From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 21 05:39:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF487106566B for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419418FC08 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q0L5d9lb010996; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:09 GMT Received: from orange.esperance-linux.co.uk (host-92-22-155-163.as13285.net [92.22.155.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q0L5d8YZ010985; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:08 GMT Received: by orange.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 243DE33C52; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:08 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:08 +0000 From: "'Frank Shute'" To: Devin Teske Message-ID: <20120121053908.GA8988@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: <4EFDA3B50040906E@> <20120119164234.GB21488@hemlock.hydra> <04db01ccd6df$a6ebe3f0$f4c3abd0$@fisglobal.com> <20120119200106.GB88862@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> <04ff01ccd6fa$ca9a4e20$5fceea60$@fisglobal.com> <20120120005142.GC88862@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> <051e01ccd713$2b18ae50$814a0af0$@fisglobal.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <051e01ccd713$2b18ae50$814a0af0$@fisglobal.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE amd64 X-Organisation: 'shute.org.uk' Cc: 'Chad Perrin' , 'Dave Robison' , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 9 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 05:39:18 -0000 --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 05:31:00PM -0800, Devin Teske wrote: > >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- From: 'Frank Shute' > > [mailto:frank@shute.org.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:52 > > PM To: Devin Teske Cc: 'Chad Perrin'; > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Dave Robison Subject: Re: FreeBSD 9 > >=20 > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 02:36:29PM -0800, Devin Teske wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe the "difficulty in maintenance" stems primarily > > > > > from the fact that the existing partition editor MAY have to > > > > > be entirely rewritten to accommodate other root filesystem > > > > > types (but even that's not entirely true -- if done right). > > > > > > > > > > Other than that, it's most likely just FUD and misperception > > > > > that sysinstall(8) is either (a) hard to maintain or (b) > > > > > hard to extend. -- Devin > > > > > > > > To quote the manpage for sysinstall: > > > > > > > > BUGS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This utility is a prototype which lasted several years > > > > past its expira- tion date and is greatly in need of > > > > death. > > > > > > > > There are a (great) number of undocumented variables. > > > > UTSL. > > > > > > > > > > Perspective. > > > > > > Let's take a look at the commit history for this manual. > >=20 > > Let's not. Let us discuss the merit of what the manpage says. > >=20 > > "There are a (great) number of undocumented variables." > >=20 > > From my reading of postings to this list and stable@, >=20 > yet not -sysinstall@ (?!) Didn't know it existed until now! >=20 > > it was felt that sysinstall couldn't be extended without a total > > re-write, that seems to suggest that the manpage is right and is > > not FUD. > >=20 >=20 > I disagree. Just because you document something doesn't make it > true. >=20 > I've already discussed the fact that the first line you quoted ("in > need of death") is 15+ years old and we have no way of tracking its > origin and thus can't extrapolate why on-Earth it was put into a > "release-quality product" in the first place. >=20 > The second line you quote (which was added 2 years 10 months ago via > SVN r189754 by grog@) has everything to do with highlighting the > fact that sysinstall(8) is highly scriptable through a large number > of under-documented dispatch keywords and nothing to do with the > "total re-write" issue you're discussing. >=20 > Plus, the keywords are a lot more documented than you think. If a > dispatch word is not documented, there's probably good cause (a > great number of the dispatch keywords are meant for internal use > only and their documentation would merely invite strangeness only > reserved for people that know what they're doing -- i.e. they can > read the code to learn what their function is). >=20 > However, I will concede to the fact that the number of dispatch > keywords that are documented versus ones that CAN be used is only > about 33%. >=20 > Here's how I generated that number... >=20 > awk '/VAR_/{sub(/[^"]*"/,"");sub(/"$/,"");print}' > /usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/sysinstall.h | sh -c 'while read var;do > zgrep -q "\<$var\>" /usr/share/man/man8/sysinstall.8.gz && > varcount=3D$((${varcount:-0}+1));done;echo $varcount' >=20 > This returns the number of variables -- as-defined-as a dispatch > keyword in sysinstall.h -- are present in the manual. >=20 > In 9.0-RELEASE, it returns "33" for me. >=20 > In contrast with the number of dispatch keywords, obtainable by: >=20 > awk '/VAR_/{print}' | wc -l >=20 > which returns 105 for me ... minus the "markedly internal keywords" > which begin with "_"... >=20 > awk '/VAR_/{print}' | grep -vc '"_' >=20 > We see 101 supposedly-usable dispatch keywords which brings us to > about 33% documentation. >=20 > However, I will re-iterate... >=20 > The first quote you pulled from the man-page was made 15+ years ago, > the second quote you pulled was from 2+ years ago and the two are > not related. The first declares some inferred quality about the code > itself and the second simply states that the variable keywords are > under-documented. One not-necessarily imply the other or vice-versa. > -- Devin >=20 Devin, damn you with your logic, sensible arguments & *statistics*....[spit] ;) You've obviously got more invested in sysinstall than I have. It was always a thing that I just muddled through to get a minimal system up & running. But if you're using the scripting interface then I can see that you would want something of equivalent functionality in the replacement, bsdinstall. Regards, --=20 Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk8aT3sACgkQHduKvUAgeK5PiQCfRtSCHqCz/sYE/MJDWLtL8yme ULUAni8EoEwiceYvsyZnfqvtamM/6Q71 =PfD6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8--