Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:50:54 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer <julian@elischer.org> To: Scott Long <scottl@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD current users <current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: SF Bay area hackfest Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0403232348570.35223-100000@InterJet.elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <20040324002624.T55727@pooker.samsco.home>
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On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Scott Long wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Scott Long wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Daniel Eischen wrote: > > > > > > > > For the KSE bits, we've already said a few times that we're > > > > ready to go but are waiting for a toolchain upgrade that > > > > supports TLS. > > > > > > > > > going to enforce. I don't want 5.3 to go out with hap-hazard and/or > > > > > unfinished TLS support. SO let me start the list, and I'll let you and > > > > > others add to it. If we can't get through this step, then there is > > > > > absolutely no way that we can expect to get this done for 5.3. And for > > > > > the record, I would really, really like to see this done for 5.3. > > > > > > > > I don't quite understand why you need commitments for a toolchain > > > > upgrade. From what I understand, TLS support can't happen without > > > > it, and by deferring the toolchain update you prevent it from > > > > getting done. But I'll play along regardless... > > > > > > Operating without a plan or commitments leads us back to 2002 with KSE. > > > If TLS needs a new binutils, then we need to figure out who is going to > > > provide that. If no one is going to provide it, then the rest is futile, > > > no? > > > > Right, but the prerequisite for TLS is a new toolchain, not the > > other way around; you don't need TLS support in non-toolchain > > components to update the toolchain. Once the toolchain supports > > TLS, support for it can be added at any time, regardless of whether > > or not it is before or after 5.3. And yes, we (thread-guys) would > > like to support it for 5.3 and have said so for quite some time. > > We've already rearranged our per-{thread,KSE} storage to allow for > > it. > > Maybe something got misunderstood, then. My intention was to create > a list of tasks that need to be done in order to reach the final goal of > having TLS work. New binutils is one of those tasks. I also wanted to > stress that each task needs an owner, otherwise it won't get done. Don't > make me pull out MSProject and do this in a Ven diagram =-) > > > > > > > > > What happens when the compiler, toolchain, etc, etc, are all updated to > > > make TLS work, but the user libmaps C_R in? Does stuff blow up? I'm ok > > > with C_R not explicitely supporting it so long as it doesn't create new > > > failure cases. > > > > I guess stuff blows up, probably very similar to what already > > happens when someone tries to use nvidia drivers/openGL with > > libpthread or libthr. But as far as I know, nothing we have > > is currently built to use it (it probably can't be because > > our released toolchain first needs to support it). > > > > This isn't terribly desirable since C_R is going to be the fallback thread > package for 5.x. Is there any way for C_R to detect when it's in a > position to blow up and/or give an intelligent message to the user? The linker could almost DEFINITLY do this # myprog ld.so: "You are tring to link libc_r to a program using TLS. Use libpthread" # > > > Scott >
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