From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Apr 24 13:46:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 266732B553C for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:46:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 497wSv3Bqrz4NQy for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:46:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.139.75]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4377D4E61B for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:40:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <5e46ccef-3cce-7769-bbd0-167eee6f01fc@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:40:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 497wSv3Bqrz4NQy X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[75.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[75.139.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.10)[ip: (0.28), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.14), asn: 160(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:46:56 -0000 On 4/24/20 4:57 AM, Shamim Shahriar wrote: > On 24/04/2020 01:09, 令狐月弦 wrote: >> I am on freebsd list but I do like freebsd :) due to it is more light >> and stable than others, as server running environment. freebsd is may >> not as good as linux for desktop environment IMO. >> > disclaimer: > this is not a personal response to any particular message. I am merely > responding to a pattern or generic typical statement. Mostly in line of > "this is better than that" or "FreeBSD is rubbish as desktop > environment" or "I have no idea what I am talking about and am very > proud of it". You have been warned! > > > now, for the main response > > and Linux is not as good as MS Windows > and Windows is not as good as MacOS > and MacOS is not as good as . . . > > You can continue the way you prefer. I had been using FreeBSD as my > primary desktop/laptop environment for many many years now -- with many > ups and downs, but with much better success than people are led to > believe. There are times when I need to resort to other OS based system > primarily because people keep on pushing me to sites/items that I > personally neither need nor want (Flash, for example) -- but friends and > enemies are very keen on being the most tech savvy modern "dude" . . . > (you get the picture). > > At work I use both MacOS and Windows. When it comes to security, guess > which OS I tend to turn to. > > Anyway, in my own personal opinion, the inherent problem of the > statement above (and anything similar) is, people seem to confuse Linux > with desktop environment -- which it is not! Linux is nothing but just > the kernel. It is not even the base system -- let alone the userland! > > People can complain that KDE does not work on particular hardware, or X > does not like certain graphics card. That has nothing to do with > FreeBSD. Anything and everything outside the base system are the fruit > of the hard labour by people trying to adopt things that were created > for some other system. The fruit will be mostly sweet, sometimes sour, > and that is how it should be going forward (IMHO). That is what the > Ports are offering -- take it or leave it, or alternatively help make it > better (testing, reporting issues, contributing to codes, donations -- > many different options to suit most people). FreeBSD is NOT Linux -- > there are concepts in FreeBSD like base, userland, ports -- something > worth familiarizing yourselves with in order to have a meaningful > conversation. FreeBSD boasts to have the best possible documentation -- > challenge it, read it through, prove it wrong before making assumptions. > Understanding the differences between other OSs is also essential (no, > it is NOT optional) unless you are content to make stupid remarks and be > proud of it. > > It is amusing how people put "constructive criticism" without even > realizing what they are criticizing -- "FreeBSD is not suitable as > desktop environment" (and similar comments), for example. Well, what do > you mean by "desktop environment" and is FreeBSD really offering you > one? Or is your inability to make a third party system play nice on your > hardware, combined with your lack of understanding of what FreeBSD truly > is, is forcing you to expose the shortcomings/frustration on public > forum in shapes and form that makes people think that you hate FreeBSD? > > I wonder . . . > > Have fun! > > > >> regards. >> >> Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>> It seems like there are more then normal (than in years past) people >>> on the >>> -questions@ list that for whatever reason just*HATE*  FreeBSD for >>> technical >>> and non-technical reasons.    If you hate FreeBSD so much why are you on >>> this list and why do you use FreeBSD?  I suspect in many cases they use >>> FreeBSD because it is more stable then their favorite OS (linux).  Hint: >>> that stability is in many cases due to the very reasons you hate FreeBSD >>> (conservative adoption of features for example, not using GPL as much as >>> possible, so called "out-dated" features and lack of "modern" hardware >>> support -- the last two are either subjective or just out right >>> incorrect). > > To answer the original post, IMHO the primary purpose / function of the > Trolls are to > a. fill the Internet with loads of misleading and false information, so > that when newcomers are searching online for information, these > misleading and false information are at the top of the response > b. try to persuade any newcomer from finding the truth and discourage > adopting to FreeBSD > c. So far, I think this is the only place (FreeBSD mailing lists in > general) where people are more accommodating, and does not kick people > out for speaking BS. Despite being member in many Linux lists, I am not > aware of any Linux list being trolled so much, or accommodating to > people with different opinion (if anyone know of any, I'll be quite > happy to take a look at the list archive and accept my mistake). > > The second statement above is from my personal experience. In a former > job, I had serious difficulty in convincing my then line manager as to > why they should move to FreeBSD -- primarily because his "Tech Savvy > Friends" and "googling" convinced him that FreeBSD is the most insecure > OS there can be -- even worse that M$ :P :P :P. At one point I even > setup a server and invited him to ask his friends to find any flaws -- > and of course, he refused to indulge me in that pursuit . . . > > I'm not saying these are the only reasons, but in my own personal > opinion, these are at least within top seven. Well said. Thanks a lot!! Valeri > > Best regards. > >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++