From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 19 18:27:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05DE6BB1 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:27:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [192.99.32.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABFF2DD1 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:27:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DDF75EC3; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:18:33 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tds-solutions.net Received: from tds-solutions.net ([127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LVSS-W6w4s6D; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (host-184-166-24-185.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net [184.166.24.185]) (Authenticated sender: sorressean) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1C2975E77; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:18:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <54946BF6.7000900@tysdomain.com> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 13:18:30 -0500 From: "Littlefield, Tyler" Reply-To: tyler@tysdomain.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?ZnJhbsOnYWkgcw==?= , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [OFF-TOPIC] A real programmer would not stoop to wasting machine capacity to do the assembly as said Richard Hamming? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 18:27:55 -0000 On 12/19/2014 9:21 AM, françai s wrote: > Is true that a real programmer would not stoop to wasting machine capacity > to do the assembly? Is true that a real troll wouldn't stoop to waste bandwidth but to do the real work? 2014-12-19 11:52 GMT-02:00 françai s : >> [quote="http://worrydream.com/dbx/"] >> Reactions to SOAP and Fortran >> Richard Hamming -- The Art of Doing Science and Engineering, p25 (pdf book) >> >> In the beginning we programmed in absolute binary... Finally, a Symbolic >> Assembly Program was devised -- after more years than you are apt to >> believe during which most programmers continued their heroic absolute >> binary programming. At the time [the assembler] first appeared I would >> guess about 1% of the older programmers were interested in it -- using >> [assembly] was "sissy stuff", and a real programmer would not stoop to >> wasting machine capacity to do the assembly. >> >> Yes! Programmers wanted no part of it, though when pressed they had to >> admit their old methods used more machine time in locating and fixing up >> errors than the [assembler] ever used. One of the main complaints was when >> using a symbolic system you do not know where anything was in storage -- >> though in the early days we supplied a mapping of symbolic to actual >> storage, and believe it or not they later lovingly pored over such sheets >> rather than realize they did not need to know that information if they >> stuck to operating within the system -- no! When correcting errors they >> preferred to do it in absolute binary. >> >> FORTRAN was proposed by Backus and friends, and again was opposed by >> almost all programmers. First, it was said it could not be done. Second, if >> it could be done, it would be too wasteful of machine time and capacity. >> Third, even if it did work, no respectable programmer would use it -- it >> was only for sissies! >> >> >> John von Neumann's reaction to assembly language and Fortran >> John A.N. Lee, Virginia Polytechnical Institute >> >> John von Neumann, when he first heard about FORTRAN in 1954, was >> unimpressed and asked "why would you want more than machine language?" One >> of von Neumann's students at Princeton recalled that graduate students were >> being used to hand assemble programs into binary for their early machine. >> This student took time out to build an assembler, but when von Neumann >> found out about it he was very angry, saying that it was a waste of a >> valuable scientific computing instrument to use it to do clerical >> work.[/quote] >> >> If is true that a real programmer would not stoop to wasting machine >> capacity to do the assembly, is an unfortunate fact the real programmers do >> use to wasting machine capacity to do the assembly, compilers... >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.