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Date:      Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:08:54 -0700 (MST)
From:      Don Yuniskis <dgy@rtd.com>
To:        leec@adam.adonai.net (Lee Crites)
Cc:        dgy@rtd.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, jamil@counterintelligence.ml.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Realtime Programming Under FreeBSD?
Message-ID:  <199709111908.MAA20883@seagull.rtd.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970911124503.22949E-100000@adam.adonai.net> from Lee Crites at "Sep 11, 97 01:04:58 pm"

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In the words of the world-renowned author, Lee Crites:
> 
> On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Don Yuniskis wrote:
> =>In the words of the world-renowned author, Lee Crites:
> =>> While you are correct -- that hard-real-time programming involves
> =>
> =>No... *any* real-time programming involves time in the "correctness"
> =>of the answer.  The difference between HRT and SRT lies solely in the
> =>shape of the value function at the t=deadline.
> =>
> =>> the timeliness of the answer, you are incorrect that this is a
> =>> 'misinformed' definition.  You cannot design a hard-real-time
> =>> system with timings that exceed certain limits.  There is a
> =>> difference between the term 'hard-real-time' and the term
> =>> 'timing'.
> =>
> =>Nonsense!  The magnitude of the times involved is totally
> =>irrelevant to whether a system is RT or not!  An application
> 
> Calm down, Don.  Take a few long breaths and clear your mind for
> a moment.  We are saying the same thing.

No!  *I* didn't put silly "1mS" numbers to in any way pertain to
whether something was RT, HRT, SRT, etc.  I suppose I can dig out
your post and requote the literal reference you made -- I'll leave
that for you to verify!

> Re-read what I said above: "There is a difference between
> 'hard-real-time' and the term 'timing'." 
> 
> =>running at 10KHz can be *non* realtime while one running at
> =>0.000000000001Hz *can* be realtime!  (for example:  a
> =>spacecraft on it's way out of the solar system with a "deadline"
> =>years in the future!)
> 
> You keep confusing my statement and talking about timing.  I
> don't care if you have 5 billionths of a second or five billion
> seconds to come up with the answer.  I differentiated the two
> above.

*You* "quantified" RT at the 1mS/1KHz level.  I merely point out that
this has nothing to do with the issue.  That;s the essence of the
"real-fast" misconception...

> =>> And, generally speaking, hard-real-time systems require timing
> =>> which has a granularity of better than 1ms, thus the common
> =>> statement which I made above.  While I was somewhat guilty of
> =>> mixing metaphores, so to speak, the two issues are different. 
> =>
> =>No!  This is the *biggest* fallacy in the real-time issue!  The
> =>actual times involved are not important to the definition.  I
> 
> They might not be important to the definition, but they are
> *everything* in the process.  If your timings are wrong, your
> real-time system falls apart.  While the definition of real-time
> might not include any kind of delineation concerning time
> periods, the actuality of developing a real-time system is chock
> full of actual -- and real -- timing issues.  You can't ignore
> that.  And hyperventalating over the timing issue doesn't lend
> credit to your statements. 

Reread (carefully) my statements and then reread *yours*.  Perhaps
you've been a bit sloppy in what you've written vs. what you
*intended* to write.  But, when it ocmes to this issue, I try to be
*very* precise in my language.

I repeat:  the actual maginitudes of times, rates or frequencies
has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether a system is RT, SRT or HRT.
The sole criteria is the shape of the value function in the vicinity
(and beyond) of the deadline.

--don



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