > /..../ > >> > 28047 eglinfo CALL ioctl(0x3,0xc0106446,0x7fffffffbc70) > >> > 28047 eglinfo RET ioctl -1 errno 13 Permission denied > >> > >> What initializes DRI3 is Xwayland which is started by Sway. DRI3 can > >> fail for weird reasons (e.g., bug 241821), so make sure you have > >> > >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D23846 > >> > >> As graphics/mesa-demos doesn't install eglgears_wayland to check OpenG= L > >> acceleration in native Wayland clients try multimedia/mpv instead e.g.= , > >> > >> $ pkg install mpv > >> $ mpv --no-config --msg-level=3Dvo/gpu=3Dv --gpu-api=3Dopengl --gpu-= context=3Dwayland /path/to/foo.mp4 > > > > Thanks, I'm at r360105 so this fix is included. mpv doesn't output any = error. > > What does mpv show as GL_RENDERER? If not llvmpipe (or swrast) then > hardware acceleration in native Wayland clients works fine for you. [vo/gpu/wayland] GL_RENDERER=3D'Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile ' > > > I installed benchmarks/glmark2, it scores an average of 8 times less > > fps under wayland than X11. So wayland in general works, but OpenGL is > > slow. Is it expected? > > glmark2 doesn't seem to support Wayland natively, so like glxgears it > tests Xwayland support. If Xwayland failed to initialize DRI3 then > all X11 clients would use slow software rendering. > > $ printenv | fgrep -i display > DISPLAY=3D:0 > WAYLAND_DISPLAY=3Dwayland-0 > > $ env -u DISPLAY glmark2 > Error: main: Could not initialize canvas > > $ env -u DISPLAY glmark2-es2 > Error: main: Could not initialize canvas I have the exact same output for all 3. > > Try starting Sway via "ktrace -i" or replace Xwayland binary with a > wrapper (see below) that starts it via ktrace. Tracing glxgears is too > late as Mesa will simply give up if DRI3 is not initialized. > > # Make sure Xwayland on restart prints "i965_dri.so does not support the = 0xffffffff PCI ID." > $ pkill Xwayland > $ PATH=3D$HOME/.local/bin:$PATH > $ cat ~/.local/bin/Xwayland > #! /bin/sh > > # Exclude current directory from PATH > PATH=3D$(IFS=3D:; for p in $PATH; do case $p in (${0%/*});; (*) echo -n "= $p:" ;; esac; done) > > # Run the actual app > exec ktrace -f /tmp/xwayland.$(id -u).ktrace ${0##*/} "$@" The trace shows usage of llvmpipe after the failed ioctl on /dev/dri/card0, so as I understand the lack of hardware acceleration concerns only Xwayland, whereas wayland itself is accelerated ? I also have this output: Refusing to try glamor on llvmpipe EGL setup failed, disabling glamor Failed to initialize glamor, falling back to sw From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:20:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9452AEC3B for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:20:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495dNt0Vmfz43J7 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1587414030; x=1590006030; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=N+3Wy6eEcxyyxxZi/MIC1mIBHD1w9t46mQCvBVQjOWE=; b=h/VV5feyUNBq7Wc/2e/KQtjCaKm06FRjcHKIubHFSlrJhAOAnNIfMjFY5KPNDtPx252U2BXf+a3CzbbXYnlFhdYqgv8bd1/DdCNiiq1V6YCPiTXGTWUgrURrz4CYum2Ekoax6tWRaq12KlLNq8Q8VTIOu46mBAKwi8esFOlyJ0Y= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDMyOTAxYmQuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.3]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:20:21 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 20 Apr 2020 16:20:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jQctv-0008Cw-0Y; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:20:19 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:20:18 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Jacques Foucry Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-Id: <20200420212018.7adfeb3713b143b243d83090@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495dNt0Vmfz43J7 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=h/VV5fey; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.63 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.23), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.33), asn: 7381(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100032901bd.2df80027e185ca560ed3acf7816df01a@email-od.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:20:30 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 Jacques Foucry wrote: > Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 20:58:45 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 > > Jacques Foucry wrote: > > > > > > > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > > > > > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? > > > > These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. > > > > DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 > > EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 > > Hug… > > Don't find those lines on the Makefile in my port three: > Instaed, concerning python, I have those lines: > > USES= gnome python:3.5+ shebangfix looks like my ports tree needs an update :) > USE_GNOME= intltool pygobject3 vte3 > USE_PYTHON= autoplist distutils > > And it compile perfectly on my system Quarterly packages perhaps ? -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:31:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05DA82AF29D for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:31:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.localdomain (dontpanic.foucry.net [80.67.176.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495dd326Pqz44HM for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:31:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.foucry.net (mithril.foucry.net [127.0.0.1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1648018BB5; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:31:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:31:02 +0200 From: Jacques Foucry To: Steve O'Hara-Smith Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-ID: <20200420203102.GD2970@mithril.foucry.net> Mail-Followup-To: Steve O'Hara-Smith , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420212018.7adfeb3713b143b243d83090@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20200420212018.7adfeb3713b143b243d83090@sohara.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495dd326Pqz44HM X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=foucry.net (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.57 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[foucry.net : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[mithril.localdomain]; HFILTER_HELO_NORES_A_OR_MX(0.30)[mithril.localdomain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-0.98)[ipnet: 80.67.160.0/19(-2.73), asn: 20766(-2.15), country: FR(0.00)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:31:04 -0000 Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 21:20:18 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 > Jacques Foucry wrote: > > > Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 20:58:45 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > > > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 > > > Jacques Foucry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > > > > > > > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? > > > > > > These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. > > > > > > DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 > > > EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 > > > > Hug… > > > > Don't find those lines on the Makefile in my port three: > > Instaed, concerning python, I have those lines: > > > > USES= gnome python:3.5+ shebangfix > > looks like my ports tree needs an update :) :-) I made an update just befor compiling. :-) > > > USE_GNOME= intltool pygobject3 vte3 > > USE_PYTHON= autoplist distutils > > > > And it compile perfectly on my system > > Quarterly packages perhaps ? No, I use lastest: [snip] Repositories: FreeBSD: { url : "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/FreeBSD:12:amd64/latest", enabled : yes, priority : 0, mirror_type : "SRV", signature_type : "FINGERPRINTS", fingerprints : "/usr/share/keys/pkg" } -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Apr 20 20:42:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789132AF75A for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:42:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495dt26wvFz45PC for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:42:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MulyX-1j8xy12snT-00rqev; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:42:14 +0200 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:42:14 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-Id: <20200420224214.266961b7.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bdBN8dYFkkBYtAa5e9QSDgzWAZsKdHnnsv93vZ8c6PV40NvsOKs RnUlqx1z3RTVB73DoNNkb1v337Hdj1IOOcl0iYlys0WQFfYqu3qvPfvHa06wSlguXoFn9ON RbplbXdCkVNQBjq01LK2EKoTWlwi43HTb2CwXEz1S5yIdKlwAmbSHPgHSdhU7/Hew0dS/8W 3RpISta1duBrdx6SSyvEw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:lRl7y+LH240=:3GAPvK4ffJWHkL8UeNR9LV FxuoeNBdmscyhPqWw4Z1KHUFd6M00u5txVIWuE+9O3rJxSemH4bOkboK/hOPg4rhvckscydU2 YQ02X9uDgKxSpzidYR9TKbcTvDD1cs0qsMF/+2uQDsHnWtdwnSVyiitsHQ+ef7F0/6SWaVdmj ZFx/mxvhv4fcDBSms12ZUW8wlwTyfMBwtkYfvT9twCnqezi2PEpTc8RFn6XzBd9QrHhUv8PQZ 62eCswdyebycpLEK2h3K7TD8RN16gqo4mycOXo9CykN1ujwg40Z92pbHafomnGtUoStWoABng fQV93SR18wNNdj2uodv47Gway6+3JE8sMeOJiqEJr4qGtx/HN7rENO0KrP5bU9GwuRwiG6aDt RUEhvQtnvetSxZNl+2PIY2uQbM04yVaWkFdZrdYeub9COg/QrEoYp758NrghajfI88DXtUaes 1hBAny3z9n4BYvYZwRCtPDzL7kPTjO64cD3Z8QcczgeN7wCbxFA5CBA7grLluGt/qtXErzrW+ neCRZwIRMgfZ0mUdVjw5Td7A/VbpipMAM3uVNuJnvgsi/NQFEzCXZ/j7Pd+WYq/0AFgXg8nTA LxpxWKTMZ9zEQDUo8TprYYsz5K2/PwmUBFUBoATqerOTsi648E92hi86J7x+IeIBdLvILgV2n Sjxy0dPDNafLFPqBHun9kfiIgm1PK58LZzeAFU0bXSeLsLTwC7kmeZe6rs1SV0cxsPKVPE103 DR8pocfOui/M8tCtpP6cyTTXMKBoZpdPqETjziF2vhkmrC4iz2joshPOipceX491Yv/a/L4Bu QF9zaNTagRRYvTLDfP2UXpvkVpFKiom+/Xh/x5oF5P5R47pdIIn5IsJDyZx+WIVY4/l5pb3 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495dt26wvFz45PC X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.13) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.09)[ip: (-0.42), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.20), asn: 8560(2.08), country: DE(-0.02)]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.27.222.94.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.49)[0.487,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.991,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 20:42:20 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 14:34:41 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 4/20/20 2:19 PM, Jacques Foucry wrote: > > Dear all, > >=20 > > According to this page (https://www.freshports.org/x11/terminator/), us= ing > > latest as pkg repo, I should be able to install 'terminator'. > >=20 > > But, > > ``` > > sudo pkg install terminator > > Password=A0: > > Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... > > FreeBSD repository is up to date. > > All repositories are up to date. > > Updating database digests format: 100% > > pkg: No packages available to install matching 'terminator' have been f= ound in the repositories > > ``` > >=20 > > pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > >=20 > > So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? >=20 > Nothing is wrong, this merely means that terminator is not built and=20 > hence is not distributed as package. There may be several reasons for=20 > that. I can think of some (without regard to any specific package: > [...] > 5. - I'm sure there may be a bunch of other reasons, hopefully some=20 > expert will add and/or correct me 6. The port does not allow binary distribution, i. e., it _has to_ be built from source ("licensing issue"). If I remember correctly, the "lame" MP3 encoder is (or was)=20 an example of such a port - you _had to_ build it from source as there was no package available for use with "pkg install". --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 01:18:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39942B55AD for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:18:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495m185qsFz4SgM for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:18:51 -0600 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495m185qsFz4SgM X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.12)[ip: (-0.34), ipnet: 65.112.0.0/12(-0.06), asn: 209(-0.13), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[42.55.121.65.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:18:53 -0000 On 20 Apr 2020, at 02:24, Ihor Antonov wrote: > But even in 10 years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11 Perhaps. A tiny percentage. The rest will continue as they are now, = avoiding X11 at all costs because it is insecure bloat that interferes = with the desired operation of the machine. FreeBSD doesn=E2=80=99t delude its users into thinking it is a = reasoanable desktop; linux does but it is a delusion. --=20 I WILL NOT SCREAM FOR ICE CREAM Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF03 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 01:21:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690C42B597B for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:21:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@list.199903.xyz) Received: from mail.postale.io (mail.postale.io [5.135.179.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.postale.io", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495m425mJpz4T0S for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip@list.199903.xyz) To: FreeBSD From: Philip Subject: freebsd with 5G network interface Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:21:11 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from localhost (Unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.postale.io (Haraka) with ESMTPSA id B96BC6CD-3855-442B-9838-EFDA0AC4737F.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:21:14 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; bh=GtcnyDdCcB74Yi6sj4TLAtSntHBzjeP9Qmbq+WNMU9s=; c=relaxed/simple; d=list.199903.xyz; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version; s=s20200415127; b=lBJueDZe9LlZGjC1kQcON3ZQRqoVm0BMJNmzWK9UfdLLO+5r8j+ed4dConiULRh7X6Wst3ntZTxhQ+MUUcKVaWLHd7u0aooxt7u6H55z1/e3+0LTK56Ub2RjM4tWCiXxYaSXFEn6YEF8bTUDC6+/2UlCR459wcOZP//XpAUBP4A= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495m425mJpz4T0S X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none (invalid DKIM record) header.d=list.199903.xyz header.s=s20200415127 header.b=lBJueDZe; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of philip@list.199903.xyz designates 5.135.179.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=philip@list.199903.xyz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.60)[-0.603,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[199903.xyz]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.89)[-0.893,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[list.199903.xyz:~]; R_DKIM_PERMFAIL(0.00)[list.199903.xyz:s=s20200415127]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(0.59)[ipnet: 5.135.0.0/16(0.92), asn: 16276(2.01), country: FR(0.00)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16276, ipnet:5.135.0.0/16, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 01:21:24 -0000 How to make freebsd support 5G network interface hardware? Thanks. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 04:49:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4602BE837 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 04:49:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495rh62w8Tz3G8H for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 04:49:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id n6so9175140ljg.12 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:49:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lRYyRf/vJ0TSpXhcGn7ySgdVDC/BNX1ii4RpJmbguHM=; b=qRVh+PlZJUyIgnC9IVGg8VeT64ZgH9GzDhtAhS+59TzAkCVutswxRfmqn0H9UYbnRG bkZmndSvFVD4WroITIaQW7Np0BBvNwcfRS5WUawTafvzUrTv00rpVjiInPrPtOe7E4gn PgaOfUHTgAzgzEl/bzeLXYcbjpwKoFpN+y1rLI3AAmgOjwZRl8DDSiO/uxFAedDObSOQ +VyVpxHiIs6OYnWAJtnQ2VFN3VBIRzGHrFGCXeLK1QKsk2j86epqFKAAGtyt/Irsp7f4 H5tnx/5sH306UWrESce3rtHmXy/55LlSmfF3dqqoHVUwi2neO6GooRdn5byo10g6xsBW x9EQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lRYyRf/vJ0TSpXhcGn7ySgdVDC/BNX1ii4RpJmbguHM=; b=CrwPS2JnQe7qh7lJUK3rqcpW/twJsm42T8dNUJT2T8HCW42RNwKiQO5qNg4cB+O4Np WfjOEbpLSynhBXcphHMr6gsQ9PCPlmqJAsATSB2bgHrxhA2SjC82dgOTMpbJOssKuoMb 16J8qZD0mFezVoXEzl8Jx3iikTl/Fr98CiSTJdeRgfOcl75ZhVZRVnxN3zZVKWH3JJTI mcMQUxNlTBMSsS27+4/y35Fsz9yrTJrUnpesTJsmwYpqsgSYrAIk6uFgj3RzTN2SmxoP UnLY50v2Ix2oNtN8v2YkcP5WYhAShMaXbTTdSMbQL0nlnJO5gNoF8G3A/SYh6NQfOl5F pWsg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZgjtSPceIVj97Zj1PNEJK1ZBb+v/+XDnCGSWwrGheFp7zhSXW+ Gg1wSfFF/qb9HJIwdMtifzjDDUP46Y7ukdeXMDE7nO0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIA0VWpuq6U7Film5+5UStk3dC0Zt3EE4R0nZY62gPl4fV1QTcFHLvNUPzoNjBEmhslE1aDm4H1RdEupg0qfNo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b8c7:: with SMTP id s7mr12342226ljp.212.1587444563333; Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:49:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clay Daniels Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2020 23:49:11 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd with 5G network interface To: Philip Cc: FreeBSD X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495rh62w8Tz3G8H X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qRVh+PlZ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of claydanielsjr@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=claydanielsjr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-9.32), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.34), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 04:49:27 -0000 Making sure you install IPv6 on install would be a good start. On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 8:21 PM Philip wrote: > How to make freebsd support 5G network interface hardware? > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 05:42:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F022C0917 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 05:42:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) Received: from admin.sibptus.ru (admin.sibptus.ru [IPv6:2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495srt5vWHz3K3P for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 05:42:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sibptus.ru; s=20181118; h=Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To; bh=G8R1aH9gCJ7z0dLqtijwVTCIH6KOiAEcbyLR3qCmzwk=; b=HqOE4WEr43ChzJqZENB7oo8DQx TtKWi15m1eEaEBGfr4RpbgT+rfnS4dn25FAz+E9LBZ+dZ74+FcwBBbrNE0POJ0NNY781cs5y3Okjy 1QCDcSes1Li1Wuz3DZ7q+/9d1lPh1yAWYArExF4RaGHi6PgtuAqJiileQlby2TZP5QtU=; Received: from vas by admin.sibptus.ru with local (Exim 4.93.0.4 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jQlfT-000Ppv-G7 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:41:59 +0700 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:41:59 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: ZFS used space (mis)calculation? Message-ID: <20200421054159.GA99203@admin.sibptus.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://admin.sibptus.ru/~vas/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495srt5vWHz3K3P X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=sibptus.ru header.s=20181118 header.b=HqOE4WEr; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=sibptus.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vas@sibptus.ru designates 2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vas@sibptus.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.36 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[sibptus.ru:s=20181118]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[sibptus.ru:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sibptus.ru,none]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5000::/38, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-3.26)[ip: (-9.89), ipnet: 2001:19f0:5000::/38(-4.94), asn: 20473(-1.40), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 05:42:07 -0000 --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues, How can it happen that the sum total of all space occupied by snapshots does not equal USEDSNAP? 130+21.4+20.2+19.8=3D191.4, not 219G. Where are my missing 150G ? Please look (a complete picture, nothing redacted): # zfs list -t all -o space NAME AVAIL USED USEDSNAP USEDDS = USEDREFRESERV USEDCHILD fastdrive 371G 784G 52K 23K = 0 784G fastdrive@2020-04-17_00.05.00--5d - 13K - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-17_12.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-18_00.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-18_12.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-19_00.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-19_12.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-20_00.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive@2020-04-20_12.05.00--5d - 0 - - = - - fastdrive/pg_data 371G 783G 219G 565G = 0 0 fastdrive/pg_data@2020-04-19_00.05.00--5d - 130G - - = - - fastdrive/pg_data@2020-04-19_12.05.00--5d - 21.4G - - = - - fastdrive/pg_data@2020-04-20_00.05.00--5d - 20.2G - - = - - fastdrive/pg_data@2020-04-20_12.05.00--5d - 19.8G - - = - - --=20 Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJenoenAAoJEA2k8lmbXsY0u8gIAJlsjJYEPC8jjrngDEbGtc4G a8TMSzW6kyy+mHHrVIREq9/sQMvC50RxRTaWKJceVjVi8uY/QoA9wtq8OhMkJW84 /X3bi4sp5r4OvIloj5Jos3RBT0kPyHq73TJ+N0MqlfaqclqtCC3Zu53O2TrtU7iX GPhIimK6j4v5y4OgEa52vOl7rTE+Ot+m58oq9CzX2OJQXLdhgUgfXMITPSsecMcK 0mRDoQ+iTLz26WOGFdw6WLl3uo0GOrUWkxjm9h3bH+HGeWzddaKA6ym5ty5WlIjP IuwkyeRVZm+7RIR5DlIzogBmNPD5gsc66fh4CrBeOsePuQENeYV3FAbmm9hQsW4= =j4v4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 06:33:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFF22C1BB6 for ; 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Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:33:15 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 02:33:14 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jQmT3-000B4b-9n for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:33:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:33:13 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200421073313.17e6f4350d3facfd728854e8@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495v013JrYz3Mpx X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=PAcmXSGV; 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ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100033083d4.e1cd5886834fd3270923a2bc483ab154@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:33:22 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:18:51 -0600 "@lbutlr" wrote: > FreeBSD doesn’t delude its users into thinking it is a reasoanable > desktop; linux does but it is a delusion. FreeBSD makes a better graphical workstation than Sun ever did, that's what I want of it. I would hate to lose that. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 06:59:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483B82C23A0 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailout.easydns.com (mailout.easydns.com [64.68.202.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495vZ91fgSz3P2Q for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10A0C1108 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easydns.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo12-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRWvrNjHXE0p for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hedeland.org (81-228-157-209-no289.tbcn.telia.com [81.228.157.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 87201C0F66 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03L6xP29073642 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:59:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420212018.7adfeb3713b143b243d83090@sohara.org> <20200420203102.GD2970@mithril.foucry.net> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: <0fdbc6f7-926b-fc63-709d-4caa0bd693da@hedeland.org> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:59:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200420203102.GD2970@mithril.foucry.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495vZ91fgSz3P2Q X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of per@hedeland.org has no SPF policy when checking 64.68.202.10) smtp.mailfrom=per@hedeland.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[209.157.228.81.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.27)[ip: (0.23), ipnet: 64.68.200.0/22(-0.13), asn: 16686(1.34), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.17)[0.170,0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.68)[0.682,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[10.202.68.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16686, ipnet:64.68.200.0/22, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:59:30 -0000 On 2020-04-20 22:31, Jacques Foucry wrote: > Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 21:20:18 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith crit: >> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 >> Jacques Foucry wrote: >> >>> Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 20:58:45 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith crit: >>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 >>>> Jacques Foucry wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. >>>>> >>>>> So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? >>>> >>>> These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. >>>> >>>> DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 >>>> EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 >>> >>> Hug& >>> >>> Don't find those lines on the Makefile in my port three: >>> Instaed, concerning python, I have those lines: >>> >>> USES= gnome python:3.5+ shebangfix >> >> looks like my ports tree needs an update :) > > :-) > > I made an update just befor compiling. :-) > >> >>> USE_GNOME= intltool pygobject3 vte3 >>> USE_PYTHON= autoplist distutils >>> >>> And it compile perfectly on my system >> >> Quarterly packages perhaps ? > > No, I use lastest: The port was un-deprecated only the day before you posted your message, see https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/terminator/Makefile?r1=532123&r2=532122&pathrev=532123 - I would guess there's some delay before such changes take effect for the package bulding. --Per Hedeland From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 07:13:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5CA2C2A3E for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:13:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from mail-01.thismonkey.com (mail-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thismonkey.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495vtT1SwTz3Pvy for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:13:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) X-TM-Via-MX: mail-01.thismonkey.com Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (utility-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6601:0:0:a01:120]) by mail-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03L7DKRe025941 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 03L7DKpM049294 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03L7DKtg049293 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000 From: Scott To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? Message-ID: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail-01.thismonkey.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495vtT1SwTz3Pvy X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=thismonkey.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com designates 2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[thismonkey.com,none]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10143, ipnet:2406:3400:300::/40, country:AU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.94)[ip: (-8.40), ipnet: 2406:3400:300::/40(-4.20), asn: 10143(2.88), country: AU(0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:13:38 -0000 Hi, mount ignores failed mount attempts when "failok" is specified as an option in /etc/fstab allowing the boot process to continue. However, fsck does not, and I think it should. It shouldn't mark an FS as clean, obviously, just not drop into single-user mode - let mount do that when it tries to mount an FS without the "failok" option. Thoughts? Scott From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 07:42:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50AE2C351D for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:42:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.localdomain (dontpanic.foucry.net [80.67.176.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495wWq39Jyz3wgM for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.foucry.net (mithril.foucry.net [127.0.0.1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id A082018C16 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:42:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:42:29 +0200 From: Jacques Foucry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Did I miss something? [inatalling terminator] Message-ID: <20200421074229.GF2970@mithril.foucry.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200420191935.GA73334@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420205845.a04c1ee6be848c01444e2d51@sohara.org> <20200420201234.GC2970@mithril.foucry.net> <20200420212018.7adfeb3713b143b243d83090@sohara.org> <20200420203102.GD2970@mithril.foucry.net> <0fdbc6f7-926b-fc63-709d-4caa0bd693da@hedeland.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0fdbc6f7-926b-fc63-709d-4caa0bd693da@hedeland.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 495wWq39Jyz3wgM X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=foucry.net (policy=none) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.57 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[foucry.net : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.995,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[mithril.localdomain]; HFILTER_HELO_NORES_A_OR_MX(0.30)[mithril.localdomain]; IP_SCORE(-0.97)[ipnet: 80.67.160.0/19(-2.72), asn: 20766(-2.14), country: FR(0.00)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:42:32 -0000 Le mardi 21 avr. 2020 à 08:59:25 (+0200), Per Hedeland à écrit: > On 2020-04-20 22:31, Jacques Foucry wrote: > > Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 21:20:18 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > >> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 22:12:34 +0200 > >> Jacques Foucry wrote: > >> > >>> Le lundi 20 avr. 2020 à 20:58:45 (+0100), Steve O'Hara-Smith à écrit: > >>>> On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:19:35 +0200 > >>>> Jacques Foucry wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> pkg search terminator did not give me any awswer. > >>>>> > >>>>> So, what's wrong? What' your thought about it? > >>>> > >>>> These lines in the port Makefile seem to be the reason. > >>>> > >>>> DEPRECATED= Old, uses EOLed python27 > >>>> EXPIRATION_DATE= 2020-02-28 > >>> > >>> Hug& > >>> > >>> Don't find those lines on the Makefile in my port three: > >>> Instaed, concerning python, I have those lines: > >>> > >>> USES= gnome python:3.5+ shebangfix > >> > >> looks like my ports tree needs an update :) > > > > :-) > > > > I made an update just befor compiling. :-) > > > >> > >>> USE_GNOME= intltool pygobject3 vte3 > >>> USE_PYTHON= autoplist distutils > >>> > >>> And it compile perfectly on my system > >> > >> Quarterly packages perhaps ? > > > > No, I use lastest: > > The port was un-deprecated only the day before you posted your > message, see > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11/terminator/Makefile?r1=532123&r2=532122&pathrev=532123 > - I would guess there's some delay before such changes take effect for > the package bulding. Ok, thanks for take time to digginگ into svn. Take care (all of you) -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 13:07:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA3C2CCF89 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4963lH2ymwz4Hs4 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MlNgz-1ixIdA2yaL-00lkDm; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:07:45 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:07:41 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "@lbutlr" Cc: FreeBSD Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200421150741.28dd6309.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Mv2rslgFwelT7vJo21gLO3l9HkRPzZFKqCwkPJuE4v4NZPXC1d+ +2FD8aXZs0xV4J51NpJP8EH6RuyUPmKiHecCV44yv+1wf3Lfp70ryPBw6ZmOVv65kzZUKZa li0XTQ3PPCpqZ2yhrpdVghpI4NQXeEB0SYs+TCCvdp+pmm4+XrTAL56x7vGRzC7EPXASL6m dBezao/EtcGrixFbfFe/g== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VUewuOs+LVY=:fr7IHe3vlm2CS4OzjopwSR 3iZTOI46mZuYWV/Zen12WVvRh+fT1bDeBHL6qdkCSRpXmaiqPYfYVLj7zhCAt/wHKfsNWFOcn On0R7IubME50Rm0U5kbrfzn86q605mIsmRhel9RlRg5+DJlaHgUatSCjy2+I0s+o5uIkhkldF oYHRE2ryMSpE37AJQoBuUzekVqpLYdv4gFig92OasgXEFolg8geFmckfub6+6neGma+BWj6KR jXcmVAKV9Z4ikY98Q8UzQu2OjCnVogf+K3zthi8LNznJVCixZKgT+Nh6hwoArQq2GDMfdk/lE 8FBRlgYMdrMa4ntpxljLYVgmX+vB+mxe+Ngm5b9/3/+7zNB2Ptd/Go2y3Ju2QsRioltCDcocy pfa12wy0bnguR7qYbVUTAKZq83jzxiPw1fQNXUPY8AipfuFNXs/rZr9DrEaZdZ8AlsGuTH9a6 DXetkTzHQl/lEa6PdawN7GX8VokoKUS1a386niLuHJB2llTEyEms8llohgJMoUs4PEi/WyFMj GgTDQJ6IPUclcETA02GTluzcR1e5L6FQo+C/VgKecOlyLigBYoya3soMfQ48zhFBsff1PFl09 LMv0DuP4au3+Dfe1u5hPLWiSKgCdt+FFTc8xjae66tlDNDmsb26Slhjf+CpHFgkjnTsXYSSyc K/msWkesTMZDKZhwgItyiJjr+BTnUSXA+6GBPGl5seuUCjxOoHuAvrVjd/M/ZUfvjxXa3AuLr maAJHyZKZKn5UxQgGhmsJHUFFRhEmpi66vg2bnHVi1GMoSL0eupVgPON5BSGNnana0t8yOQXB QCRZGVRg51HJWQfOTDhwFaMRpIMOrU9I+w/IcbzHYTxr3kjfoC9smOjaYcSJOGdqGV7/2al X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4963lH2ymwz4Hs4 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.27.222.94.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.889,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.49)[ip: (1.61), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.20), asn: 8560(2.08), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:07:56 -0000 On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:18:51 -0600, @lbutlr wrote: > On 20 Apr 2020, at 02:24, Ihor Antonov wrote: > > But even in 10 years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11 > > Perhaps. A tiny percentage. The rest will continue as they are now, > avoiding X11 at all costs because it is insecure bloat that > interferes with the desired operation of the machine. Depends. If Wayland can offer all features that X11 offers at the moment, there will probably be no major problem in transition. Being able to utilize 3D support and all the driver confusion is definitely a point to work on. > FreeBSD doesn’t delude its users into thinking it is a > reasoanable desktop; linux does but it is a delusion. No idea what I'm "obviously" doing wrong for decades... I'm using FreeBSD as a very reliable (!), convenient, modern, pleasant, do-not-interfere-with-my-intentions kind of desktop for probably 20 years, for regular desktop use, development, gaming, media, everything. Personally, I'm not missing _anything_ that's important to me; on the other side, Linux desktops do not offer this kind of reliability yet. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 13:16:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A882CD509 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from oceanview.tundraware.com (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailman.tundraware.com", Issuer "mailman.tundraware.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4963xN4k8jz4JSR for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:16:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ozzie.tundraware.com [75.145.138.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by oceanview.tundraware.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 03LDFKY9052359 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:15:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Subject: Re: More On FreeBSD Network Speed (Was: Changes To nat-ing Behaviour?) From: Tim Daneliuk To: FreeBSD Mailing List References: Message-ID: <8fb087fc-4548-ddbd-ba22-684678c58df8@tundraware.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:15:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:15:20 -0500 (CDT) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-TundraWare-MailScanner-ID: 03LDFKY9052359 X-TundraWare-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-TundraWare-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, timed out) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-From: tundra@tundraware.com X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4963xN4k8jz4JSR X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tundra@tundraware.com designates 45.55.60.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tundra@tundraware.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tundraware.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.930,0]; IP_SCORE(0.53)[ip: (-1.42), ipnet: 45.55.32.0/19(2.88), asn: 14061(1.24), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.90)[-0.905,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:45.55.32.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:16:41 -0000 On 4/20/20 3:00 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > Linux and FreeBSD have superframe MTUs of 9000 set MacOS MTU is set to 1500. For anyone else that may run into this: For reasons unclear to me, FreeBSD hated that the Linux box was forcing an MTU of 9000, even though FreeBSD had the same thing set. The fix was to tell Linux to use automatic MTU negotiation and all was well. Interestingly, when I did this, Linux decide 1500 was the right size and performance came back. Go figure... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk tundra@tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 13:32:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CBB2CDE29 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4964H74y80z4KdY for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M27Bp-1jOy7u2uHR-002ZQa; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:31:47 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:31:44 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Scott Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? Message-Id: <20200421153144.d45a889b.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> References: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/1/kdTYEM36BYMdG4TPFsoSq9lkSx7VN/FK6Zw5byJSP+XYOvBx 3qJQecPAX5oSLqUrQ14AxWnTdV/Oa6+ai7v0gz+W7tzgbNbfhjCGiL6ASCnCFgv5nhRiiYu nOGoqkpS3J4+HwiucEnzXcrVGySmbHRR/yCeE2BQNjjech03w66Wc84OGtAMBJ3n7tWpqq/ 70k5qD3o64cDwzfGfXj1Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:fb4CKuKLlS0=:J75m1LwBbLfPHXYLwbiM7k WWFBqcY/WfVbV4ihb2EYmA+digg5z3liGyOLetFyuOe9eCaKTadggnXQ1Tw/53lhlzXaN1hJB Euv0mU1vYQAcLaW2CpR6mQMCiz5D4wjI7MgEI/nkZwwYbXlHHeKnakFtN90Mr8gH8nAGJlSWO bvoEgz2eiIUxO9/lR6OztKivpVzCJzh90IHA3n790z3gDy3bvazollTRuin3RTLdmrelpH3zh yRB4Q2glzbnEz+xHC6kMCB/Wm1BeqOuPTSD2xFlQui+76v54wtrf8KuqZYxzVYGVO/LZ52lqk omN93WdeC78QuOvLqnfqPRlqoseV5QF0M30HVaVBpfOl0v5JZJS2uyS99jQJgXSR8JEcELR+C rBvupcQKhOMXN1/3ovIbGP1nMZ6S4gy+AtdTNNPeYo0Kde66rFdipD2wZhdK/Mnvu3Z88lhLf P6bJ2LLSszbXHq912Y3ii5yuBLlqzjQAC0NpfyFU7E0/DpydGg4d/QJ2LWqQ/gHUTq+iqDKEO sbIK1IkQ8ChXCgcdgGni00ADyjyp+LVITYT50eMNpHdHpl8vM4Bv1gE9wtEMUBfxXcEhapBVA kuEVF1Uzzn1fK4If85enwVx/zhPtAM48dXDJHTPr6NuqMNP+tta+LqSiCQjjNduRGsyhtd9HY C1k6uszkl5ghRBZ4MaKxwMQO+CokWgncAruqQVBxqFRsbcnuwe48P4faIgm9sSGR11E+IqbH7 LwF9VQASzkboBkPNUFx2WeLHQjA/n60UzwMrEO5Ex+8mxehYdiX/2TlWuPbSnSBKBDIwdLhb3 g0hjwceI7pUOPMdjR27mlmkErU0K+GkAauQNb4fhblThu4fZAFQB4pTQU5QrMyPsAlQxyRX X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4964H74y80z4KdY X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.133) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.62 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.27.222.94.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.92)[0.917,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[133.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.30)[ip: (0.64), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.20), asn: 8560(2.08), country: DE(-0.02)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:32:05 -0000 On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000, Scott wrote: > mount ignores failed mount attempts when "failok" is specified as an option > in /etc/fstab allowing the boot process to continue. > > However, fsck does not, and I think it should. It shouldn't mark an FS as > clean, obviously, just not drop into single-user mode - let mount do that > when it tries to mount an FS without the "failok" option. In my opinion, this sounds wrong. If a filesystem is damaged, it's generally a bad idea to boot from it or mount it, as it often leads to inconsistencies, strange errors, and other things definitely not desired. Background fsck doesn't really work. The file /etc/fstab is the filesystem table intended for use with mount; the fact that fsck uses it is just a nice side effect, but not its primary use. That's why the options field is intended for the mount command. >From "man 5 fstab": The fourth field, (fs_mntops), describes the mount options associated with the file system. This matches the behaviour intended with the "failok" option. It is intended for the mount program. Again from "man 5 fstab": If the option ``failok'' is specified, the system will ignore any error which happens during the mount of that filesystem, which would otherwise cause the system to drop into single user mode. This option is imple- mented by the mount(8) command and will not be passed to the kernel. Nothing here is related to fsck. The effect that the system drops into single-user mode is also intended. When fsck is invoked - upon filesystem error - it will automatically repair minor defects, and afterwards the system will continue booting. In case of major defects the system operator is expected to make decisions. It _might_ be possible that he does not want fsck to attempt any further repair, and instead relapse to other tools (data recovery, or restore from backup right away). Certain aspects of this behaviour can be controlled with the followint variables in /etc/rc.conf, for example: background_fsck="NO" # never! fsck_y_enable="YES" # always say "yes" fsck_y_flags="-f" # force fsck This will always force fsck to perform a full check and repair, and answer "yes" whenever needed, in case the initial preen ("minor defects repair mode") fails. The equivalent is: # fsck -y -f Keep in mind this is not always intended! That's why there is the single user mode, to allow a human decision. If you don't want fsck to stumble upon a damaged filesystem, do not include it in /etc/fstab. You can still use a custom rc.d-style script or an entry in /etc/rc.local if you wish to "maybe mount" non-vital or optional filesystems later on. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 13:54:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914062CE918 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:54:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from mail-01.thismonkey.com (mail-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thismonkey.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4964n16dqmz4M4w for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) X-TM-Via-MX: mail-01.thismonkey.com Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (utility-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6601:0:0:a01:120]) by mail-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03LDs7xp053164 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:54:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 03LDs7pg001793; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:54:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03LDs6gG001777; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:54:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:54:06 +1000 From: Scott To: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? Message-ID: <20200421135406.GA74559@thismonkey.com> Mail-Followup-To: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> <20200421153144.d45a889b.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200421153144.d45a889b.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail-01.thismonkey.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4964n16dqmz4M4w X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=thismonkey.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com designates 2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[thismonkey.com,none]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10143, ipnet:2406:3400:300::/40, country:AU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.86)[ip: (-8.13), ipnet: 2406:3400:300::/40(-4.06), asn: 10143(2.87), country: AU(0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:54:32 -0000 On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 03:31:44PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000, Scott wrote: > > mount ignores failed mount attempts when "failok" is specified as an option > > in /etc/fstab allowing the boot process to continue. > > > > However, fsck does not, and I think it should. It shouldn't mark an FS as > > clean, obviously, just not drop into single-user mode - let mount do that > > when it tries to mount an FS without the "failok" option. > > In my opinion, this sounds wrong. If a filesystem is damaged, > it's generally a bad idea to boot from it or mount it, as > it often leads to inconsistencies, strange errors, and other > things definitely not desired. Background fsck doesn't really I agree entirely. So on those filesystems you would not use `failok'. > work. The file /etc/fstab is the filesystem table intended > for use with mount; the fact that fsck uses it is just a nice > side effect, but not its primary use. That's why the options > field is intended for the mount command. True, but that doesn't preclude fsck's use of any hints it may glean from /etc/fstab. > The effect that the system drops into single-user mode is > also intended. When fsck is invoked - upon filesystem error - Sure, but the point of `failok' is to continue booting even if the so optioned filesystem cannot mount for whatever reason. Unfortunately fsck makes no use of this indication and prevents booting. These two commands, fsck and mount need to work in tandem. > Keep in mind this is not always intended! That's why > there is the single user mode, to allow a human decision. Yes, again you would not specify `failok' if you wanted to stop booting for human intervention. > > If you don't want fsck to stumble upon a damaged filesystem, > do not include it in /etc/fstab. You can still use a custom > rc.d-style script or an entry in /etc/rc.local if you wish > to "maybe mount" non-vital or optional filesystems later on. Sure, but why would you want to do it that way? The same could be said when the `failok' option was not available to mount. Consider the situation where a device specified in /etc/fstab is not present during boot, say a USB stick. You've added the `failok' option to its /etc/fstab entry, declaring that if you can't mount the device, ignore the error and continue. fsck will still drop into single user mode. Does that make sense? Thanks for your response, Scott From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 14:09:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B9B2CEE4B for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:09:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49656r71WRz4Mp2 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:09:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MTiDV-1jo9dI1yMn-00U0XR; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:09:41 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:09:39 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Scott Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? 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The file /etc/fstab is the filesystem table intended > > for use with mount; the fact that fsck uses it is just a nice > > side effect, but not its primary use. That's why the options > > field is intended for the mount command. > > True, but that doesn't preclude fsck's use of any hints it may glean from > /etc/fstab. The 6th field of /etc/fstab, the "fsck column", is intnded to be used by fsck, as per the manual, but of course this does not say anything about "what to do in case of problems". > > The effect that the system drops into single-user mode is > > also intended. When fsck is invoked - upon filesystem error - > > Sure, but the point of `failok' is to continue booting even if the so > optioned filesystem cannot mount for whatever reason. Unfortunately fsck > makes no use of this indication and prevents booting. These two commands, > fsck and mount need to work in tandem. Yes, that is correct. However, it looks like "noauto" is basically what you're searching for. During the boot process, specific filesystems are gathered from /etc/fstab, and their consistency is tested before mounting, afterwards they are mounted. Later mounting and manual mounting is possible too, even with filesystems specified in /etc/fstab, but with the "noauto" mount option - in this case, fsck won't even look at them, except mount itself could complain ("so-and-so was not properly dismounted"). So the consensus seems to be: If you don't want fsck to look at a filesystem and maybe stop the boot process, use "noauto". If you want it to be mounted later on, do so manually (with of of the methods I mentioned, or entirely interactively). > > If you don't want fsck to stumble upon a damaged filesystem, > > do not include it in /etc/fstab. You can still use a custom > > rc.d-style script or an entry in /etc/rc.local if you wish > > to "maybe mount" non-vital or optional filesystems later on. > > Sure, but why would you want to do it that way? The same could be said when > the `failok' option was not available to mount. Right, this approach does not even require "failok". > Consider the situation where a device specified in /etc/fstab is not present > during boot, say a USB stick. You've added the `failok' option to its > /etc/fstab entry, declaring that if you can't mount the device, ignore the > error and continue. fsck will still drop into single user mode. Does that > make sense? Yes, because the entry in /etc/fstab says the device is _required_ during the boot process - any non-"noauto" entry is to be checked and mounted during system boot. The opposite of "noauto" is "auto", and it is the default - meaning, according to the manual: "to be automatically mounted at system startup". So any of such entries is considered "required for booting". I think you're expecting "failok" to do something it is not intended to do. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 14:30:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11DC2CF3F7 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:30:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4965ZR4vPPz4NYq for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:30:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1587479424; x=1590071424; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=R5Lpz8EoeVmmt0el9ckWI0gMoVhywKSRVuYDiVEtDzg=; b=YxRDY9vIBVLtHD/ajenWz+i9HppKseBazrRSJAIxVF5069z4b9Ozc9Ridod3jd79UhlJmVZuvClqkCujgeAe7ZHiCVwd7HiLw6k24LA7D5YrI4DkEgYqeLYpD9gqxZZj6RkLPlGT/305WohSlYVBHXO0USGaVqExaOd6ldMJyoo= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDMzYzQ4YjIuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.2]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:30:16 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:30:15 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jQtuf-000Ccm-Uh; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:30:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:30:13 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Polytropon Cc: "@lbutlr" , FreeBSD Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200421153013.640ea96596f03973cb7cbc16@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200421150741.28dd6309.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200421150741.28dd6309.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4965ZR4vPPz4NYq X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=YxRDY9vI; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.23), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.32), asn: 7381(0.12), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100033c48b2.f511693fdf38a1756569a371c1354497@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:30:24 -0000 On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:07:41 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 19:18:51 -0600, @lbutlr wrote: > > On 20 Apr 2020, at 02:24, Ihor Antonov wrote: > > > But even in 10 years FreeBSD hackers will keep using rotting X11 > > > > Perhaps. A tiny percentage. The rest will continue as they are now, > > avoiding X11 at all costs because it is insecure bloat that > > interferes with the desired operation of the machine. > > Depends. If Wayland can offer all features that X11 offers at > the moment, Wayland is not network transparent which has always been the major advantage (and disadvantage) of X11 over everything else. > there will probably be no major problem in transition. > Being able to utilize 3D support and all the driver confusion > is definitely a point to work on. The only thing is that Wayland uses the same troublesome DRI/DRM infrastructure as X11. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 14:33:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55C52CF74F for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:33:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from mail-01.thismonkey.com (mail-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thismonkey.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4965fB3KbLz4P35 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:33:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) X-TM-Via-MX: mail-01.thismonkey.com Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (utility-01.thismonkey.com [IPv6:2406:3400:35e:6601:0:0:a01:120]) by mail-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03LEXMch055913 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:33:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: from utility-01.thismonkey.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 03LEXMbo067341; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:33:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Received: (from root@localhost) by utility-01.thismonkey.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 03LEXLgP067329; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:33:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:33:21 +1000 From: Scott To: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? Message-ID: <20200421143321.GA33168@thismonkey.com> Mail-Followup-To: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> <20200421153144.d45a889b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200421135406.GA74559@thismonkey.com> <20200421160939.aa2fbd89.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200421160939.aa2fbd89.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.11.4 (2019-03-13) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.102.2 at mail-01.thismonkey.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4965fB3KbLz4P35 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=thismonkey.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com designates 2406:3400:35e:6602::a01:232 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-lists-5@thismonkey.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[thismonkey.com,none]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10143, ipnet:2406:3400:300::/40, country:AU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.78)[ip: (-7.86), ipnet: 2406:3400:300::/40(-3.93), asn: 10143(2.85), country: AU(0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:33:41 -0000 On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 04:09:39PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:54:06 +1000, Scott wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 03:31:44PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:13:20 +1000, Scott wrote: > > > work. The file /etc/fstab is the filesystem table intended > > > for use with mount; the fact that fsck uses it is just a nice > > > side effect, but not its primary use. That's why the options > > > field is intended for the mount command. > > > > True, but that doesn't preclude fsck's use of any hints it may glean from > > /etc/fstab. > > The 6th field of /etc/fstab, the "fsck column", is intnded > to be used by fsck, as per the manual, but of course this > does not say anything about "what to do in case of problems". > > > > > > The effect that the system drops into single-user mode is > > > also intended. When fsck is invoked - upon filesystem error - > > > > Sure, but the point of `failok' is to continue booting even if the so > > optioned filesystem cannot mount for whatever reason. Unfortunately fsck > > makes no use of this indication and prevents booting. These two commands, > > fsck and mount need to work in tandem. > > Yes, that is correct. However, it looks like "noauto" is > basically what you're searching for. During the boot process, > specific filesystems are gathered from /etc/fstab, and their > consistency is tested before mounting, afterwards they are > mounted. Later mounting and manual mounting is possible too, > even with filesystems specified in /etc/fstab, but with the > "noauto" mount option - in this case, fsck won't even look > at them, except mount itself could complain ("so-and-so was > not properly dismounted"). So you've established that fsck parses the fs_mntops column for advice, which is great. Why not just make it recognise the `failok' option? > > So the consensus seems to be: If you don't want fsck to look > at a filesystem and maybe stop the boot process, use "noauto". > If you want it to be mounted later on, do so manually (with > of of the methods I mentioned, or entirely interactively). Yes but I DO want fsck to look at the filesystem, but continue if it fails (for example, if the device does not exist). Just like I DO want mount to mount the filesystem, but continue if it can't. > > > > If you don't want fsck to stumble upon a damaged filesystem, > > > do not include it in /etc/fstab. You can still use a custom > > > rc.d-style script or an entry in /etc/rc.local if you wish > > > to "maybe mount" non-vital or optional filesystems later on. > > > > Sure, but why would you want to do it that way? The same could be said when > > the `failok' option was not available to mount. > > Right, this approach does not even require "failok". > > > > Consider the situation where a device specified in /etc/fstab is not present > > during boot, say a USB stick. You've added the `failok' option to its > > /etc/fstab entry, declaring that if you can't mount the device, ignore the > > error and continue. fsck will still drop into single user mode. Does that > > make sense? > > Yes, because the entry in /etc/fstab says the device is _required_ > during the boot process - any non-"noauto" entry is to be checked > and mounted during system boot. The opposite of "noauto" is "auto", > and it is the default - meaning, according to the manual: "to be > automatically mounted at system startup". So any of such entries > is considered "required for booting". That's not completely true, because for NFS mounts we have the `bg' option, which allows the system to continue booting even if it can't be mounted. i.e.: not all `noauto' filesystems are _required_. > I think you're expecting "failok" to do something it is not > intended to do. > Not really. I want `failok' to do something it doesn't currently. Where would be the harm in patching fsck to recognise it? Given the resistance perhaps I should be pushing for fsck to continue on a non-existent device (really, how does a missing device fail a consistency check?). Then mount will presumably fail if the `failok' is not present. Scott From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 21 15:03:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6222A82FA for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:03:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4966Jg1gnFz4QpG for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:03:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.27.149]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MgNQd-1ijKo80nip-00hwjC; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:03:15 +0200 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:03:13 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Scott Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Should fsck honour "failok" in fstab as mount does? Message-Id: <20200421170313.16d4235e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200421143321.GA33168@thismonkey.com> References: <20200421071319.GA98163@thismonkey.com> <20200421153144.d45a889b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200421135406.GA74559@thismonkey.com> <20200421160939.aa2fbd89.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200421143321.GA33168@thismonkey.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+vhoCqoptar0QpsPfqajV5eskPZEhsji/focPPymG5FG7XwgSeS DkOF5dT/4GPfKhTQ/zulx3NnWsnwpdHAX87gLlpZfs97BnPdtOg1