From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 22 18:30:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mandree.no-ip.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0543C106564A; Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:30:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mandree@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by apollo.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB3423CEB5; Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:55:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <500A8A93.5060008@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:55:15 +0200 From: Matthias Andree User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120615 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org References: <20120712100110.GA34228@ithaqua.etoilebsd.net> <201207130826.32942.jhb@freebsd.org> <5000406B.2060201@FreeBSD.org> <201207131220.56501.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201207131220.56501.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: John Baldwin Subject: Re: [HEADSUP & CFT] pkg 1.0rc1 and schedule X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:30:12 -0000 Am 13.07.2012 18:20, schrieb John Baldwin: > To clarify, you are not being criticized for speaking up, you are being > criticized for the way in which you are speaking up (an accusatory tone) and > for blowing off a pointer to a talk that would perhaps answer some of your > questions. John, for lack of testing PKGNG I can't really comment on it on a technical grounds. I do need to support Doug in the way he's 'blown off a pointer to a talk' though, and understand Doug's reluctance in following it. I, too, would refuse to watch a one hour video if I've asked less than a handful of concise and specific questions. Luckily, the answers have more or less been given in sibling threads. > Back to my original e-mail: FreeBSD is a big project. I try to keep a pulse > on as much of it as I can (mostly by reading/skimming a _lot_ of e-mail each > day), but even with all that there is a lot going on that I don't know the > intimate details of. Instead, I choose to trust my fellow developers to > best manage the areas over which they have expertise and detailed knowledge > until given strong evidence to assume otherwise. My humble suggestion to you > would be to adopt a similar strategy. There is one other personal line of thinking I have: if people can't concisely explain what they're up to, I get suspicious, and I sympathize with Doug there. And even though Bapt has made efforts to explain, I can't help but get the feeling that Doug and Bapt have been talking past each other for a while. And I also do not believe that Doug was interested in "this made me happy" case stories by systems administrators, for neither was I. While it's good that we can make some individuals happy, that's a question quite distinct from the question "will it benefit the project as a whole". I found the discussion that spun off between Peter Jeremy and Matthew Seaman rather elucidating, but the one thing I fear is that we no longer have text-based metadata. If you've ever used "pver" as a port version comparision tool, you know how fast the answer "which ports need updating/removal/replacement" can be even with the classical /var/db/pkg layout. I personally see that some of the 1.0rc shortcomings are showstoppers, but then since I've not really been helpful on getting ports in shape for -CURRENT beyond fixing ports so they could be removed from the "fails to build on ...." wiki lists, my opinion hasn't much weight regarding -CURRENT.