Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2019 12:06:06 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@leidinger.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) Message-ID: <20190105120606.Horde.uAUbjCtZfZHG93S2hfmiOCc@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <79545.1546641751@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <201901042219.x04MJf4w085379@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <79545.1546641751@critter.freebsd.dk>
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This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_kZtWaaHv-qieQ_qOSjchbs3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> (from Fri, 04 Jan 2019=20=20 22:42:31=20+0000): > -------- > In message <201901042219.x04MJf4w085379@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>,=20=20 >=20"Rodney W. Grimes" writes: > >>> ... and RPi's, access-points, NAS devices, routers, televisions,=20=20 >>>=20photocopiers, >>> sewage-treatment-plant-monitoring, high-voltage-switching, >>> stock-trading, air-traffic-control, scientific super-computing, >>> antiproliferation-monitoring, laptops, desktops and ... >> >> As far as I am concerned Linux can have the datacenter... >> I find this list much more interesting :-) > > Me too. > > Data-centers are booooring! Which means that x developers with commit bits in FreeBSD are free to=20=20 develop=20whatever they want. This does not mean that all users of FreeBSD agree. This does not mean that all developers with commit bits in FreeBSD agree. Do you want to limit what y developers with commit bits in FreeBSD are=20= =20 working=20on? From what I hear here I get the impression that there are people=20=20 which=20want to limit that y developers want to explore the benefits of=20= =20 feature=20A. Nobody told so war we have to import anything into base=20=20 yet.=20The initial request was to get an idea about opinions. Nobody=20=20 told=20we have to rewrite the kernel in rust, there were infos that=20=20 there=20may be benefit in having parts of it in rust, which can be=20=20 explored=20e.g. in ports. Nobody asked to replace a critical boot time=20= =20 component.=20As we are not a company were the people are paid to work on=20= =20 specific=20items (yes, there are people paid to work in parts, please=20=20 forgive=20me that I don't count them here... we don't talk about them=20=20 doing=20this work), we can not really tell that this takes away=20=20 development=20resources away from other work (those developers may not=20= =20 work=20on something else, or they may work on something which is not=20=20 "strategic"). And=20if you really think that containers (in whatever color...=20=20 kubernetes,=20docker, "jails" or whatever) are only datacenter tools...=20= =20 well...=20have again a look at NAS devices, laptops, and desktop systems=20= =20 (and=20whatever). I don't have a datacenter at home, but I use a lot of containers at=20=20 home.=20I use them in the "jail"-color (every service his own jail, I=20=20 even=20have a desktop-setup-in-a-jail...). I don't use them as is, I use=20= =20 tools.=20ezjail, iocage, whatever color you want. Would openstack be=20=20 overkill=20here? Maybe. Maybe not. Would I give it a try if we would=20=20 have=20openstack in ports in my basement? Yes I would -- why should I=20=20 limit=20myself to linux to have a look at openstack/kubernetes/docker...=20= =20 we=20have the infrastructure to make it possible (I let it up to you to=20= =20 decide=20if we have a better infrastructure/base for this or not). I expect in the long run virtualisation and containers arrive in a lot=20= =20 of=20places, even in those you have listed above as not boring. There=20=20 are=20benefits in the upgrade path, there are benefits in handling=20=20 dependencies=20(compared to an one box does everything), there are=20=20 benefits=20in the security area (yes, we have capsicum which addresses=20= =20 some=20aspects, but not all as if each part runs in it's own jail). FreeBSD comes from the "power to serve" area. You can off course tell=20=20 that=20access-points, NAS devices (which also exist in datacenters...)=20= =20 and=20routers are "serving", but datacenters are the traditional area of=20= =20 "the=20power to serve". Basically if you tell that datacenters are=20=20 boring,=20you tell that we shall turn around and that e.g. the CDN of=20=20 Netflix=20is not the area we want to target (I would not agree that this=20= =20 CDN=20is some sort of NAS, for me this is more like a=20=20 web-/ftp-/<protocol_of_the_day>-server,=20so something which resides=20=20 traditionally=20in a datacenter). Bye, Alexander. --=20 http://www.Leidinger.net=20Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_kZtWaaHv-qieQ_qOSjchbs3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale PGP-Signatur Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAABAgAGBQJcMI+eAAoJEBINsJsD+NiGit8QAJg+cJTn87USUq3cGxCHXd1m IbJ8vKIZiAWuK5vsWBLHVvB/mI1WyMfjJZLjR9s2/IOvfL661vzddA9PjMcQB+H+ uaKBgrmSY3JxAGwwfG/iAj3/L/9DwcSwWxBQTFNcnefS3TcdxO91D2br41IYNbSP j1h0yApWJJGKYsf31VpsOIbmKiymMDJSGo9oIusLURp5gvF8k8K2rq8WjX/wEmpp OHRqJe3j7UyThKVHlqiwtyWv4hCvKdDQPuVISX/abjNPiK+FYoE2rCEPlz2ZrNFu e6Zvt681h+2r9YthypLgmGWe24ccuut4SGw6YykNyoQ5xhe2qma7sgDHAR+2Hd47 2Cns69AZV20D5a1OF/O1VVaHzPXoWwuPaEtP6AJzjGIfj/xoAOzbXcHKo9K/a8qq ZEh1wv/y/C9V3eNPCKRASPKQIh4Zhqe5xh1zDD4I/8NTo9xtuaHPTPAw3lRlep+w YS4lmW8stns49dJLRfPAd1GXHQuEGUqXNNmuTxN0UgJuk/te6zy5FVuO1InJAZCK LVk8lrDYe7K5P3LKCL6JdI07GzcZChELHP2zcpAXqldWFglrFfQd3UpvvYLAAwe2 CpcST+zVHOT4/nyf4KLyud7ahvR14nKLfmCpG9HiwWIe0SEocneMKOTTPQco7RuW 94+tDnJDh95MrMsTJDps =Dmpe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_kZtWaaHv-qieQ_qOSjchbs3--
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