From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 18 19:32:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7988A1065670 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:32:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f218.google.com (mail-gx0-f218.google.com [209.85.217.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330BD8FC1A for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:32:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gxk10 with SMTP id 10so1379426gxk.3 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:32:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=91e7mzcoshBH+KUeVsee/wVY4Q7htAtub2njScqOLJc=; b=xnBpzeiiW5wal2B6WxZW+EpIkKw1E9DUlWiWtvcTnzeOMK1k+vtGZPIHFVY3CrWNvS wtGmdARC2Zweb20bcCCqOp4f63jMViym/V2U3mGD1EO01pFQWgeOWv3SYT5faeJvABkT y8FNhGeNFHsTsAIyAY9qas+zJ2T1LsUzlW1z0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fIl0qNGNguddJDCKMM6WqKLQVxYf/7yxE97e87j5KXoovETAiYTiJ+ZPeF+yOo+1gW gkuThM5sTId0Kpc7baZGciXmi2DFAuvu+0yNb5COXkZfiytt9+o2T+oIg32ZpzmeRx4r O0n8lBgYMIPWh5e77YF7Rsvhe7zAR08hHlxKY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.34.13 with SMTP id m13mr1816691anj.179.1258572732344; Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:32:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20091118172332.GA8542@intserv.int1.b.intern> References: <20091118135340.522fa36a@ernst.jennejohn.org> <4B04020C.3080000@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20091118172332.GA8542@intserv.int1.b.intern> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:32:12 +0200 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Holger Kipp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:42:49 +0000 Cc: freebsd-current , "O. Hartmann" Subject: Re: request: LOADER_ZFS_SUPPORT X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:32:13 -0000 On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Holger Kipp wrote: > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 04:25:09PM +0200, Dan Naumov wrote: >> 2009/11/18 O. Hartmann : >> > Gary Jennejohn wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:44:12 +0200 >> >> Dan Naumov wrote: >> >> >> >>>> WHy not just build from source? >> >>> >> >>> Because expecting users to build from source to install or update >> >>> their systems in the year 2009 is an outdated concept, this is why w= e >> >>> have freebsd-update in the first place. >> >>> >> >> >> >> This is such a load of BS I could fertilize 100 acres with it. >> >> >> >> In this day of inexpensive computers with fast mulit-core CPUs and >> >> gigabytes of memory this argument is completely lame. >> >> >> >> Fifteen years ago I would have agreed, because it took days to build >> >> world and the kernel. =A0Been there, done that. >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Gary Jennejohn >> > >> > Been there, did it, too. >> > >> > Fools, conceptually compromised by Microsofts closed-binary-strategy, = often >> > complain about 'why compiling, it is an outdated concept ...'. It is, = simply >> > in my opinion, a helpless selfdefense: they do not understand much abo= ut >> > operating systems (me, too) and never try to understand the concept be= hind >> > (me not). But today, having sophisticated binary update facilities, it= seems >> > to speed up a worse development: many companies save the computer-scie= ntist >> > to maintain their stuff - because they have a bunch of cheap fools >> > 'fertilizing the acres of foolsness' and pretending being the master o= f the >> > puppets by hitting an 'update-key' and everythings works magically ... >> >> This is unreasonable elitism. Having to jump through hoops, manually > > Ah no. If someone needs a precompiled system with everything, he can go > and use Windows or Linux. I prefer using *BSD _because_ I can compile > everything from scratch. And the build-system usually works much better > than many 'pre-compiled' binary systems on the market. "Can" and "have to" are 2 very different things. >> adjust Makefiles and spend time compiling just to apply a system >> update does NOT make you a "guru". It makes you waste time that could >> be better spent elsewhere. > > Usually adjusting Makefiles is not necessary, because the defaults are fi= ne > for most users. If you _need_ to adjust Makefiles, then a precompiled sol= ution > is definitely not suited to your needs. Trust me on that ;-) Or maybe the defaults are suboptimal? - Sincerely, Dan Naumov