From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 8 20:29:10 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EDC781 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:29:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11ADC2E6F for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:29:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=jhVCqOCcONDhIh1w2GEjcBn40ITekX4NlKMVE0oiDkw= c=1 sm=1 a=QrugwKR0C_UA:10 a=wAGQQ9Az6v0A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ICAaq7hcmGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IbtKDeXwb2+SRU442/pi3A==:17 a=ZmIiC_jQAAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=mauELU6HDDKesXaICrUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=PXSvYFfLtboA:10 a=V7tsTZBp22UA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO spqr.komquats.com) ([96.50.7.119]) by idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2013 14:29:09 -0600 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F291357; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r98KT6MQ058038; Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Message-Id: <201310082029.r98KT6MQ058038@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.5 From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: rcs In-Reply-To: Message from Alfred Perlstein of "Tue, 08 Oct 2013 08:20:22 -0700." <525422B6.9040906@mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:29:06 -0700 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Cy Schubert List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2013 20:29:10 -0000 In message <525422B6.9040906@mu.org>, Alfred Perlstein writes: > On 10/8/13 8:04 AM, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > >>> I think the fact is that most direct users of RCS use it in a very > >>> simple way, and > >>> it works just fine for that. with no real need for any updates or any > >>> change. > >> With all due respect Julian, The more we discuss this more this really > >> points to the problem that FreeBSD appears to be a challenge to install > >> packages into such that a package moving out of base is such a big deal. > >> > >> Can we fix that instead? > >> > >> I mean, this change should really not be a big deal, but yet it is and > >> this speaks to the core of FreeBSD utility. > > Not commenting on RCS here, but on the concept of moving packages out > > of the base: > > > > - For some of us, the attraction of FreeBSD is that it is a tightly > > integrated system, and the base contains enough useful functionality > > that we don't *have* to add a lot of packages. > > > > - Each package that is moved out of the base system means less useful > > functionality in the base system - and for me: Less reason to use > > FreeBSD instead of Linux. > > > > I absolutely see the problem of maintaining out-of-date packages in > > the base system, and the desirability of making the base system less > > reliant on GPL. I'm mostly troubled by the fact that there seems to > > be a rather strong tendency the last few years of having steadily > > less functionality in the base system - and I'm not at all convinced > > that the right balance has been found here. > > > > This discussion is not new, and I don't expect to convince any new > > persons... > > > > > I'm sure other devs will disagree, but with ~15 years of FreeBSD > experience and ~13 years as a dev, my very strong opinion is that this > tightly coupled system is actually a boat anchor sinking us. > > Just because no one else does it a certain way, does not mean that a > unique way of doing something is correct and/or sustainable. Maybe in > 1995, 1999, or 2005 even, but not today. Especially in the context of > add-on tools like rcs. > > What we need to discuss is lowering the bar to making custom installs. > > I personally find that installing FreeBSD is useless until I install > "screen, zsh, vim-lite, git" why is that so manual for me? Why can't I > just register a package set somewhere so that all I have to type in is > "alfred.perlstein.devel" into a box during the installer and I get all > my packages by default? A Red Hat-like kickstart or Solaris jumpstart possibly? -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org