From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 00:15:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA27701 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:15:06 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA27685 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:15:00 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA23370; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:41:03 +1000 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:41:03 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510220641.QAA23370@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, pst@shockwave.com Subject: Re: SYSCALL IDEAS [Was: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sysv_msg.c sysv_sem.c sysv_shm.c] Cc: CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, bde@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-sys@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, swallace@ece.uci.edu Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Just FYI, it's never been mine. I routinely use structure >initializers that only gcc grocks, and have even been known to do the >occasional: > { > char foo[n]; > .. > } >To do the job of alloca.. Not that I use the latter construct very >often - I generally just use alloca directly, but the point is that if /usr/src/usr.sbin/config/main.c:120: warning: ANSI C forbids variable-size array `tmp' It's a nice feature, but it probably shouldn't be used without ifdefs in a bootstrapping utility, and using ifdefs negates the advantage of having it (you have to write ugly portable code _and_ ugly ifdefs _and_ code using the feature instead of just ugly portable code). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 00:25:46 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA28025 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:25:46 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA28020 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:25:44 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA00557; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:24:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199510220724.AAA00557@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: Joe Greco , freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 1995 08:32:05 +0200." <199510220632.IAA12224@shadows.cs.hut.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 00:24:11 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Heikki Suonsivu said: > Or one with routing technology which can prioritize customer's traffic > according to the price they pay. The technology isn't there yet, though I > have got a flakey proto written at HUT and I think someone else is also > working on similar modifications. I have also heard cisco planning to do > something like this. Well, the technology is here is called OSI TP4 which allows you to prioritize at least the interface level. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 02:44:21 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA01483 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 02:44:21 -0700 Received: from MediaCity.com (root@easy1.mediacity.com [205.216.172.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA01478 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 02:44:19 -0700 Received: (from brian@localhost) by MediaCity.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA16433 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 02:45:03 -0700 From: Brian Litzinger Message-Id: <199510220945.CAA16433@MediaCity.com> Subject: linux emulations how to? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 02:45:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 542 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I compiled a -current kernel with COMPAT_LINUX and booted it. I got ld.so and shlibs from linux/slackware-2.3 and put it in /compat/linux/lib I modload -e linux_init /lkm/linux_mod.o Then I # ./linuxxdoom zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped) ./linuxxdoom Where did I go wrong? Thanks, -- Brian Litzinger | | brian@mediacity.com | This space intentionally left blank | http://www.mpress.com | | From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 03:09:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA02120 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 03:09:41 -0700 Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02115 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 03:09:31 -0700 Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id LAA02092 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:09:22 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id LAA15941 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:09:21 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.1/keltia-uucp-2.6) id LAA04443; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:08:18 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199510221008.LAA04443@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: linux emulations how to? To: brian@MediaCity.com (Brian Litzinger) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:08:18 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510220945.CAA16433@MediaCity.com> from "Brian Litzinger" at Oct 22, 95 02:45:03 am X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1224 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Brian Litzinger said: > I got ld.so and shlibs from linux/slackware-2.3 and put it in > /compat/linux/lib My libraries are these : total 2242 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 17412 Mar 6 1995 ld.so* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 320516 May 28 23:30 libX11.so.3* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 529412 Oct 14 19:57 libX11.so.6* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 291844 May 28 23:30 libXt.so.3* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 320516 Oct 14 19:57 libXt.so.6* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 623620 Mar 6 1995 libc.so.4* -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 107524 Mar 6 1995 libm.so.4* The .6 are for Abuse. > I modload -e linux_init /lkm/linux_mod.o > Then I > > # ./linuxxdoom > zsh: segmentation fault (core dumped) ./linuxxdoom Do you have SYSVSHM in your kernel ? 812 [11:04] root@keltia:xdomm/doom-1.8# modstat Type Id Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name EXEC 0 2 f0b06000 0018 f0b0b000 1 linux_emulator VFS 1 14 f0cff000 0019 f0d041e0 1 cd9660 814 [11:04] root@keltia:xdomm/doom-1.8# ./xdoom DOOM System Startup v1.8 V_Init: allocate screens. M_LoadDefaults: Load system defaults. Z_Init: Init zone memory allocation daemon. W_Init: Init WADfiles. adding ./doom1.wad shareware version. M_Init: Init miscellaneous info. R_Init: Init DOOM refresh daemon - [...................] P_Init: Init Playloop state. I_Init: Setting up machine state. Could not start sound server [sndserver] D_CheckNetGame: Checking network game status. startskill 2 deathmatch: 0 startmap: 1 startepisode: 1 player 1 of 1 (1 nodes) S_Init: Setting up sound. HU_Init: Setting up heads up display. ST_Init: Init status bar. Using MITSHM extension shared memory id=655360, addr=0x802c000 -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sat Oct 14 19:05:10 MET 1995 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 04:14:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA03776 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 04:14:57 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA03770 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 04:14:49 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) id MAA22506 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:13:26 +0100 Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00300 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:10:01 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:10:00 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD stable dies when mounting /tmp as MFS twice (light weight prosa :-) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Today I had magic fingers... :-) Perhaps one could / should (?) add some sanity checks into the "mount MFS" code that prevent attempts to mount a MFS twice ?! The situation: I had /tmp configured to be MFS mounted. Added /var/tmp to fstab, to be MFS mounted, too. Then I entered the command mount -at mfs and the system crashed within 5 seconds showing the following messages: Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:tries:3 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: etries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): verlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 OverlaD asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands a Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , re0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped comme,0 Overlapped commands attemptes:4 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:8nds attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , FAILUREBORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ah Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: ries:3 Oct 21 12:00:51 knobel /kernel: sd0( $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 05:00:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA04526 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:00:41 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA04521 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:00:38 -0700 Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA22012; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:00:22 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:00:22 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199510221200.FAA22012@time.cdrom.com> To: announce@freebsd.org Subject: package installer menu in new sysinstall Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Please stay away from it for now.. It's got some problems that I'm working on and probably will NOT work in the FTP installation scenarios that most of you are using, sorry about that! I should have it fixed tonite, it's just that other problems (which are now also fixed) sort of kept me away from the package extraction menu until now.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 05:22:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA05256 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:22:57 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA05251 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:22:55 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA00244; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:46:10 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510221216.VAA00244@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:46:09 +0930 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, davidg@root.com, root@spiffy.cybernet.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510201024.FAA29169@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Oct 20, 95 05:24:46 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1682 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > The PC16550D (The "reference" part for 16550's) is specified to a 24MHz input > > clock. > > And here I always thought it was the National Semiconductor part that was > the "reference" part, because the 16550 was originally their fault. I still The PC16550D _is_ the NatSemi part. It supersedes the PC16550C, and thus the NC16550* range. The NS16550's haven't been available for some years now, AFAIK. If you have some you bought recently, check the fab date on them. > > The standard clock reference for this part in a PC is 1.8MHz. > > Decent serial card vendors (eg. Quatech) offer jumper-selectable clock > > dividers to allow you to pick your desired clock rate. > > I have yet to see this on any reasonably-priced card :-( Fortunately, > it's a cheap upgrade to do if you're handy with a soldering iron.. Likewise, which is why we fork out >$100 for these ones. (They're absolutely everything you could ever want in a serial card; jumperable IRQ overy every imaginable value, switch-selectable base addresses in increments of 8 from 0x0 to 0x400, optional open-collector interrupt outputs, jumperable DTE/DCE pinouts, 18MHz bit clock dividable by 1, 2 5 or 10... rah rah rah 8) > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 05:40:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAA05978 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:40:06 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (knobel-ip.gun.de [192.109.159.141]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id FAA05959 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 05:39:58 -0700 Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00971 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:36:17 +0100 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:36:17 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD stable dies when mounting /tmp as MFS twice (light weight prosa :-) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I'm remailing this, because I didn't see it in hackers mailing list after 24 hours ... $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:10:00 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD stable dies when mounting /tmp as MFS twice (light weight prosa :-) Hi ! Today I had magic fingers... :-) Perhaps one could / should (?) add some sanity checks into the "mount MFS" code that prevent attempts to mount a MFS twice ?! The situation: I had /tmp configured to be MFS mounted. Added /var/tmp to fstab, to be MFS mounted, too. Then I entered the command mount -at mfs and the system crashed within 5 seconds showing the following messages: Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:47 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:tries:3 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: etries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): verlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 OverlaD asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands a Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:48 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , re0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped comme,0 Overlapped commands attemptes:4 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:4 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: , retries:3 Oct 21 12:00:49 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:8nds attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , FAILUREBORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:2 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): ABORTED COMMAND asc:4e,0 Overlapped commands attempted sks:80,0 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , FAILURE Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: sd0(ah Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: , retries:1 Oct 21 12:00:50 knobel /kernel: ries:3 Oct 21 12:00:51 knobel /kernel: sd0( $$ apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd @home : andreas@knobel.gun.de $$ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu @work : andreas@sunny.wup.de $$ /pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz knobel: >>> powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 06:59:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id GAA07162 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 06:59:47 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id GAA07157 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 06:59:44 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA22346 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 06:59:28 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: User groups update? Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 06:59:28 -0700 Message-ID: <22344.814370368@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all.. About 6 months ago, there was a lot of hoopla about forming FreeBSD user groups and such, and a few of this list's more intrepid members even went so far as to establish a few in different parts of the U.S. A successful "international conference" was also held in Aachen, and great congradulations are due Christoph Kukulies for pulling off what was apparently a very entertaining and successful event - sorry I couldn't make it!. Anyway, I just want to make sure that we're not losing steam in what is a very worth-while endevour: The formation of user groups for discussing and supporting FreeBSD. Look at it this way: We don't have a book, and as much as we'd like to we're just not going to have one for awhile. This therefore leaves email, word of mouth and user groups as the only ways of disseminating information. User groups have the added benefit of giving us hacker types something social to do occasionally, and you often learn far more from an evening of discussion with other hackers than you could in a week of reading email. For the more commercially inclined, user groups are also a great way of making potentially valuable contacts and are very worth-while indeed! Putting my money where my mouth is, I've long felt pretty bad that there's not even a FreeBSD user group here in the San Francisco bay area, where I live. I don't get the excuse to go to S.F. as often as I'd like as it is! :-) So I'd like to propose here and now that we start the San Francisco branch of the FreeBSD User Group (FUG), to meet sometime before October 30th - send me mail if you're interested in attending, and any preferred days and times. I'll set up the venue and take care of the other details. And no, I don't think we should call it the FreeBSD Users & Collected Kindred group.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 08:34:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA11199 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 08:34:37 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA11192 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 08:34:31 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA00961; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:33:27 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510221533.KAA00961@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:33:26 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510212251.SAA05887@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 21, 95 06:51:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Cheating them? > > Yes. Because they think their getting 128k (or 115k) and they're only > getting 90K. Where is this 90K figure coming from? 115200 / 10 = 11520 bytes/second (or 11.25K) 115200 / 8 = 14400 bytes/second (or 14.06K) > Now if you TELL them that they're only getting 90K and thats what they're > paying for, > then thats OK...the way it should be. But if they think they're getting 115 > or 128k for > what their paying, then its being misrepresented. If I were to sell a customer an async ISDN line, they are getting precisely what they pay for. It is not being misrepresented. They are paying for, and receiving, 115k of async bandwidth. What is it about this that you have difficulty comprehending? > If I were your competitor my > Newspaper adds would read (get full 128k with ET (Joe only gives you 90K)) > I'd have so many more customers that I could eat the cost of the sync cards > and laugh my > way to the bank. And then to court (but hey, that's just me). Of course if you really think you would have so many more customers that you could afford to write off the cost of the sync cards, maybe it would be easier to just wait until you go under and take your customer base at that point. > >Buddy, in this business, people PAY for bandwidth. An ISP could really care > >less about the technology used to connect a customer's site - it only > >affects recurring monthly costs and startup costs, which are passed off to > >the customer anyways. What you're REALLY paying the ISP for is bandwidth! > >And if you drop in a technology that squeezes more data over the line, the > >ISP needs to take this into account in their overall strategy. A T1 can be > >split into over 30 64K async channels before reaching bandwidth overcommit, > >whereas it can only be split into 24 sync channels! That is a respectable > >impact on operations. > > Precisely. Charge for the bandwidth. You can charge MORE for sync, because > you get more. > I thought that the idea of being in business was to make money, one by having > value-added services, each of which I make a small margin, and the other to get > more customers by having something to offer that my competitor doesn't have. But who says the competitor doesn't offer it? It's just disproportionately expensive, which is why most people don't care to look into it. > I'm getting the > feeling that all of your customers must be residential, in which case you > may not have an opportunity. No, actually all of my customers are businesses, and are connected at rates that are at least Ethernet. This is purely an academic exercise :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 09:07:25 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA14465 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:07:25 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA14460 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:07:20 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07272; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:24:03 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:24:03 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221624.MAA07272@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Heikki Suonsivu From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >BTW, I have a $1000 (minus possible taxes) reward available for the author >of a free driver for a commonly available synchronous serial card like SDL, >ET or Arnet. Ie. sources available and non-restrictive license (preferably >both GPL and Berkey to allow it to be included both in Linux and *BSD*). >Need to talk to ciscos (that is what usually is in the other end). Needs Add two 0's to this number and we can talk. We'll have it as part of our product very shortly, but....for the reasons that you just stated, no "right to steal" licenses available. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 09:23:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA21114 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:23:10 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA21083 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:23:08 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA25240 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:21:59 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA07304 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:38:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:38:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221638.MAA07304@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith brags... >> > The PC16550D (The "reference" part for 16550's) is specified to a 24MHz input >> > clock. >> >> And here I always thought it was the National Semiconductor part that was >> the "reference" part, because the 16550 was originally their fault. I still > >The PC16550D _is_ the NatSemi part. It supersedes the PC16550C, and >thus the NC16550* range. The NS16550's haven't been available for >some years now, AFAIK. If you have some you bought recently, check the >fab date on them. >Likewise, which is why we fork out >$100 for these ones. (They're >absolutely everything you could ever want in a serial card; jumperable >IRQ overy every imaginable value, switch-selectable base addresses in >increments of 8 from 0x0 to 0x400, optional open-collector interrupt >outputs, jumperable DTE/DCE pinouts, 18MHz bit clock dividable by 1, 2 5 or >10... rah rah rah 8) I really can't believe you guys are bragging about the widespread utilization of souped-up async. You still don't get the fact that you're losing several hundred dollars worth of machine (which brings the cost in-line with sync) to save a few hundred on cards for a less-efficient solution. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 09:45:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA27728 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:45:50 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA27719 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:45:40 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23476; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <308A7517.3CB52305@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:45:11 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dennis CC: Heikki Suonsivu , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. References: <199510221624.MAA07272@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > We'll have it as part of our product very shortly, but....for the reasons > that you just stated, no "right to steal" licenses available. That's OK. There are a number of other sync serial cards for which support is forthcoming (I've already directed Heikki at John Hay and the ARNET driver in progress) and for which all driver sources should be available. Given that we're supposed to be a full-source, free OS (and always interested in seeing sharing work with other OSs) I think that this is a good direction and I applaud Heikki for being willing enough to pony up a non-trivial amount of money. No, $1000 is not enough to even remotely tempt a company into doing support, but it may be just enough to push someone who was contemplating it anyway into writing a driver.. -- Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:06:06 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28101 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:06:06 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28096 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:06:03 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23516; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:05:41 -0700 Message-ID: <308A79E5.64A99F5A@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:05:41 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dennis CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. References: <199510221638.MAA07304@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > I really can't believe you guys are bragging about the widespread > utilization of souped-up async. You still don't get the fact that you're losing several > hundred dollars worth of machine (which brings the cost in-line with sync) to save a few > hundred on cards for a less-efficient solution. I think your view in these matters may be a little too narrow (which is probably fine, given the market you have your eye on - one man's narrow vision is another man's intense product focus :-). What we're talking about is *incremental* cost, which is very important to the low-budget folks. We're not talking about what we'd build if we had all the money up front to implement whatever solution would be most optimum - we're talking about how to get one's feet wet without going all the way in up to the neck on the first step. In my case, I had a pair of TAs readily available (did I mention that I haven't actually *purchased* these TAs yet? These two are loaners, pending me somehow getting the P.O. pushed through WC for the real ones) and 2 PCs just sitting there. I already had a PC dedicated to being a gateway anyway, so sparing the performance hit on that little 486 wasn't a consideration. If I'd had a 386 sitting in the corner, that would have done the job instead. So my only incremental cost were the TAs which, as I mention, haven't even technically become a cost yet. The rest was accomplished with a couple of standard serial cards and some cables. That's it. I didn't have to load any special drivers and I didn't have to buy any other hardware. Now that's just me, but I don't think that my situation is that unique. Let's assume I'm Joe Sixpack and even more budget constrained (all those cases of Miller High Life in the garage aren't cheap!). In that case I can go for a pair of the cheaper TAs out there (I think that even the async capable Bitsurfers are going down to around $450) in a month or two (about how long it will take PacBell to install my line) and try to scrounge a couple of PCs that nobody wants anymore anymore over at corporate (read: anything less woofy than a 486DX). That's called low incremental cost, and for many many home users that pretty much makes the difference between the "right" solution and the "right now" solution. Sure, I know I'm not getting my full pipe and that the async overhead is high, but do I care? Heck no! I'm still over the moon at being able to go substantially faster than V.34, and I suspect that Joe Sixpack would be too. That's why I asked about the cheapo version of a sync serial card. Let's talk 3 more months down the line and Joe has managed to raise a few more pennies by recycling all the aluminum beer cans from the back seat of his car.. All that money is burning a hole in his pocket and he's thinking "Hmmmm. If I could find a pair of cards for $200 or so that would let me get my last little 38.9%, I could definitely drink "lite" for another couple of weeks to make up for it." Again, incremental cost. You, as a marketing person, must surely appreciate that! "Suck 'em in cheap and keep 'em paying" must be one of the first lessons they teach at the P.T. Barnum Memorial University and I think it applies pretty squarely to this whole Internet fracas. The regional bells are pushing ISDN in a big way, and I think that's the next "upgrade" that all those legions of Internet addicts will next be contemplating. When they do, you may rest assured that they won't flock to the most expensive solutions available. I know, you've said that a cheap sync serial card is the least of your plans and you wouldn't touch ISDN with a stick. I'm not suggesting that YOU do this, merely that someone do. When they do, be it a cheap ISDN card or sync serial upgrade, Joe and I will probably be there with our checkbooks. -- Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:25:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28695 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:25:32 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28689 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:25:29 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA07437; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:42:17 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:42:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221742.NAA07437@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: RE: Freeware reward????? Cc: Heikki Suonsivu , hackers@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan writes..... >dennis wrote: >> We'll have it as part of our product very shortly, but....for the reasons >> that you just stated, no "right to steal" licenses available. > >That's OK. There are a number of other sync serial cards for which support is >forthcoming (I've already directed Heikki at John Hay and the ARNET driver in progress) >and for which all driver sources should be available. "Freeware" drivers are not competition. They just eliminate the pikers. Given that most commercial companies have trouble doing commercially acceptable products in this area , whats the chance that some guy with way too much free time can do better? > Given that we're supposed to be a >full-source, free OS (and always interested in seeing sharing work with other OSs) I >think that this is a good direction and I applaud Heikki for being willing enough to pony >up a non-trivial amount of money. No, $1000 is not enough to even remotely tempt a >company into doing support, but it may be just enough to push someone who was >contemplating it anyway into writing a driver.. >-- Is this for the "best" resulting product, or the first? Or don't you care? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:31:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA28848 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:31:18 -0700 Received: from icicle (root@icicle.winternet.com [198.174.169.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA28843 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:31:16 -0700 Received: from hal.winternet.com (ppp-66-43.dialup.winternet.com [204.246.66.43]) by icicle (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06536 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:31:13 -0500 Posted-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:31:13 -0500 Received: by hal.winternet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1+GPO.winter1) id AA11410; Sun, 22 Oct 95 12:27:14 CDT Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95 12:27:14 CDT Message-Id: <9510221727.AA11410@hal.winternet.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New record for installation floppy update! :-) From: glen@winternet.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anybody with a 4M i386sx able to get the boot disks to work? This is what I get: rootfs is 1000 Kbyte compile in MFS (long pause) Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x0 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf018c45d code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enableeed, resume, IPL = 0 current process = 1 (swapper) interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault I retrieved the latest boot floppy from ftp.freebsd.org at noon Sunday: -rw-r--r-- 1 glen 1228800 Oct 22 10:04 boot.flp the past TWO boot disks have given an identical panic (the PC was the same) glen From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:39:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29119 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:39:19 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29087 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:39:12 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA07481; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:56:02 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:56:02 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221756.NAA07481@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >dennis wrote: >> I really can't believe you guys are bragging about the widespread >> utilization of souped-up async. You still don't get the fact that you're losing several >> hundred dollars worth of machine (which brings the cost in-line with sync) to save a few >> hundred on cards for a less-efficient solution. > >I think your view in these matters may be a little too narrow (which is probably fine, >given the market you have your eye on - one man's narrow vision is another man's intense >product focus :-). > >What we're talking about is *incremental* cost, which is very important to the low-budget >folks. We're not talking about what we'd build if we had all the money up front to >implement whatever solution would be most optimum - we're talking about how to get one's >feet wet without going all the way in up to the neck on the first step. > I'm talking about incremental profit, a capitalist concept. Have something better in your bag of goddies that costs a few dollars more an month and people will buy it every time. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:45:56 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29462 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:45:56 -0700 Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29457 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:45:55 -0700 Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA23167; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:45:42 -0700 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199510221745.KAA23167@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Freeware reward????? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510221742.NAA07437@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 22, 95 01:42:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1148 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > "Freeware" drivers are not competition. They just eliminate the pikers. > Given that most > commercial companies have trouble doing commercially acceptable products in > this area > , whats the chance that some guy with way too much free time can do better? well, it depends on the guy :) > > > Is this for the "best" resulting product, or the first? Or don't you care? One interesting side effect of being a source-OS is that once the first version is written, other people improve on it till it becomes acceptable.. there are lots of people who don't feel competant to start a driver from scratch, but who would happily leap in and extend/modify an existing one.. so in fact the answer might actually be the "first resulting product", and "no we don't care", but only on the understanding that the product will be worked on by multitudes.. :) > > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:48:11 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29547 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:48:11 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29542 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:48:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00828; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:47:48 -0700 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:56:02 EDT." <199510221756.NAA07481@etinc.com> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:47:47 -0700 Message-ID: <826.814384067@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm talking about incremental profit, a capitalist concept. Have something > better in your bag of > goddies that costs a few dollars more an month and people will buy it every > time. I wasn't aware that ET offered a pay-by-the-month plan for their serial cards, and for as little as $3 a month too! You're right, I think you'll get a lot of requests with a deal like that.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 10:50:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA29638 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:50:53 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA29631 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:50:50 -0700 Received: from et.htp.com (et.htp.com [199.171.4.228]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA07514; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:07:41 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:07:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221807.OAA07514@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan writes.... >That's why I asked about the cheapo version of a sync serial card. Let's talk 3 more >months down the line and Joe has managed to raise a few more pennies by recycling all the >aluminum beer cans from the back seat of his car.. All that money is burning a hole in >his pocket and he's thinking "Hmmmm. If I could find a pair of cards for $200 or so that >would let me get my last little 38.9%, I could definitely drink "lite" for another couple >of weeks to make up for it." Again, incremental cost. You, as a marketing person, must >surely appreciate that! "Suck 'em in cheap and keep 'em paying" must be one of the first >lessons they teach at the P.T. Barnum Memorial University and I think it applies pretty >squarely to this whole Internet fracas. The regional bells are pushing ISDN in a big way, >and I think that's the next "upgrade" that all those legions of Internet addicts will next >be contemplating. When they do, you may rest assured that they won't flock to the most >expensive solutions available. The regional Bells are pushing ISDN because they've invested billions in the technology and they're in danger of losing their dial-tone customers to competition due to de-regulation. They're going to lose much of their revenue base and they need to have a use for the ports on their switches. If you think its the next "great upgrade" you're badly mistaken. >I know, you've said that a cheap sync serial card is the least of your plans and you >wouldn't touch ISDN with a stick. I'm not suggesting that YOU do this, merely that >someone do. When they do, be it a cheap ISDN card or sync serial upgrade, Joe and I will >probably be there with our checkbooks. Of course you value you're time much less than I do. Little checks...they're a pain just to cash. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 11:20:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA00875 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:23 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00870 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:20 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01020; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:19:58 -0700 Message-ID: <308A8B4E.6F9AB114@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:19:58 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dennis CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. References: <199510221807.OAA07514@etinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote: > on their switches. If you > think its the next "great upgrade" you're badly mistaken. Why? I don't see where the regional bell's *motivation* is at all the issue. I understand that you're pretty biased against ISDN in favor of your own Frame Relay solutions, but let's not go trying to adjust reality to fit the picture you'd like it to be! If people buy ISDN, it will be a success. So far, people are buying ISDN and all the technical criticism in the world you may have won't change that fact one iota. I think we're arguing at cross purposes. I'm talking about what the end-user wants and you're telling me what they SHOULD want and, in Dennis's ideal world, would want. Sorry, but you clearly haven't been a user in nearly long enough to have informed opinions about that anymore - you have a high speed sync serial "hammer" and now you insist that everything looks like a nail. > Of course you value you're time much less than I do. Little checks...they're > a pain just to cash. Yeah, you're right Dennis - I clearly value my time less. I must be, since we're having this pointless debate! :-) Also, WRT the little checks, I guess you'd have told Dave Thomas to take a hike if he'd come to you for startup funding too, wouldn't you? Dave: "I need just a $10,000 and you can have 10% of the whole business. I want to call it "Wendy's" and the idea is that we'll sell a good burger for under $2.00" Dennis: "What? You want to sell burgers for 2 bucks?! You're nuts! People want to pay $20 for a clearly superior burger, not $2! You'll lose your shirt! Take a hike, you idiot!" Yeah, I can picture that.. :-) -- Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 11:20:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA00913 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:31 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA00903 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:28 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA27451 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:19:56 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA28409 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:19:55 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA03456 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:18:56 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510221818.TAA03456@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: What is the best way... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:18:55 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 789 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ...to implement something similar to the xxx_poll() driver entry points in SysV? For those whod don't know, these entries are supposed to be called on each clock tick (at spl6, i think this is `soft clock'), and they are useful for devices that lose interrupts, or that don't even have an interrupt of its own. The closest thing one could do (besides from the approach e.g. pcaudio is using, which i consider being overkill as a poll() replacement) were to continuously re-issue yet another timeout on each clock tick. However, since that would cause timeout() to walk the entire timer queue, it's rather expensive. Bruce? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 11:29:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA01314 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:29:27 -0700 Received: from cps201.cps.cmich.edu (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01309 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:29:25 -0700 Received: from cps201 (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by cps201.cps.cmich.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05294 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:29:19 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:29:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Bailey X-Sender: mbailey@cps201 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SNAP 951020 Kernel compile problems. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Below is the final protions of building a kernel for my machine. and yet below that is the config that I used to try to build this kernel. If someone would be so kind to take a look and see if there is something obvious that I missed. I would be greatful. Thanks again Matthew S. Bailey >From root@taz.emmons.cmich.eduSun Oct 22 14:26:58 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:10:11 -0400 From: Charlie Root To: mbailey@cps.cmich.edu Script started on Sun Oct 22 10:09:37 1995 taz# make loading kernel conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdopen' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdclose' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdstrategy' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdioctl' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdopen' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdclose' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdioctl' referenced from data segment conf.o: Undefined symbol `_wcdstrategy' referenced from data segment *** Error code 1 Stop. taz# exit taz# exit Script done on Sun Oct 22 10:09:45 1995 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:10:37 -0400 From: Charlie Root To: mbailey@cps.cmich.edu # # ATAPI -- GENERIC kernel with ATAPI (IDE) CDROM support added. # # $Id: ATAPI,v 1.2 1995/10/05 04:34:30 jkh Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident DEVIL maxusers 256 options "CHILD_MAX=256" options "OPEN_MAX=256" options USER_LDT options NQNFS options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options MSDOSFS #MSDOS Filesystem options "CD9660" #ISO 9660 Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 options ATAPI #Enable ATAPI support for IDE bus device wcd0 #IDE CD-ROM controller ahc0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 device cd0 #Only need one of these, the code dynamically grows # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver #device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint #options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 #options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. device de0 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 64 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 11:35:53 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA01638 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:35:53 -0700 Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA01633 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:35:51 -0700 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA25727 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:34:33 -0700 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA01089; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:30:32 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA28486; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:30:31 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA03572; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:23:40 +0100 From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199510221823.TAA03572@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: New record for installation floppy update! :-) To: glen@winternet.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:23:39 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9510221727.AA11410@hal.winternet.com> from "glen@winternet.com" at Oct 22, 95 12:27:14 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 297 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As glen@winternet.com wrote: > > Is anybody with a 4M i386sx able to get the boot disks to work? I don't think it's supposed to. :-( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 12:26:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA03835 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:26:07 -0700 Received: from hutcs.cs.hut.fi (root@hutcs.cs.hut.fi [130.233.192.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA03829 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:26:03 -0700 Received: from shadows.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA23857 (5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4); Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:25:48 +0200 Received: (hsu@localhost) by shadows.cs.hut.fi (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA12777; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:25:58 +0200 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:25:58 +0200 Message-Id: <199510221925.VAA12777@shadows.cs.hut.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Heikki Suonsivu , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: RE: Freeware reward????? In-Reply-To: <199510221742.NAA07437@etinc.com> References: <199510221742.NAA07437@etinc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis writes: > Given that most > commercial companies have trouble doing commercially acceptable products in > this area > , whats the chance that some guy with way too much free time can do better? They can't do it better, usually, unless some kind of system can be built to make free software a profitable business. Cygnus is an example of this; I think there other alternatives like funds into which people can donate money for a specific piece of free software to be built, like this specific case, although in lack of suitable fund we need just to make promises. If the drivers are completed, within a year we will see which method turns out to be the best. If cards supported by freely available drivers sell more then than those with no freely available drivers, in FreeBSD environment, we can make conclusions. Until that, we can only speculate. Maybe we should drop -hackers off the receivers? > Is this for the "best" resulting product, or the first? Or don't you care? We are not searching for the best product we can get. We are searching for a product which happens to do what we need: make either two FreeBSD machines or a Cisco and a FreeBSD machine to talk to each other over a synchronous link. ET cards would probably do the job, but I do find free drivers an additional bonus which I give high value for. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@cs.hut.fi home +358-0-8031121 work -4513377 fax -4555276 riippu SN From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 12:34:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA03927 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:34:51 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA03922 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:34:49 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA25737; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:34:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:34:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. In-Reply-To: <308A8B4E.6F9AB114@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I've been using a pair of Adtran ISU128's for some time, they do both sync and async; I'm not tellin' which I'm using :) I do have one complaint though. The async interfaces have TTL voltage levels though they supply these little 'adapters' labeled to suggest they convert the RS530 async. connections to RS232. In fact all they do is transpose some of the signal leads.. anyone know of a source for some boxes to convert RS530 to real RS232 ? I heard the newer ISU Express units have real RS232 levels, is this what you have Jordan ? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 12:53:54 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04644 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:53:54 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04638 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:53:52 -0700 Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19659 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:53:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199510221953.MAA19659@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:34:40 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:53:41 -0700 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Anyone knows if the Ascend's Pipeline 50 uses asynch or sync ? Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 12:59:49 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA04827 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:59:49 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA04822 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:59:47 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA05348; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:59:17 -0700 Message-ID: <308AA295.794BDF32@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:59:17 -0700 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b1 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kim Culhan CC: dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Kim Culhan wrote: > I heard the newer ISU Express units have real RS232 levels, is this > what you have Jordan ? Yep! I have the L1 model - the cheapest member of the Express family. -- Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 14:58:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA09321 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:58:50 -0700 Received: from io.org (root@io.org [142.77.70.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id OAA09291 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:58:39 -0700 Received: from flinch.io.org (flinch.io.org [198.133.36.153]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA20606; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:58:13 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:58:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L , FREEBSD-QUESTIONS-L Subject: Re: 2.1.0-951020-SNAP available on ftp.io.org In-Reply-To: <17663.814287185@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 21 Oct 1995, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > This snapshot is available on: > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP/ > > We also regret that a space crunch currently precludes our putting it > on freefall.freebsd.org, as we usually do. Some of you may wish to > wait until it hits your local mirror (ftp.cdrom.com is always pretty > heavily loaded!). As a side note, I just pulled the 2.1.0-951020-SNAP directory over to ftp://ftp.io.org/pub/systems/freebsd/2.1.0-951020-SNAP, including the boot, root and fixit floppies dated October 21. ftp.io.org is a 486DX2/66 that was recently downgraded to 32 megs, so I've lowered the limit on remote anonymous FTP logins to 30 at a time (it also handles IRC server duty). There's normally 12 to 15 in that user class. So if ftp.cdrom.com is full and you have a fast link through UUNET Canada, then try ftp.io.org. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 16:28:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA12035 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:28:27 -0700 Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12030 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:28:24 -0700 Received: from corbin.Root.COM (corbin [198.145.90.50]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA02181; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:28:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by corbin.Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00837; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:26:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199510222326.QAA00837@corbin.Root.COM> To: Matthew Bailey cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SNAP 951020 Kernel compile problems. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 95 14:29:18 EDT." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:26:45 -0700 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Below is the final protions of building a kernel for my machine. and yet >below that is the config that I used to try to build this kernel. > >If someone would be so kind to take a look and see if there is something >obvious that I missed. I would be greatful. You need to have IDE controller support - the "wdc0/wd0" entries were apparantly removed. -DG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 16:35:33 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA12197 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:33 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12189 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07915; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:26 -0700 To: announce@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Latest 2.1.0-951020-SNAP floppies now available. Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:26 -0700 Message-ID: <7913.814404926@time.cdrom.com> From: Charlie & Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP/floppies These fix many reported problems.. Thanks for the feedback, folks, and please keep it coming! Every bug fixed now is one less we'll have for 2.1. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 16:52:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA12485 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:52:10 -0700 Received: from ofw.jri.co.jp (ofw.jri.co.jp [202.32.75.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12478 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:52:06 -0700 From: shibuya@$inet1.tyo.open.jri.co.jp Received: by ofw.jri.co.jp; id IAA00991; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:52:03 +0900 Received: from unknown(10.127.7.6) by ofw.jri.co.jp via smap (V1.3) id sma000986; Mon Oct 23 08:52:00 1995 Received: from r6.jri.co.jp by jriuu.sci.jri.co.jp (16.6/IIJ-U1.1-JRI1.3-950113) id AA03188; Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:51:57 +0900 Received: from [10.31.10.198] by r6.ichi.jri.co.jp (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/3.3W4-jri-relay-1.1) id AA39421; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:51:25 +0900 Received: from cc:Mail SMTPLINK 2.1 by $inet1.tyo.open.jri.co.jp id 9510238144.AA814463554; Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:52:34 JST Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:52:34 JST Message-Id: <9510238144.AA814463554@$inet1.tyo.open.jri.co.jp> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: cc:Mail SMTPLINK Undeliverable Message Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Message undeliverable at this time Original text follows ---------------------------------------------- Received: from r6.ichi.jri.co.jp by ccMail SMTPLINK 2.1 >From owner-freebsd-announce@freefall.freebsd.org X-Envelope-From: owner-freebsd-announce@freefall.freebsd.org Received: from jriuu.sci.jri.co.jp by r6.ichi.jri.co.jp (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/3.3W4-jri-relay-1.1) id AA36596; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:07 +0900 Received: from ofw.jri.co.jp by jriuu.sci.jri.co.jp (16.6/IIJ-U1.1-JRI1.3-950113) id AA03182; Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:50:35 +0900 Received: by ofw.jri.co.jp; id IAA00958; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:33 +0900 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org(192.216.222.4) by ofw.jri.co.jp via smap (V1.3) id sma000954; Mon Oct 23 08:50:11 1995 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12395 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:49:09 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA12212 for announce-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:36 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA12189 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:29 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA07915; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:26 -0700 To: announce@freebsd.org Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Latest 2.1.0-951020-SNAP floppies now available. Reply-To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:35:26 -0700 Message-Id: <7913.814404926@time.cdrom.com> From: Charlie & Sender: owner-announce@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP/floppies These fix many reported problems.. Thanks for the feedback, folks, and please keep it coming! Every bug fixed now is one less we'll have for 2.1. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 16:56:05 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id QAA12565 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:56:05 -0700 Received: from proxy.siemens.at (proxy.siemens.at [192.138.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA12560 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:56:02 -0700 Received: from PC0087.gud.siemens.co.at (pc0087.gud.siemens-austria) by proxy.siemens.at with SMTP id AA00202 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 00:55:27 +0100 Received: by PC0087.gud.siemens.co.at; Mon, 23 Oct 95 0:57:44 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 0:59:00 GUD Message-Id: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: Subject: Undeliverable Message X-Incognito-Sn: 366 X-Incognito-Format: VERSION=2.01 ENCRYPTED=NO Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk To: Cc: Subject: Latest 2.1.0-951020-SNAP floppies now available. Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3043: Karl-Heinz Lemp@ISA5@PSE OE VNM3043 -- MAILBOX IS FULL The message cannot be delivered because the recipient's mailbox contains the maximum number of messages, as set by the system administrator. The recipient must delete some messages before any other messages can be delivered. The maximum message limit for a user's mailbox is 10,000. The default message limit is 1000 messages. Administrators can set message limits using the Mailbox Settings function available in the Manage User menu (MUSER). When a user's mailbox reaches the limit, the user must delete some of the messages before the mailbox can accept any more incoming messages. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ----------------------On ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP/floppies These fix many reported problems.. Thanks for the feedback, folks, and please keep it coming! Every bug fixed now is one less we'll have for 2.1. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 17:12:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id RAA12821 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:12:30 -0700 Received: from cps201.cps.cmich.edu (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id RAA12816 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:12:27 -0700 Received: from cps201 (cps201.cps.cmich.edu [141.209.20.201]) by cps201.cps.cmich.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11211; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:11:06 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:11:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Matthew Bailey X-Sender: mbailey@cps201 To: David Greenman cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SNAP 951020 Kernel compile problems. In-Reply-To: <199510222326.QAA00837@corbin.Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Oct 1995, David Greenman wrote: > > You need to have IDE controller support - the "wdc0/wd0" entries were > apparantly removed. The LINT file says the two lines are required. There is nothing stating you need to have a controller. Some of use SCSI hard Drives this is not all that obvious. I think a little note in the LINT makefile would be advisable. Matt From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 19:16:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA16608 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:16:19 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA16603 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:16:14 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08448; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:33:16 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:33:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230233.WAA08448@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Julian Elischer From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> >> >BTW, I have a $1000 (minus possible taxes) reward available for the author >> >of a free driver for a commonly available synchronous serial card like SDL, >> >ET or Arnet. Ie. sources available and non-restrictive license (preferably >> >both GPL and Berkey to allow it to be included both in Linux and *BSD*). >> >Need to talk to ciscos (that is what usually is in the other end). Needs >> >> Add two 0's to this number and we can talk. >> >> We'll have it as part of our product very shortly, but....for the reasons >> that you just stated, no "right to steal" licenses available. >I do understand the fact that you've put so much work into your >product's software.. >but do you really think that if it were released in source, that it >would negatively impact your sales? >This is a serious question.. >what do you think would happen? >My expectation is that it would immediatly be ported to Lynx , OS9, >and other OS's and become an industry standard.. not >a bad place to be really. The technologies that we have (Frame Relay, X.25 sync PPP, etc) would immediately be ported to less expensive boards, creating a price war over hardware since none of you care about anything but cost. If it became very popular then others would build similar boards.It wouldn't create any markets, since no-one uses a T1 board if they don't need it. No serious commercial venture would use it anyway, because these types of products aren't like modems. You need support, and no-one is going to bet their business on a driver maintained by some weeny part-time programmer in lower Mongolia. You also need a program, and FreeBSD doesn't have one. >. Have you considered releaseinf drivers for >some small part of your product line as an experiment and watching >what happens? I've considered releasing a "freeware" source version of our board drivers.... No Frame Relay, No X.25, No Sync PPP, No Utilities).....but what is there to gain? We're already selling boards faster than we can build them. Who wants to sell 1,000 boards at (Jordan's price of) $150.? I believe that it would result in the cannabilization of the business I already have. People willing to pay will get it cheaper, and the really cheap and stupid will still go out and buy $700. junk routers (or soup up their async boards to do higher speeds!) In 1991, Western Digital was selling 20,000 Ethernet boards a month, which was unbelievable at the time. Whats more unbelivable is that they were losing money. Communism failed for a reason, you know. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 19:34:02 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA17246 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:34:02 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA17241 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:33:57 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08494; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:51:01 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:51:01 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230251.WAA08494@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >dennis wrote: >> on their switches. If you >> think its the next "great upgrade" you're badly mistaken. > >Why? I don't see where the regional bell's *motivation* is at all the issue. You brought it up. The fact that some RBOCs are pushing ISDN is not what it seems. It costs big bucks to tool-up for ISDN, and once you do you have to sell LOTS of it to recover your costs. The world will change when de-reg hits. The world will also change when switched FR hits. >I understand that you're pretty biased against ISDN in favor of your own Frame Relay >solutions, but let's not go trying to adjust reality to fit the picture you'd like it to >be! If people buy ISDN, it will be a success. So far, people are buying ISDN and all >the technical criticism in the world you may have won't change that fact one iota. They're different markets, Jordan. ISDN will never be private line replacement, its a replacement for dial-up. I have nothing against ISDN, in fact we intend to support the sync solution that I've been discussing. (There's a neat new 512K ISDN concentrator out....crank up your xtals boys!) I said I wouldn't use it myself because I'd rather have a private line. I see no benefit whatsoever in using something thats "included" in the O/S, since there's no one out there that will do it as well as we can...and if we do it it will be portable and immediately available for NetBSD, BSD/OS and Linux and whatever else I decide to sell (which is a LOT bigger market than the FreeBSD market alone). db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 19:38:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA17381 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:38:13 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA17375 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:38:09 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08501; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:55:12 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:55:12 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230255.WAA08501@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Heikki Suonsivu From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: RE: Freeware reward????? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >dennis writes: > > Given that most > > commercial companies have trouble doing commercially acceptable products in > > this area > > , whats the chance that some guy with way too much free time can do better? > >They can't do it better, usually, unless some kind of system can be built >to make free software a profitable business. Cygnus is an example of this; >I think there other alternatives like funds into which people can donate >money for a specific piece of free software to be built, like this specific >case, although in lack of suitable fund we need just to make promises. > >If the drivers are completed, within a year we will see which method turns >out to be the best. If cards supported by freely available drivers sell >more then than those with no freely available drivers, in FreeBSD >environment, we can make conclusions. Until that, we can only speculate. >Maybe we should drop -hackers off the receivers? Its not how much you sell, its how much you make on what you sell. Selling more is easy....just drop your prices. Economics 101. Overseas, freely-available has more value because there's a support problem for US-made products. I understand that. We usually give better deals to overseas dealers because of it. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 19:44:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA17622 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:44:04 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA17617 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:43:59 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08508; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:00:57 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:00:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230300.XAA08508@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kim Culhan From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I've been using a pair of Adtran ISU128's for some time, they do both >sync and async; I'm not tellin' which I'm using :) > >I do have one complaint though. The async interfaces have TTL voltage >levels though they supply these little 'adapters' labeled to >suggest they convert the RS530 async. connections to RS232. > They can't exactly do this, because EIA-530 is synchronous RS-422 (balanced) and RS-232 is unbalanced, so they have to do signal conversion. They probably default to RS-232 for async and run EIA-530 for sync. I doubt if RS-232 would work at RS-422 levels at higher speeds as RS-232 is only spec'ed for 20k anyway. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 19:50:08 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA17902 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:50:08 -0700 Received: from blob.best.net (blob.best.net [204.156.128.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA17895 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:50:02 -0700 Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA07543; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:49:55 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04734; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:47:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199510230247.TAA04734@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:33:16 EDT." <199510230233.WAA08448@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 19:47:24 -0700 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk There is a weird irony in this argument, given the fact that the OS is "FreeBSD", and consider what that "Free" in the name was supposed to mean, though it is lost on many. And, I guess I'll point out that it doesn't take a lot of time spent surfing http://www.bsdi.com to realize that sometimes "free" drivers work a lot better, and get to the users a *lot* faster... These are not very new differences of ah opinion, maybe it's up to each entity to decide what they want to do, but I don't know why it's important to thrash them here. Best regards, Russell > >> > >> > >> >BTW, I have a $1000 (minus possible taxes) reward available for the author > >> >of a free driver for a commonly available synchronous serial card like SDL, > >> >ET or Arnet. Ie. sources available and non-restrictive license (preferably > >> >both GPL and Berkey to allow it to be included both in Linux and *BSD*). > >> >Need to talk to ciscos (that is what usually is in the other end). Needs > >> > >> Add two 0's to this number and we can talk. > >> > >> We'll have it as part of our product very shortly, but....for the reasons > >> that you just stated, no "right to steal" licenses available. > >I do understand the fact that you've put so much work into your > >product's software.. > >but do you really think that if it were released in source, that it > >would negatively impact your sales? > >This is a serious question.. > >what do you think would happen? > >My expectation is that it would immediatly be ported to Lynx , OS9, > >and other OS's and become an industry standard.. not > >a bad place to be really. > > The technologies that we have (Frame Relay, X.25 sync PPP, etc) would > immediately be ported to less expensive boards, creating a price war > over hardware since none of you care about anything but cost. If it became > very popular then others would build similar boards.It wouldn't create any > markets, > since no-one uses a T1 board if they don't need it. No serious commercial > venture would use it anyway, because these types of products aren't like modems. > You need support, and no-one is going to bet their business on a driver > maintained by > some weeny part-time programmer in lower Mongolia. You also need a program, > and FreeBSD > doesn't have one. > > >. Have you considered releaseinf drivers for > >some small part of your product line as an experiment and watching > >what happens? > > I've considered releasing a "freeware" source version of our board drivers.... > No Frame Relay, No X.25, No Sync PPP, No Utilities).....but what is there to > gain? We're already > selling boards faster than we can build them. Who wants to sell 1,000 boards > at (Jordan's price > of) $150.? I believe that it would result in the cannabilization of the > business I already have. People > willing to pay will get it cheaper, and the really cheap and stupid will > still go out and buy $700. junk > routers (or soup up their async boards to do higher speeds!) > > In 1991, Western Digital was selling 20,000 Ethernet boards a month, which > was unbelievable at the time. Whats more unbelivable is that they were losing > money. > > Communism failed for a reason, you know. > > db > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com > > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 20:11:50 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA18524 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:11:50 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18518 ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:11:46 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08599; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:28:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:28:54 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230328.XAA08599@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan spouts... >I think we're arguing at cross purposes. I'm talking about what the end-user wants and >you're telling me what they SHOULD want and, in Dennis's ideal world, would want. Sorry, >but you clearly haven't been a user in nearly long enough to have informed opinions about >that anymore - you have a high speed sync serial "hammer" and now you insist that >everything looks like a nail. You're just wrong about everything. I think that its pretty funny that you think that you have more perspective than I do. The only perspective that you have thats better than mine is that you seem to be poor....and yes, I don't remember that very well. I am a user, and I've been a user more than anyone, and I've also been in the market and seen what my customers are doing. I dial-up from home, and I maintain the router at ET. People buy what is presented to them....if they understood the choices they would buy sync 128k. But they don't understand the choices so they buy whats cheap. They don't understand the choices and neither do the ISPs. Datacomm in this country is a freaking mess........Anyone wants to be an ISP on LI give me a call.... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 20:15:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA18672 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:15:45 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA18667 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:15:41 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA08606; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:32:38 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:32:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199510230332.XAA08606@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Russell L. Carter" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: ISDN: Sync vs Async. Was: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >There is a weird irony in this argument, given the fact that >the OS is "FreeBSD", and consider what that "Free" in the name was >supposed to mean, though it is lost on many. > >And, I guess I'll point out that it doesn't take a lot of time >spent surfing http://www.bsdi.com to realize that sometimes >"free" drivers work a lot better, and get to the users a *lot* >faster... > Of course BSDI wrote, maintains and supports their sync drivers and recommends ours as an alternative. They don't support or specifically recommend freeware.....and BSD/OS is NOT freeware. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 20:38:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA19202 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:38:45 -0700 Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA19191 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 20:38:38 -0700 Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA26908; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:38:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:38:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Kim Culhan To: dennis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. In-Reply-To: <199510230300.XAA08508@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 22 Oct 1995, dennis wrote: > > > >I've been using a pair of Adtran ISU128's for some time, they do both > >sync and async; I'm not tellin' which I'm using :) > > > >I do have one complaint though. The async interfaces have TTL voltage > >levels though they supply these little 'adapters' labeled to > >suggest they convert the RS530 async. connections to RS232. > > > > They can't exactly do this, because EIA-530 is synchronous RS-422 (balanced) > and RS-232 is unbalanced, so they have to do signal conversion. They > probably default to RS-232 for async and run EIA-530 for sync. I doubt if > RS-232 would work at RS-422 levels at higher speeds as RS-232 is only > spec'ed for 20k anyway. Its async with TTL voltage levels. > > Dennis > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Right. Thats my point, they may not work at _all_ connected just to any 'RS232' device. They will work with some 'typical' RS232 interfaces. They're very good units, what with their v.35 interfaces, very flexible. When we took these out of service from the v.35 interfaces, we wanted to put 'em back in service using more common async. ports in another application but..lets just say I was sold these units by a certain Florida reseller who didn't return my call[s] about this issue; caveat emptor. I still like 'em alot, the designers didn't get to choose the sales organization. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 21:12:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id VAA20467 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:12:04 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA20457 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 21:11:52 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA11146; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:08:11 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:08:11 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510230408.OAA11146@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, mbailey@cps.cmich.edu Subject: Re: SNAP 951020 Kernel compile problems. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> You need to have IDE controller support - the "wdc0/wd0" entries were >> apparantly removed. >The LINT file says the two lines are required. There is nothing stating >you need to have a controller. Some of use SCSI hard Drives this is not >all that obvious. I think a little note in the LINT makefile would be >advisable. It's the same as for SCSI. Specifying sd0 without specifying a SCSI controller won't work. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 22:22:09 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA22169 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:22:09 -0700 Received: from subnet.sub.net (root@subnet.sub.net [192.101.75.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id WAA22164 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 22:22:05 -0700 Received: from ud.dinoex.sub.org (root@localhost) by subnet.sub.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id GAA07949 for freebsd.org!freebsd-hackers; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 06:21:26 +0100 Received: from phase23.dinoex.sub.org by ud.dinoex.sub.org with uucp (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #14) id m0t74rA-000JiRC; Sun, 22 Oct 95 19:10 MET Received: from citylink.dinoex.sub.org by phase23.dinoex.sub.org with uucp (CY Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0t723c-0005KkC; Sun, 22 Oct 95 16:11 MET From: peter@citylink.dinoex.sub.org (Peter Much) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:03:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199510200003.BAA14324@citylink.dinoex.sub.org> Received: by citylink.dinoex.sub.org (8.6.12 FreeBSD-1/PMuch) id BAA14324; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:03:39 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: modf.S (in libc.a): stack access fault Summary: ingres cannot handle float values Reply-To: admin@citylink.dinoex.sub.org Organization: Buero fuer Sektenforschung und Qualitaetspruefung in der Esoterik Keywords: ingres float exception modf() libc Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The funktion modf() (in libc.a, from lib/libc/i386/gen/modf.S) seems to dismangle the program stack. This is the reason why ingres cannot handle float values with FreeBSD (and other OS's - i reported that here, somewhen about May). If linked with lib/msun/src/s_modf.c instead, it does work. A friend of mine had already reported this bug to Borland/Heimsoeth years ago - so it was obviously not the latest version of the Borland compiler library that made it into FreeBSD.:-(( To reproduce the error, try the following code: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- #include main() { double arg = 0.0, fj; int i; char *p, buf[21]; p = buf; for(i=0; i < 20; i++) { arg *= 10; (void)modf(arg, &fj); arg -= fj; *p++ = (int)fj + '0'; } *p = '\0'; printf("%s\n", buf); } ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It crashes with i=7. I don't know math-copro-assembler, so i cannot debug this. Peter P.S: Anybody wanting the ingres patches to build a port? -- Write to: Peter Much * Koelnische Str. 22 * D-34117 Kassel * +49-561-774961 peter@citylink.dinoex.sub.org * much@hrz.uni-kassel.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 22 23:26:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id XAA23856 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:26:48 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA23851 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:26:44 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA15714; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:25:25 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:25:25 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510230625.QAA15714@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, peter@citylink.dinoex.sub.org Subject: Re: modf.S (in libc.a): stack access fault Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The funktion modf() (in libc.a, from lib/libc/i386/gen/modf.S) seems to >dismangle the program stack. This is the reason why ingres cannot handle >float values with FreeBSD (and other OS's - i reported that here, somewhen >about May). If linked with lib/msun/src/s_modf.c instead, it does work. >To reproduce the error, try the following code: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >#include >main() >{ > double arg = 0.0, fj; > int i; > char *p, buf[21]; > p = buf; > for(i=0; i < 20; i++) { > arg *= 10; > (void)modf(arg, &fj); > arg -= fj; > *p++ = (int)fj + '0'; > } > *p = '\0'; > printf("%s\n", buf); >} >---------------------------------------------------------------------- $ cc -Wall prog.c prog.c:4: warning: return-type defaults to `int' prog.c: In function `main': prog.c:12: warning: implicit declaration of function `modf' prog.c:18: warning: control reaches end of non-void function `modf' is not declared and so the compiler has to assume that it returns `int'. Since it actually returns double, the behaviour is undefined. `modf' is declared in include to fix the problem. The actual behaviour when the modf() in libc.a is called under FreeBSD is that each call leaves a double on the floating point stack. On the 8th call, the stack has 7 registers full of junk so there is no space for the 2 registers used by modf() and a stack exception occurs. Under FreeBSD, stack exceptions are trapped, so a SIGFPE is generated on the next floating point instruction after the one for which the stack exception was recorded. The behaviour when the modf() in libm.a is called should be similar. It is the same here. The math routines in lib/libc/i386/gen (fabs, frexp, ldexp and modf) are of lower quality than the ones in lib/msun/src and probably shouldn't exist. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 00:51:37 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id AAA25556 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 00:51:37 -0700 Received: from ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (linux1.dlsu.edu.ph [165.220.8.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA25546 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 00:50:45 -0700 Received: by ccslinux.dlsu.edu.ph (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #13) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk id m0t7HT6-000A5cC; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:38 GMT+0800 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:38:47 +48000 From: Gavin Lim Subject: /proc file system To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We have FreeBSD 2.0.5. We're designing a process migration facility and it seems that the /proc file system would be very useful to us. What documentation is there to program /proc? What are the file formats? Thanks! Hope to hear from you guys as soon as possible. ============================================================================== Gavin Lim Gavin@linux1.dlsu.edu.ph ============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 01:51:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 01:51:30 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27614 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 01:51:22 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA20756; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 18:50:30 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 18:50:30 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510230850.SAA20756@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: What is the best way... Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >...to implement something similar to the xxx_poll() driver entry >points in SysV? >For those whod don't know, these entries are supposed to be called on >each clock tick (at spl6, i think this is `soft clock'), and they are >useful for devices that lose interrupts, or that don't even have an >interrupt of its own. I prefer periodic timeouts (standard timeouts that get repeated automatically). >The closest thing one could do (besides from the approach e.g. >pcaudio is using, which i consider being overkill as a poll() >replacement) were to continuously re-issue yet another timeout on each >clock tick. However, since that would cause timeout() to walk the >entire timer queue, it's rather expensive. timeout() seems to be fairly inexpensive at least when the queue is short. I've thought of having separate queues for periodic timeouts at frequencies hz, hz/10, hz/100, ... but timeouts can be dispatched more efficiently from a single delta queue than from multiple queues. If timeout() is too slow then I think effort would be better spent speeding it up, perhaps by using binary search. It's surprising how many improvement possibilities there are for something as basic as timeouts. Other possibilities: 1) high resolution timeouts (vary the clock's maximum count so that clock interrupts occur when you want them, not periodically). Heavy use of periodic timeouts would defeat optimization possibilities here (reprogramming the clock isn't free but you could hope to gain by taking less interrupts. Periodic interrupts would have to be simulated and ones at frequency `hz' would cost more than now). 2) timeouts that act at higher ipls. Currently, timeouts can only occur at splsoftclock(). "Unimportant" hardware activity such as IDE disk transfers can delay timeouts by several clock ticks. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 01:52:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id BAA27691 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 01:52:23 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA27674 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 01:52:10 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA02381 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 18:17:44 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510230847.SAA02381@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: New userconfig To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 18:17:44 +0930 (CST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1895 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, time to ruffle the feathers again 8) In my quest to make the 'visual' userconfig as snuggly and friendly as possible, I'd like to request a boon of the directional philosophers. The background : In order to meaninfully interpret the values assigned the basic ISA device parameters, I currently make the following assumptions : If a parameter is -1, the driver does not use the parameter. It is never relevant, and is never consulted. If a parameter is -2, the driver has a compiled-in default for this parameter, but the default can be overridden by setting the value to another value. Currently, of course, this doesn't happen. It could be argued that it should never happen, either, but until a device registration scheme is in place that provides a better technique, this is it. Joerg has kindly provided details for modifying config(8) to recognise 'auto' and 'none' as alternatives to '?'. I'd like to ask further for comments (and advice) on setting the _default_ for nonspecified parameters to 'none' (-1), rather than the currently ambiguous state (some -1, some 0). Arguments about whether -1 and -2 map to "legit" parameter values should be accompanied by examples of _ISA_ hardware that live at such addresses, or have such aperture sizes, and are at all likely to be supported by FreeBSD. ++++ Julian, specifically to you, and generally to anyone else working on device driver registration issues - is there a "better way", that takes advantage of the devfs concept/support/etc? -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 02:07:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id CAA28594 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 02:07:24 -0700 Received: from annax.tky.hut.fi (annax.tky.hut.fi [130.233.32.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA28582 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 02:07:19 -0700 Received: from pooh.tky.hut.fi (root@pooh.tky.hut.fi [130.233.33.233]) by annax.tky.hut.fi (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA10192 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:04:46 +0200 Received: by pooh.tky.hut.fi (LAA02663); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:07:15 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:07:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199510230907.LAA02663@pooh.tky.hut.fi> From: "Timo J. Rinne" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Julian Elischer's message of 21 Oct 1995 06:23:57 +0200 Subject: A quick vote on pthreads PLZ Reply-to: tri@iki.fi Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Otakaari 1, 02150 ESPOO, Finland Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian wrote: > A/port/package > B/new base part of the system? I vote for B, but I'd really like to see real kernel threads. Regards, //Rinne From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 03:07:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA01349 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:17 -0700 Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id DAA01340 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:12 -0700 Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <15335-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:05:37 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA13996; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:57:08 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id TAA22795; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:53:21 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:53:21 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199510230953.TAA22795@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: Steven Wallace cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: SYSCALL IDEAS [Was: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sysv_msg.c sysv_sem.c sysv_shm.c] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Steven Wallace wrote: >> semsys() and shmsys() syscall interfaces are BAD because they >> multiplex several syscalls that have different types of args. >> There was no reason to duplicate this sysv braindamage but now >> we're stuck with it. NetBSD has reimplemented the syscalls properly >> as separate syscalls #220-231. >> >I agree. This is yucky! > >We need a better way to handle these syscall subcodes (as SYSV calls 'em). Is it not true that this System V stuff can be written as library routines that use BSD facilities such as mmap() and sockets? I would be happy to see the effort expended this way so that I can keep my kernel free of such cruft. Stephen McKay. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 03:07:57 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA01418 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:57 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA01409 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:54 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA12962; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:48 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: ache@freebsd.org Subject: Grrr! Startslip ate my brain! Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <12960.814442868@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, OK, maybe it just nibbled a bit at the corners.. OK, OK, it didn't eat my brain at all! I just said that to get your attention. What it *DID* do, however, was totally fail to negotiate header compression! I was talking to David tonite about the slattach -c flag as opposed to -a, and it occured to me to check which form of VJ header compression I was using. Imagine my horror to find out that I haven't been using *any* form of compression up to now (no wonder my interactive performance didn't feel quite as fast as I thought it should!) and switching back to good old kermit + slattach had me working just peachy again. So my question is this: How do you select VJ compression options with startslip? Can we add this? I really like the simplicity that startslip affords me, but I can't really afford to have header compression not work - I do too much interactive work on freefall. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 03:52:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id DAA02825 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:52:41 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id DAA02819 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:52:35 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA24992; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:37:17 +1000 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:37:17 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510231037.UAA24992@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: New userconfig Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >In order to meaninfully interpret the values assigned the basic ISA >device parameters, I currently make the following assumptions : >If a parameter is -1, the driver does not use the parameter. It is never >relevant, and is never consulted. >If a parameter is -2, the driver has a compiled-in default for this parameter, >but the default can be overridden by setting the value to another value. Note that userconfig can't use special values to decide which values can be changed, since it needs to be able to change to and from all values. Currently unadvertised driver capablities determine which values actually make sense. The -1 and -2 above are back to front. -1 has always meant `?' (autoconfig). There is a special rule for this in config/lang.l. Drivers should never use compiled in defaults for this, but they may use values read from firmware. >Joerg has kindly provided details for modifying config(8) to recognise >'auto' and 'none' as alternatives to '?'. I'd like to ask further for >comments (and advice) on setting the _default_ for nonspecified parameters >to 'none' (-1), rather than the currently ambiguous state (some -1, some 0). `none' is a verbose alternative to `'. I think nonspecified parameters always have a value of -1 except in cases where 0 is more natural (for pointers and bitmaps). >Julian, specifically to you, and generally to anyone else working on device >driver registration issues - is there a "better way", that takes advantage >of the devfs concept/support/etc? I think you'll eventually have to modify device tables in 1001 drivers. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 04:19:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id EAA04063 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:19:45 -0700 Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id EAA04058 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:19:33 -0700 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA02636; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:44:26 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199510231114.UAA02636@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: New userconfig To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:44:25 +0930 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au In-Reply-To: <199510231037.UAA24992@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Oct 23, 95 08:37:17 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1975 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > Note that userconfig can't use special values to decide which values can be > changed, since it needs to be able to change to and from all values. > Currently unadvertised driver capablities determine which values actually > make sense. Given that the driver parameters are unadvertised, special values have to be used, unless you care to suggest an alternative form of telepathy. > The -1 and -2 above are back to front. -1 has always meant `?' > (autoconfig). There is a special rule for this in config/lang.l. No problem; I'll use -1 for auto, and -2 for none. The distinction needs to be made either way. > Drivers should never use compiled in defaults for this, but they may use > values read from firmware. Some drivers, as has already been established, need to use compiled-in defaults in order to function usefully in this imperfect world 8( > `none' is a verbose alternative to `'. I think nonspecified parameters > always have a value of -1 except in cases where 0 is more natural (for > pointers and bitmaps). Is anything specific going to break if nonspecified parameters become -2, rather than -1? > I think you'll eventually have to modify device tables in 1001 drivers. Indeed; however before I commit bloody murder on the statically defined device attributes, I'd like some input from those with a little more experience 8) (I'd also like some reassurance that I can 'make world' -current from -stable and have a reasonable chance of getting somewhere, so that I can get in step with the current state of the art) > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] My car has "demand start" -Terry Lambert UNIX: live FreeBSD or die! [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 05:19:07 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id FAB04837 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 05:19:07 -0700 Received: from mtc.relinfo.mari.su (relay.relinfo.mari.su [193.124.110.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id FAA04829 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 05:18:16 -0700 Received: by mtc.relinfo.mari.su id AA29349 (5.65/IDA-simtel for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:22:28 +0300 Message-Id: <199510231222.AA29349@mtc.relinfo.mari.su> From: news-service@mtc.relinfo.mari.su (News Mailing Service) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: reply from USENET server Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:22:28 GMT Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Relcom News Server, version 2.8.0.18 Copyright (C) 1991-1994 Serge Vakulenko Modifications 1993 Aleksei Rudnev Mon Oct 23 15:22:28 1995 --On ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP/floppies --These fix many reported problems.. Thanks for the feedback, folks, --and please keep it coming! Every bug fixed now is one less we'll have --for 2.1. You are not registered on this server -- Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 07:17:36 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA07882 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:17:36 -0700 Received: from nanolon.gun.de (nanolon.gun.de [192.109.159.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA07877 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:17:25 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by nanolon.gun.de (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) id PAA10461 for freebsd.org!hackers; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:12:55 +0100 Received: from wup.de by wup-gate with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0t7Nfn-0007rLC; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:16 MET Received: from sunny.wup.de by wup.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10048; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:04:57 +0100 Received: by sunny.wup.de (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00655; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:08:40 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:08:40 +0100 From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <9510231408.AA00655@sunny.wup.de> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: (fwd) CERT Advisory CA-95:13 - Syslog Vulnerability (with sendmail workaround) Newsgroups: comp.security.announce Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! Do you know this CERET Advisory already ?! Strange for me, that a Linux version with a certain libc release is 1. proofed by CERT and 2. mentioned to be secure and FreeBSD isn't mentioned ..... what does it mean ... a) CERT doesn't test FreeBSD ? b) FreeBSD still has the mentioned security hole ? Regards Andreas /// Newsgroups: comp.security.announce Path: wup-gate.wup.de!news.gun.de!genesis.westend.com!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.dfn.de!scsing.switch.ch!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!cert-advisory From: CERT Advisory Subject: CERT Advisory CA-95:13 - Syslog Vulnerability (with sendmail workaround) Message-ID: <1995Oct19.140427.10159@sei.cmu.edu> Originator: cert-advisory@why.cert.org Keywords: security CERT Sender: netnews@sei.cmu.edu (Netnews) Reply-To: cert-advisory-request@cert.org Organization: CERT Coordination Center - 412-268-7090 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 14:04:27 EDT Approved: cert-advisory@cert.org Lines: 363 ============================================================================= CA-95:13 CERT Advisory October 19, 1995 Syslog Vulnerability - A Workaround for Sendmail ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The CERT Coordination Center has received reports of problems with the syslog(3) subroutine. To the best of our current knowledge, the problem is present in virtually all versions of the UNIX Operating System except the following: Sony's NEWS-OS 6.X SunOS 5.5 (Solaris 2.5) Linux with libc version 4.7.2, released May 1995 We have received reports indicating that the vulnerability is being exploited with a script that has been written to be used with sendmail. This advisory includes a workaround that you can use with sendmail. It *does not* include workarounds for any other programs that use the syslog(3) subroutine--telnetd, ftpd, httpd, etc. The CERT Coordination Center recommends installing all appropriate syslog-related patches as soon as they are available from vendors. But, in the meantime, we suggest addressing at least the syslog problem in sendmail by installing sendmail version 8.7.1. We are aware that several workarounds concerning the syslog vulnerability have been published on the Internet, but the CERT staff has not formally evaluated them. As we receive additional information relating to this advisory, we will place it in ftp://info.cert.org/pub/cert_advisories/CA-95:13.README We encourage you to check our README files regularly for updates on advisories that relate to your site. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I. Description The syslog(3) subroutine uses an internal buffer for building messages that are sent to the syslogd(8) daemon. This subroutine does no range checking on data stored in this buffer. It is possible to overflow the internal buffer and rewrite the subroutine call stack. It is then possible to execute arbitrary programs. This problem is present in virtually all versions of the UNIX Operating System except the following: Sony's NEWS-OS 6.X SunOS 5.5 (Solaris 2.5) Linux with libc version 4.7.2 released in May, 1995 The sendmail(8) program uses the syslog(3) subroutine, and a script has been written and is being used to exploit the vulnerability. II. Impact Local and remote users can execute commands. Prior access to the system is not needed. Exploitation can lead to root access. III. Solution We recommend that you do all of A, B, and C. A. Install syslog patches from your vendor when they become available. Information we received from vendors as of the date of this advisory is attached as Appendix A and reproduced in CA-95:13.README. We will update the README file as vendors send updated information. When you install patches, you will need to recompile/relink any programs built on your system that have been compiled without shared libraries, that is, compiled statically. Be especially careful of programs that contain their own versions of the syslog(3) subroutine. You may need to do significant extra work to compile those programs to use the vendor-supplied patches. B. Install sendmail version 8.7.1. NOTE: This workaround addresses the syslog(3) vulnerability in sendmail only. The vulnerability still exists in all other programs that use syslog(3). When your vendor(s) provides a patch, we recommend that you rebuild sendmail version 8.7.1 with the patched syslog(3) and place that newly compiled version into service. Sendmail is available by anonymous FTP from ftp://info.cert.org/pub/tools/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.auscert.org.au/pub/mirrors/ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.cert.dfn.de/pub/tools/net/sendmail/ Checksum: MD5 (sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z) = 4a66d07a059d1d5af5e9ea53ff1b396a Depending upon your currently installed sendmail program, switching to a different sendmail may require significant effort (such as rewriting the sendmail.cf file). See Section VI for additional notes on installation. In addition, Sections IV and V below contain scripts for building sendmail 8.7.1 for SunOS 4.1.X and Solaris 2.X, respectively. C. Install smrsh. To restrict the sendmail program mailer facility, install and use the sendmail restricted shell program (smrsh). We recommend that you do this regardless of whether you use the vendor's supplied sendmail or you install sendmail version 8.7.1. Smrsh is now included in the sendmail 8.7.1 distribution in the subdirectory smrsh. See the RELEASE_NOTES file for a description of how to integrate smrsh into your sendmail configuration file. IV. Building this package for SunOS 4.1.X Here is a script that is given as an illustration of how to build sendmail 8.7.1 for SunOS 4.1.X. Please refer to READ_ME in the src subdirectory for a more complete explanation of other options available during the compilation process. % uname -sr SunOS 4.1.2 % ls sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z % zcat sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z | tar xf - % cd sendmail-8.7.1/src % ./makesendmail LIBS='-lresolv' DBMDEF='-DNDBM -DNIS' \ INCDIRS= LIBDIRS= sendmail Configuration: os=SunOS, rel=4.1.2, rbase=4, arch=sun4, sfx= Creating obj.SunOS.4.1.2.sun4 using Makefile.SunOS Making dependencies in obj.SunOS.4.1.2.sun4 Making in obj.SunOS.4.1.2.sun4 ... See Section VI for final installation steps. V. Building this package for Solaris 2.X Here is a typescript that is given as an illustration for how to build sendmail 8.7.1 for Solaris 2.X. Note that this procedure assumes that you have the GNU gcc system. The examples below used gcc version 2.6.3. Again, please refer to READ_ME in the src sub-directory for a more complete explanation of other options available during the compilation process. % uname -sr SunOS 5.4 % ls sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z % zcat sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z | tar xf - % cd sendmail-8.7.1/src % ./makesendmail LIBS='-lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lelf' \ INCDIRS= LIBDIRS= sendmail Configuration: os=SunOS, rel=5.4, rbase=5, arch=sun4, sfx= Creating obj.SunOS.5.4.sun4 using Makefile.SunOS.5.4 Making dependencies in obj.SunOS.5.4.sun4 ... Note: If you wish sendmail version 8.7.1 to use the aliases and configuration file directory conventions from SunOS 5.4, use the following command: ./makesendmail LIBS='-lresolv -lsocket -lnsl -lelf' \ ENVDEF='-DSOLARIS=204 -DUSE_VENDOR_CF_PATH' INCDIRS= \ LIBDIRS= sendmail VI. Final Installation Notes Sendmail can then be installed and configured with new configuration files as needed. We strongly recommend that if you change to sendmail 8.7.1, you also change to the configuration files that are provided with that version. Significant work has been done to make this task easier. It is now possible to build a sendmail configuration file (sendmail.cf) using the configuration files provided with this release. Consult the cf/READ_ME file for a more complete explanation. We recommended that you create your configuration files using this method because it provides a technique for incorporating any future changes to sendmail into your configuration files. In addition, we recommend that you recreate your configuration file (sendmail.cf) using the configuration files provided with 8.7.1. Finally, for Sun users, a paper is available to help you convert your sendmail configuration files from the Sun version of sendmail to one that works with version 8.7.1. The paper is entitled "Converting Standard Sun Config Files to Sendmail Version 8" and was written by Rick McCarty of Texas Instruments Inc. It is included in the distribution and is located in contrib/converting.sun.configs. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The CERT Coordination Center staff thanks Eric Allman and Wolfgang Ley for their involvement in the development of this advisory, and thanks Karl Strickland and Neil Woods for reporting the vulnerability. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you believe that your system has been compromised, contact the CERT Coordination Center or your representative in the Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST). If you wish to send sensitive incident or vulnerability information to CERT staff by electronic mail, we strongly advise that the email be encrypted. The CERT Coordination Center can support a shared DES key, PGP (public key available via anonymous FTP on info.cert.org), or PEM (contact CERT staff for details). Internet email: cert@cert.org Telephone: +1 412-268-7090 (24-hour hotline) CERT personnel answer 8:30 a.m.-5:00 p.m. EST(GMT-5)/EDT(GMT-4), and are on call for emergencies during other hours. Fax: +1 412-268-6989 Postal address: CERT Coordination Center Software Engineering Institute Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890 USA CERT advisories and bulletins are posted on the USENET newsgroup comp.security.announce. If you would like to have future advisories and bulletins mailed to you or to a mail exploder at your site, please send mail to cert-advisory-request@cert.org. Past CERT publications, information about FIRST representatives, and other information related to computer security are available for anonymous FTP from info.cert.org. Copyright 1995 Carnegie Mellon University This material may be reproduced and distributed without permission provided it is used for noncommercial purposes and the copyright statement is included. CERT is a service mark of Carnegie Mellon University. .............................................................................. Appendix A: Vendor Information Current as of October 19, 1995 See CA-95.13.README for updated information. Below is information we have received from vendors concerning the vulnerability described in this advisory. If you do not see your vendor's name, please contact the vendor directly for information. In addition to vendor information, note that the freely available Linux with libc version 4.7.2, released May 1995, is not vulnerable. -------------------- Eric Allman Sendmail version 8.7.1 is not vulnerable. This version is available by anonymous FTP from ftp://info.cert.org/pub/tools/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.auscert.org.au/pub/mirrors/ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/ucb/sendmail/ ftp://ftp.cert.dfn.de/pub/tools/net/sendmail/ Checksum: MD5 (sendmail.8.7.1.tar.Z) = 4a66d07a059d1d5af5e9ea53ff1b396a -------------------- Berkeley Software Design, Inc. Users of BSD/OS V2.0 and V2.0.1 by Berkeley Software Design, Inc. should install patch U201-001 which works for both versions. The patch is available to all BSDI customers in: ftp://ftp.bsdi.com/bsdi/patches/ md5 checksum: 88b3fd8c83a5926589d7b87b55bc4e14 -------------------- Cray Research Information about fixes for the syslog problem can be found in FN #2011, dated October 10, 1995. Customers should receive this information from their Cray Research service representative. For all source installations, your Cray Research service representative can obtain the fix via the getfix tool. Due to the number of executables which use this library routine, it is not possible to provide getfix packages for all binary installations. UNICOS binary update packages 8.0.4.2 and 9.0.1.2 include this mod. FIX AVAILABILITY ---------------- Release Level Fix Package Affected Product Containing Fix Availability ================ ============== =========== UNICOS 8.0 UNICOS 8.0.4.2 * source only UNICOS 8.3 ** source only UNICOS 9.0 UNICOS 9.0.1.2 * source only * This update is not yet available. ** No more updates planned -------------------- Digital Equipment Corporation At the time of writing this document, patches(binary kits) for Digital's ULTRIX platforms are in final testing and packaging. V4.3 (both VAX and RISC) thru V4.5. Similar patches(binary kits) for OSF/1 versions are in progress and testing is expected to begin the week of October 23, 1995 and then packaged for Customer distribution estimated to available in November. Digital will provide notice of the completion of the kits through AES services (DIA, DSNlink FLASH) and be available from your normal Digital Support channel. Digital's Software Security Response Team 10/18/95 -------------------- Open Software Foundation OSF cannot reproduce the security hole in OSF/1. However we have reproduced the problem with syslog(3). We have a fix for the syslog(3) problem. Support customers should contact OSF for the fix. The fix will be included in the OSF/1 R1.3.2 update release. -------------------- Silicon Graphics Inc. SGI has been in coordination with CERT regarding this issue. Specific SGI information was not complete before CERTs submission deadline for this advisory. SGI does have pending information and this information will be available via anonymous ftp (sgigate.sgi.com) and/or your SGI service provider and potential future CERT advisory addendums. -------------------- Solbourne (Grumman) Solbourne 2.5 is not vulnerable. -------------------- Sony Corporation NEWS-OS 6.0.3 and 6.1 are not vulnerable. -------------------- Sun Microsystems, Inc. SunOS 5.5 is not vulnerable. -- andreas@wup.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 07:53:22 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id HAA08932 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:53:22 -0700 Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id HAA08924 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:53:16 -0700 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA04819; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 00:51:31 +1000 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 00:51:31 +1000 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199510231451.AAA04819@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: New userconfig Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Note that userconfig can't use special values to decide which values can be >> changed, since it needs to be able to change to and from all values. >> Currently unadvertised driver capablities determine which values actually >> make sense. >Given that the driver parameters are unadvertised, special values have to be >used, unless you care to suggest an alternative form of telepathy. Given that there are no special values, sysconfig can't refuse to change any value. It must be possible to change from the "can't change" value to any value without dropping back to the command line userconfig (BTW, visuserconfig() always clears the screen and returns 1 so that it is impossible to drop back to the command line or see what you were doing if you could). >> Drivers should never use compiled in defaults for this, but they may use >> values read from firmware. >Some drivers, as has already been established, need to use compiled-in >defaults in order to function usefully in this imperfect world 8( They should be fixed. >Is anything specific going to break if nonspecified parameters become -2, >rather than -1? Probably not. grep 'iobase == ' in isa/*.c shows only a test against IOBASEUNK in NetBSD (?) code in aic6360.c. grep 'iobase <' shows some bogus insensitive tests in asc.c, gsc.c and lpt.c. These tests once broken when id_iobase was changed to an unsigned type like it should be. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 08:11:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA09500 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:11:04 -0700 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA09432 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:09:29 -0700 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA11912; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:09:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA15592; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:31:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199510231531.KAA15592@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Brian Litzinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux emulations how to? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 22 Oct 1995 02:45:03 PDT." <199510220945.CAA16433@MediaCity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:31:32 -0500 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I compiled a -current kernel with COMPAT_LINUX and booted it. > On Friday I spent a few minutes trying to make a linux_lib port which would ftp/install the proper linux libraries for linux-compat I couldn't get the slackware 2.3 libs to work. Then I found three different sets of libs on local machines here. I found this combination to work: ld.so libXaw.so.3 libXt.so.3.1.0 libgr.so.1 libm.so.4.5.26 libX11.so.3 libXaw.so.3.1.0 libc.so.4 libgr.so.1.3 libX11.so.3.1.0 libXt.so.3 libc.so.4.5.26 libm.so.4 But I'm thinking now it's more of an issue with ld.so than the libraries themselves. I'm still looking for a public ftp that has older linux libs, when I find something I'll finish out the linux library port. BTW, I've got linux ports of mapleV and Wingz (commercial demos), and I'll get a doom port when these library issues are fixed. > > -- > Brian Litzinger | | > brian@mediacity.com | This space intentionally left blank | > http://www.mpress.com | | > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 08:50:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA11250 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:47 -0700 Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA11235 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:42 -0700 Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA26347; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:54:24 -0400 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199510231154.HAA26347@hda.com> Subject: Re: What is the best way... To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510221818.TAA03456@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Oct 22, 95 07:18:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1178 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > ...to implement something similar to the xxx_poll() driver entry > points in SysV? > > For those whod don't know, these entries are supposed to be called on > each clock tick (at spl6, i think this is `soft clock'), and they are > useful for devices that lose interrupts, or that don't even have an > interrupt of its own. > > The closest thing one could do (besides from the approach e.g. > pcaudio is using, which i consider being overkill as a poll() > replacement) were to continuously re-issue yet another timeout on each > clock tick. However, since that would cause timeout() to walk the > entire timer queue, it's rather expensive. The special case of calling the function at every tick that you specify will be nice and fast, since timeout() only must adjust the tick delta based on those functions that will be called before the one you are installing is to be called. Fortunately, the faster the ticks are the less time is spent hunting through the queue for the insertion point. Peter -- Peter Dufault Real Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 08:56:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id IAA11558 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:56:19 -0700 Received: from fgate.flevel.co.uk (fgate.flevel.co.uk [194.6.101.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id IAA11553 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:56:11 -0700 Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by fgate.flevel.co.uk (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA05512; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:59:45 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:59:43 +0100 (BST) From: freebsd To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: freebsd@fgate.flevel.co.uk Subject: Lists and quotas Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I have two questions: 1) Where can I find a decent mailing list server for FreeBSD? 2) What is the format of the quota.user and quota.group files (I can't find it anywhere :) ) ? Thanks in advance. Graham Breach From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 09:36:24 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA12907 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:36:24 -0700 Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA12902 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:36:22 -0700 Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0t7PrJ-0003x8C; Mon, 23 Oct 95 09:36 PDT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA00411 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:36:20 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: phk@freebsd.org Subject: Help with japanese needed. Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:36:20 +0100 Message-ID: <409.814466180@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Check out this URL, and if you understand japanese, please: 1) translate it all... 2) find out if FreeBSD will run on it... 2) find out when & where I can buy one... http://www.ibm.co.jp/jpccinfo/thinkpad/palm_110 I gather as much as we are talking about a 715g palmtop with 260 Mb disk... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Just that: dried leaves in boiling water ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 09:48:00 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA13396 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:48:00 -0700 Received: from kryten.atinc.com (kryten.Atinc.COM [198.138.38.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13391 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:47:46 -0700 Received: (jmb@localhost) by kryten.atinc.com (8.6.9/8.3) id MAA26590; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:39:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:38:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Subject: Re: Lists and quotas To: freebsd cc: hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd@fgate.flevel.co.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, freebsd wrote: > 1) Where can I find a decent mailing list server for FreeBSD? use majordomo-1.92, the FreeBSD mailing lists do! change: /usr/local/bin/perl -> /usr/bin/perl /usr/lib/sendmail -> /usr/sbin/sendmail and in the unlink() calls in resend, bracket the arg with < and > in place of " and ". (a bug in majordomo-1.92 that causes files to accumlate in /tmp) Jonathan M. Bresler jmb@kryten.atinc.com | Analysis & Technology, Inc. FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.Org | 2341 Jeff Davis Hwy play go. | Arlington, VA 22202 ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life | 703-418-2800 x346 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 09:54:18 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA13530 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:54:18 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id JAA13517 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:54:13 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA21856; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:56:02 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:56:02 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199510231656.KAA21856@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Eric L. Hernes" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux emulations how to? In-Reply-To: <199510231531.KAA15592@jake.lodgenet.com> References: <199510220945.CAA16433@MediaCity.com> <199510231531.KAA15592@jake.lodgenet.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Friday I spent a few minutes trying to make a linux_lib port > which would ftp/install the proper linux libraries for linux-compat > I couldn't get the slackware 2.3 libs to work. Then I found > three different sets of libs on local machines here. I found > this combination to work: > > ld.so > libXaw.so.3 > libXt.so.3.1.0 > libgr.so.1 > libm.so.4.5.26 > libX11.so.3 > libXaw.so.3.1.0 > libc.so.4 > libgr.so.1.3 > libX11.so.3.1.0 > libXt.so.3 > libc.so.4.5.26 > libm.so.4 > > But I'm thinking now it's more of an issue with ld.so than > the libraries themselves. My experience has been that the linux emulator doesn't work unless the libraries AND the ld.so program are ZMAGIC executables. The emulator seems to work fine running QMAGIC executables, but not when the libraries or run-time linker is that format. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 09:59:13 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id JAA13742 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:59:13 -0700 Received: from seattle.polstra.com (seattle.polstra.com [198.211.214.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA13737 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:59:08 -0700 Received: by seattle.polstra.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0t7QDC-000078C; Mon, 23 Oct 95 09:58 PDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 09:58 PDT From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) To: imp@village.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem with ptk-b8 .. ld problems already fixed? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to get pTk-p8 up and running on my FreeBSD 2.0 and got the > following error. Look familiar to anybody? > > ld.so: Undefined symbol "__XInitImageFuncPtrs" in perl:./blib/auto/Tk/Tk.so > > Tk.so looks to be referencing X11, but can't seem to find this in libX11, > even though it is in my copy (per nm output). I think the problem you're seeing is caused by a combination of an old version of ld.so, and an improperly-built tk library. First I should confess that while I know a lot about ld.so, I don't know anything about pTk-p8. So I'm flying half blind here. But it looks like "./blib/auto/Tk/Tk.so" is a shared object which perl is trying to load at runtime via dlopen(), and that's the assumption I'll use. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. First, the problem in ld.so. The version in 2.0.5 did not do so-called "cascade loading" properly. As an example, if Tk.so needs -ltk, and -ltk needs -lX11, ld.so should load -ltk and -lX11 automatically when it is called upon by dlopen() to load Tk.so. But it did not quite do that right in 2.0.5. The situation is improved in the version of ld.so that is in -current at the present time. It's still not 100% right, but it's usable anyway. It's definitely worth getting the latest version. (Actually, I think you must already have a more recent version. I'm pretty sure that the version of ld.so that came with 2.0.5 would have simply said "ld.so failed" rather than telling you about the undefined symbol.) Second, the problem in the "tk" library. How could ld.so possibly know that when it loads Tk.so that it will also need to load the other libraries such as -ltk and -lX11? The answer is that such "shared object dependencies" are recorded in the shared objects themselves. For example, when you build the "tk" library, you should do it something like this: ld -Bshareable ... -ltcl -lX11 The dependencies on the "tcl" and "X11" libraries are then recorded in the "tk" library itself, so that ld.so will know it has to load those other libraries too. The current "tk" library that is distributed with the FreeBSD packages wasn't built that way, and that's a problem. (I apologize for failing to bring this up with Satoshi Asami, our friendly ports czar. It's not his fault!) Actually, there's a third problem as well. The static linker "ld" has a bug, in that it doesn't detect some undefined symbols when building a shared library. Really, it should not be possible to even build the "tk" shared library without specifying the libraries it depends on in the "ld" command line. "ld" should complain about undefined symbols in that case. But it doesn't. I'm working on all these things, so please be patient. Meanwhile, I think you can work around your present problem by: * Installing an up-to-date version of "ld.so", and * Specifying "-ltk -ltcl -lX11" on the "ld" command line that you use to build "Tk.so". Please let me know if that doesn't work. John Polstra jdp@polstra.com Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 10:11:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id KAA14104 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:11:29 -0700 Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id KAA14074 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:09:33 -0700 Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA12884; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:09:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA19172; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:29:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199510231729.MAA19172@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: Nate Williams cc: "Eric L. Hernes" , hackers@freebsd.org, sos@freebsd.org Subject: Re: linux emulations how to? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:56:02 MDT." <199510231656.KAA21856@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:29:15 -0500 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > But I'm thinking now it's more of an issue with ld.so than > > the libraries themselves. > > My experience has been that the linux emulator doesn't work unless the > libraries AND the ld.so program are ZMAGIC executables. The emulator > seems to work fine running QMAGIC executables, but not when the > libraries or run-time linker is that format. > Yup, the set that works are all ZMAGIC. The ones that don't are mixtures of [QZ]MAGIC. I'll look for ZMAGIC's on the net (or maybe make a local-port) > > > Nate eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:03:55 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15252 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:03:55 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15247 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:03:45 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA01856; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:02:10 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510231802.NAA01856@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: NCR810/Barracuda Question To: smace@metal.ops.neosoft.com (Scott Mace) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:02:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510191527.KAA03934@metal.ops.neosoft.com> from "Scott Mace" at Oct 19, 95 10:27:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > } ncr1: targ 2? ERROR(80:100) (e-ab-2) (8/13)@(10d4:e000000) > > ^^^ > > handshake timeout > > > > } reg: da 10 0 13 47 8 2 1f 0 e 82 ab 80 0 3 0 > > > > Are you sure that there are excactly two terminators (i.e. is there > > possibly one on the Barracuda) ? > > I've seen similar problems if the terminiation power is coming from the > drive and is also coming from the card. I always set it up so the drive > gets term power from the bus, and have never had a problem. Nope, that's not it. The termination is religious, except that it's not a slick terminator. It works fine under DOS. It also works under the 102095 SNAP floppy (or at least it was able to newfs filesystems and the like). I would very much like to be able to install a new set of drivers without upgrading the OS. The machine in question is a production news server and taking it down is bad enough... doing an upgrade at the same time would be rather painful. Is there any way I could just upgrade the driver? (which files do I need?) Thanks for any suggestions, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:15:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15404 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:15:45 -0700 Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (news@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA15399 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:15:40 -0700 Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (sendmail) id CAA19128 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 02:15:23 +0800 (WST) Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 24 Oct 1995 02:14:48 +0800 From: peter@haywire.dialix.com (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: <46gm2o$ikl$1@haywire.DIALix.COM> Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <9510231408.AA00655@sunny.wup.de> Subject: Re: (fwd) CERT Advisory CA-95:13 - Syslog Vulnerability (with sendmail workaround) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk andreas@sunny.wup.de (Andreas Klemm) writes: >Hi ! >Do you know this CERET Advisory already ?! >Strange for me, that a Linux version with a certain libc release >is 1. proofed by CERT and 2. mentioned to be secure and >FreeBSD isn't mentioned ..... what does it mean ... > a) CERT doesn't test FreeBSD ? > b) FreeBSD still has the mentioned security hole ? >Regards > Andreas /// FreeBSD has fixed the hole, IMHO better than the others, but it used one of the advanced 4.4BSD stdio features to do it more securely (fwopen()/vfprintf() instead of umpteen strlen()/snprintf()). They covered FreeBSD/NetBSD (not by name) by saying: there are different patches available for other operating systems, but these have not been evaluated by cert, blah, blah. Both Free/NetBSD did it their own way. -Peter >-- >andreas@wup.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH >Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:24:59 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA15643 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:24:59 -0700 Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA15637 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:24:55 -0700 Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA03698 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:19:19 +0400 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Mon, 23 Oct 95 22:19:18 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.demos.ru (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA00591; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:10:28 +0300 To: hackers@freebsd.org, "Jordan K. Hubbard" References: <12960.814442868@time.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: <12960.814442868@time.cdrom.com>; from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:07:48 -0700 Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:10:28 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Grrr! Startslip ate my brain! Lines: 16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 749 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <12960.814442868@time.cdrom.com> Jordan K. Hubbard writes: >So my question is this: How do you select VJ compression options with >startslip? Can we add this? I really like the simplicity that >startslip affords me, but I can't really afford to have header >compression not work - I do too much interactive work on freefall. It is easy, all headers compression was selected via startup scripts, see examples/startslip/slup.sh for example. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:38:27 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA17156 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:38:27 -0700 Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA17142 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:38:14 -0700 Received: by Sysiphos id AA12365 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:33:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199510231833.AA12365@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:33:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: Joe Greco "Re: NCR810/Barracuda Question" (Oct 23, 13:02) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Joe Greco Subject: Re: NCR810/Barracuda Question Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Oct 23, 13:02, Joe Greco wrote: } Subject: Re: NCR810/Barracuda Question } > > } ncr1: targ 2? ERROR(80:100) (e-ab-2) (8/13)@(10d4:e000000) } > > ^^^ } > > handshake timeout } > > } > > } reg: da 10 0 13 47 8 2 1f 0 e 82 ab 80 0 3 0 } > > } > > Are you sure that there are excactly two terminators (i.e. is there } > > possibly one on the Barracuda) ? } > } > I've seen similar problems if the terminiation power is coming from the } > drive and is also coming from the card. I always set it up so the drive } > gets term power from the bus, and have never had a problem. } } Nope, that's not it. The termination is religious, except that it's not a } slick terminator. } } It works fine under DOS. It also works under the 102095 SNAP floppy (or at } least it was able to newfs filesystems and the like). } } I would very much like to be able to install a new set of drivers without } upgrading the OS. The machine in question is a production news server and } taking it down is bad enough... doing an upgrade at the same time would be } rather painful. Is there any way I could just upgrade the driver? (which } files do I need?) The driver is completely cointained in "/sys/pci/ncr.c". (There is a "ncrreg.h" file in the same directory, but that has not changed since March '95 ...) Just get a new "ncr.c" and rebuild your kernel. Let me know, if you encounter any problems. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/staff/esser/esser.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:39:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA17240 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:39:31 -0700 Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (sri.MT.net [204.94.231.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17234 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:39:25 -0700 Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA22178; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:41:13 -0600 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:41:13 -0600 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199510231841.MAA22178@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Netscape puzzle In-Reply-To: <199510231828.LAA11375@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199510202122.PAA15970@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199510231828.LAA11375@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: [ Netscape not working ] > Another potential datapoint: > > We are all aware of the bind/sendmail static data initialization shared > library changes, right? Refreh my memory. > The ones that Matt Day reported and provided patches for in both Linux > and BSD and to the package authors? I don't remember seeing it. Was in on the ports mailing list? Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 11:52:10 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id LAA17783 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:52:10 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA17538 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:46:38 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11356; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:25:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231825.LAA11356@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Netscape puzzle To: kaleb@x.org (Kaleb S. KEITHLEY) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:25:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510202133.RAA05549@exalt.x.org> from "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" at Oct 20, 95 05:33:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 668 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I had tried that and it didn't make any difference with the BSD 2.0b1, > I still got an "unable to open display" error. :-( I suggest compiling a program that does a: main() { printf( "DISPLAY is '%s'\n", getenv("DISPLAY")); } On a BSDI 2.0 system and running it on a FreeBSD box and seeing what you get. We already know there are differences in the way the environment code works, and you are highly dependeint on that code. Have you tried it with an explicit "-display" argument instead of relying on the environment? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:01:47 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18231 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:01:47 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18225 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:01:43 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA01971; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:01:00 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510231901.OAA01971@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: NCR810/Barracuda Question To: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:00:58 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510231833.AA12365@Sysiphos> from "Stefan Esser" at Oct 23, 95 07:33:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > } I would very much like to be able to install a new set of drivers without > } upgrading the OS. The machine in question is a production news server and > } taking it down is bad enough... doing an upgrade at the same time would be > } rather painful. Is there any way I could just upgrade the driver? (which > } files do I need?) > > The driver is completely cointained in "/sys/pci/ncr.c". > (There is a "ncrreg.h" file in the same directory, but > that has not changed since March '95 ...) > > Just get a new "ncr.c" and rebuild your kernel. Let me > know, if you encounter any problems. That doesn't quite work: daily-planet# make cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I/usr/include -DDAILY_PLANET -DI586_CPU -DOPEN_MAX=256 -DCHILD_MAX=256 -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY=15 -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -Di386 -DLOAD_ADDRESS=0xF0100000 ../../pci/ncr.c ../../pci/ncr.c: In function `ncr_attach': ../../pci/ncr.c:3447: warning: implicit declaration of function `scsi_alloc_bus' ../../pci/ncr.c:3447: warning: assignment makes pointer from integer without a cast ../../pci/ncr.c:3453: structure has no member named `maxtarg' ../../pci/ncr.c:3457: structure has no member named `maxtarg' ../../pci/ncr.c:3471: warning: passing arg 1 of `scsi_attachdevs' from incompatible pointer type *** Error code 1 Stop. Ah well. :-/ I suppose we can wait for 2.1 to come out :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:04:29 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18406 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:04:29 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18398 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:04:26 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11444; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:51:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231851.LAA11444@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SYSCALL IDEAS [Was: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sysv_msg.c sysv_sem.c sysv_shm.c] To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:51:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: pst@shockwave.com, swallace@ece.uci.edu, bde@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-sys@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <26924.814325836@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 21, 95 06:37:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 595 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I can't imagine porting to (or being interested in) any > platform that did not support gcc, and if it did not then porting gcc > would be my first task anyway! I'm happy you feel this way. I'm using a Motorolla Ultra 603/604 PPC box, PReP compliant, running AIX as a cross-environment. When should I expect your GCC port that supports AIX imports/exports qualifiers that I'm currently using to try out BSD kernel code in the AIX kernel? Thanks, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:07:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA18733 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:07:12 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA18676 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:06:58 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11462; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:58:51 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231858.LAA11462@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: SYSCALL IDEAS [Was: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sysv_msg.c sysv_sem.c sysv_shm.c] To: swallace@ece.uci.edu (Steven Wallace) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:58:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-sys@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510212304.QAA06180@newport.ece.uci.edu> from "Steven Wallace" at Oct 21, 95 04:04:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2702 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > to get it right. First we need to catch up with 4.4lite2, which uses > > macros to handle struct padding. Then we need to catch up with NetBSD, > I hate that SCARG macro. It makes looking at the code harder to > understand. Perhaps if we did something like: > > read(struct proc *p, void *v, int retval[]) > { > struct read_args /* { > int fd; > char *buf; > u_int nbyte; > } */ *uap = v; > int fd = SCARG(uap, fd); > char *buf = SCARG(uap, buf); > u_int nbyte = SCARG(uap, nbyte); > > ... > } > > That way we don't have SCARG all over the place, and this would > prepare us for your static function idea. Seeing this on -hackers, I'd like to have someone back up and explain "the static function idea", since it seems likely that an alternate approact to the idea might be more fruitful than rewriting the system call interface such that we have to hack tables all over hell for no real gain. > > which passes the args correctly (as void *). Then we need to handle > > varargs functions and struct padding better. I think all the details > > can be hidden in machine-generated functions so that the args structs > > and verbose macros to reference them don't have to appear in the core > > sources. I have macros that divorce K&R and ANSI vararg behaviour from the code itself (I use them for various things myself). Is this what we are trying to accomplish? > > semsys() and shmsys() syscall interfaces are BAD because they > > multiplex several syscalls that have different types of args. > > There was no reason to duplicate this sysv braindamage but now > > we're stuck with it. NetBSD has reimplemented the syscalls properly > > as separate syscalls #220-231. > > I agree. This is yucky! No, this is good -- system calls are a scarce resource and should be consumed conservatively. What's the problem you have with anonymous argument vectors using subfunction codes? > We need a better way to handle these syscall subcodes (as SYSV calls 'em). I guess I don't really understand why these are a problem, unless you are trying to do something silly, like prototype them. > One idea I have is to use special case for the number of parms. > If it is < 0 then special handling should be taken. > case -1: Get code from next parameter. > case -2: Get code from next parameter (quad_t). > case -3: code = (code >> 8) & 0xff; (for ibcs2 xenix emulation) > Then use the function pointer as a pointer to a new sysent, > and do it all over again (making sure no recursion). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:09:58 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAB18927 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:09:58 -0700 Received: from seattle.polstra.com (seattle.polstra.com [198.211.214.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA18912 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:09:49 -0700 Received: by seattle.polstra.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0t7SFB-000078C; Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:09 PDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 12:09 PDT From: jdp@polstra.com (John Polstra) To: ache@freefall.freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ld.so, LD_NOSTD_PATH, and suid/sgid programs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [Andrey - I am cc'ing this to the freebsd-hackers list, because I would like to get some additional opinions about this topic.] Nate Williams and I have been doing a lot of work on ld.so lately, so I noticed with interest the recently committed change to rtld.c: > ache 95/10/21 07:52:49 > > Modified: gnu/usr.bin/ld/rtld rtld.c > Log: > if uid != euid or gid != egid unsetenv("LD_NOSTD_PATH") too I don't think that this change was such a good idea. On one hand, it adds yet another little bit of strangeness to the behavior of ld.so for suid/sgid programs. On the other hand, I do not believe that it solves a security problem, or improves the security of ld.so in any way. The dynamic linker already had code to ignore a different environment variable, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, for suid and sgid programs. That was and is important, because it does solve a serious security problem. If the dynamic linker honored LD_LIBRARY_PATH for a suid or sgid program, then a user could cause any suid or sgid program to execute his own arbitrary code with elevated permissions. He could do that simply by setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH so that his own version of libc got used instead of the standard system library. That is why the dynamic linker ignores LD_LIBRARY_PATH when uid != euid or gid != egid. But LD_NOSTD_PATH is not the same. It does not constitute any security threat, as far as I can see. All LD_NOSTD_PATH does is to cause ld.so _not_ to look in the standard places (/usr/lib) for shared libraries. It does not and cannot allow a user to substitute his own code, and have it executed with elevated permissions. At worst, a user can cause ld.so to _fail_ by setting LD_NOSTD_PATH. But that, in itself, is no security threat. It doesn't give a user the ability to do anything that he couldn't already do some other way. Can you see a security reason for disabling LD_NOSTD_PATH for suid/sgid programs? If not, I think that the recent change should be removed from rtld.c. John Polstra jdp@polstra.com Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:11:35 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19036 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:11:35 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19029 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:11:28 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11420; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:43:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231843.LAA11420@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: A quick vote on pthreads PLZ To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:43:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199510212130.HAA06203@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Oct 22, 95 07:05:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 797 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > would it do with all the places that return a pointer to static storage? > > These fall into three categories: > > (1) Functions which have a *_r() reentrant equivalent like readdir_r which > have extra arguments so that static storage is avoided. > (2) Functions which malloc memory and return that instead. The MIT code does > this in places. Return the static storage, as normal, unless create_thread() has been called, in which case, malloc the storage instead. > (3) Dunno what the solution is. No matter what it's supposed to be, what it *will* be is a static storage compatability hack. Static storage returns need to be deprecated. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:13:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19163 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:13:31 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19156 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:13:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00464; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:12:41 -0700 To: Terry Lambert cc: pst@shockwave.com, swallace@ece.uci.edu, bde@freefall.freebsd.org, CVS-commiters@freefall.freebsd.org, cvs-sys@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SYSCALL IDEAS [Was: cvs commit: src/sys/kern sysv_msg.c sysv_sem.c sysv_shm.c] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:51:33 PDT." <199510231851.LAA11444@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: <462.814475561@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I'm using a Motorolla Ultra 603/604 PPC box, PReP compliant, running > AIX as a cross-environment. > > When should I expect your GCC port that supports AIX imports/exports > qualifiers that I'm currently using to try out BSD kernel code in the > AIX kernel? Never, but so what? People who use AIX under any circumstances are already so screwed that the compiler is the least of their worries.. :-) I did my time with AIX, and you'll get no sympathy from me. None whatsoever. I'd sooner cross-develop under XENIX! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:15:04 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19288 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:15:04 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19282 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:15:02 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11337; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:17:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231817.LAA11337@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/FreeBSD (pthreads) To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:17:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <199510202241.IAA26825@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Oct 21, 95 08:44:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1392 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 3) Anyone have good hard numbers about the differences between user/kernel > > level threads on performance? > > No. We don't have a user-space implementation that works on a system with > kernel threads. We would have just used the kernel threads (like we do under > OSF/1^H^H^H^HDigital UNIX). 8-). I reimplemented Sun's LWP library, first on SunOS, then on BSD, and then later on Solaris and SVR4.2 (UnixWare). It's unfortunately one of the things that Novell felt "competed" with them (incorrectly: Novell didn't own USL at the time: USL felt they assumed all ownership, post-facto); I'd have to rewrite it to release it. The only performance comparisons I could make were on Solaris and SVR4.2. On the Solaris, there was a slightly higher system time and a lower user space time for kernel threads. On a Uniprocessor system, there was no significant difference. On SVR4.2 there was about a 12% advantage to user space threads on a UP system (probably attributable to their abominable page management practices compared to Sun). On MP systems, Solaris and SVR4 kernel threads both kicked user space threads butt's (but my test did not rely on a great deal of inter thread synchronization, so take it with a grain of salt). Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:19:32 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19591 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:19:32 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19581 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:19:28 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00523; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:19:19 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: ache@freebsd.org Subject: startslip isn't just broken - it's EVIL! Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:19:18 -0700 Message-ID: <521.814475958@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I've seen some bogus software in my day, but this one really tears it.. Not only does it have absolutely no concept of setting the VJ compression flags, but it has no provisions for multiple setup strings! Freefall doesn't deal with my TA correctly and whenever I connect I don't get a login banner - I have to hit return first (this is an oft-reported bit of FreeBSD braindamage - any plans to fix it someday?). Unfortunately, startslip is too stupid to cope with the idea of actually sending a return, much less a user defined string, if it doesn't get the prompt it's expecting. It just waits around forever. Bleah! Then there's the little cuteness of having changed the flags completely and utterly between 2.1 and current - any explanation for that decision? I've added VJ compression support to sliplogin, but these other problems I've been having with it in the wake of making those changes (I can't even *test* them because the friggin' thing won't log in!!) make me think that startslip doesn't need to be improved, it needs to be re-written from scratch and I may just do that right now.. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:22:48 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19751 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:22:48 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19741 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:22:43 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11316; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:07:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231807.LAA11316@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NetBSD/FreeBSD (pthreads) To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:07:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jb@cimlogic.com.au In-Reply-To: <9510202115.AA19961@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Oct 20, 95 02:15:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 386 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I personally would prefer good ways of solving problems without > threads...to throw threads at problems make debugging and > understanding much, much harder... I agree, but I don't think you could make a PC-Compatible dataflow machine. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:25:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA19862 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:25:12 -0700 Received: from expo.x.org (expo.x.org [198.112.45.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA19856 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:25:08 -0700 Received: from exalt.x.org by expo.x.org id AA22523; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:24:34 -0400 Received: from localhost by exalt.x.org id PAA01221; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:24:31 -0400 Message-Id: <199510231924.PAA01221@exalt.x.org> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Netscape puzzle In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:25:03 EST. <199510231825.LAA11356@phaeton.artisoft.com> Organization: X Consortium Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:24:30 EST From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I had tried that and it didn't make any difference with the BSD 2.0b1, > > I still got an "unable to open display" error. :-( > > I suggest compiling a program that does a: > > main() > { > printf( "DISPLAY is '%s'\n", getenv("DISPLAY")); > } > > On a BSDI 2.0 system and running it on a FreeBSD box and seeing what > you get. Would that I had a BSD/OS 2.0 system to do that on. All I've got is a 1.1 CD-ROM. :-( > We already know there are differences in the way the environment > code works, and you are highly dependeint on that code. > > Have you tried it with an explicit "-display" argument instead of > relying on the environment? I've tried everything. Nothing works. -- Kaleb From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:33:03 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA20112 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:33:03 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20107 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:33:00 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA02068; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:31:48 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510231931.OAA02068@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: startslip isn't just broken - it's EVIL! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:31:47 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ache@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <521.814475958@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 23, 95 12:19:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've seen some bogus software in my day, but this one really tears > it.. > > Not only does it have absolutely no concept of setting the VJ > compression flags, but it has no provisions for multiple setup > strings! Freefall doesn't deal with my TA correctly and whenever I > connect I don't get a login banner - I have to hit return first (this > is an oft-reported bit of FreeBSD braindamage - any plans to fix it > someday?). Unfortunately, startslip is too stupid to cope with the > idea of actually sending a return, much less a user defined string, if > it doesn't get the prompt it's expecting. It just waits around > forever. Bleah! Hmmm, never seen that. Are you using full hardware handshaking? > Then there's the little cuteness of having changed the flags > completely and utterly between 2.1 and current - any explanation for > that decision? > > I've added VJ compression support to sliplogin, but these other > problems I've been having with it in the wake of making those changes > (I can't even *test* them because the friggin' thing won't log in!!) > make me think that startslip doesn't need to be improved, it needs to > be re-written from scratch and I may just do that right now.. Yes, I never built up the ambition to fix it right. I kept patching it but my recent sets of patches never seemed to show up after the ones I submitted for 2.0R... ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:40:31 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA20541 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:40:31 -0700 Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA20522 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:40:09 -0700 Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id UAA00149; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:38:47 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199510231938.UAA00149@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: fork: resource not available... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:38:47 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 639 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Can someone shed a light on this one?: Cron Daemon writes: >From daemon Mon Oct 23 18:00:37 1995 >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:00:03 +0100 >Message-Id: <199510231800.TAA17944@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> >From: root@IAEhv.nl (Cron Daemon) >To: news >Subject: Cron nice /usr/lib/news/send-nntp news.tue.nl:news.tue.nl >X-Cron-Env: >X-Cron-Env: >X-Cron-Env: >X-Cron-Env: >X-Cron-Env: > >/usr/lib/news/send-nntp: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable >/usr/lib/news/send-nntp: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:48:17 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA21480 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:48:17 -0700 Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21464 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:48:10 -0700 Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA19777; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:46:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:46:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: upgrade 2.05 to 2.1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk just wondering: i have 16 boxes in a rack running 2.05R, which don't have keyboards, which will need to go to 2.1 soon i suppose (and hopefully 2.1 has fixed msync ...). Anyone have a reasonable upgrade hack to make this sort of thing easy. I did one script for 2.0 -> 2.05, basically via rdist, but there has to be a better way, right? maybe? thanks in advance. Ron Minnich |Like a knife through Daddy's heart: rminnich@earth.sarnoff.com |"Don't make fun of Windows, daddy! It takes care (609)-734-3120 | of all my files and it's reliable and I like it". From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:49:12 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA21739 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:49:12 -0700 Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA21716 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:49:09 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA00811; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:48:49 -0700 To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Grrr! Startslip ate my brain! In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:10:28 +0300." Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:48:49 -0700 Message-ID: <809.814477729@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It is easy, all headers compression was selected via startup scripts, > see examples/startslip/slup.sh for example. I was using the 2.1 version (I'm running a 2.1 tree, for obvious reasons :-) for which this wasn't present. I'll bring the 2.2 changes in for this and other reasons, but I'm still wondering how I'm going to get around the problem with the lack of a "chat" equivalent given freefall's propensity not to issue a login prompt at connection time.. As I mentioned to you in talk, I'm just going to finish my from-scratch re-write of this thing and try to add the features I feel are missing (most of them :-).. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 12:51:19 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id MAA22051 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:51:19 -0700 Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.20.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id MAA22043 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:51:15 -0700 Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA02168; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:49:54 -0500 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199510231949.OAA02168@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: fork: resource not available... To: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:49:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510231938.UAA00149@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Oct 23, 95 08:38:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can someone shed a light on this one?: > > Cron Daemon writes: > > >From daemon Mon Oct 23 18:00:37 1995 > >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:00:03 +0100 > >Message-Id: <199510231800.TAA17944@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> > >From: root@IAEhv.nl (Cron Daemon) > >To: news > >Subject: Cron nice /usr/lib/news/send-nntp news.tue.nl:news.tue.nl > >X-Cron-Env: > >X-Cron-Env: > >X-Cron-Env: > >X-Cron-Env: > >X-Cron-Env: > > > >/usr/lib/news/send-nntp: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable > >/usr/lib/news/send-nntp: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable You're at your process limit. Type "limit" at a csh prompt to find your default limit. Probably 40. Entirely too small for a busy news server. I generally build news kernels sorta big: maxusers 128 options "CHILD_MAX=256" options "OPEN_MAX=256" #options "NMBCLUSTERS=512" etc. but sometimes you gotta up those numbers. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:09:51 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA22900 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:09:51 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA22893 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:09:48 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA11375; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:28:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510231828.LAA11375@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Netscape puzzle To: nate@rocky.sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:28:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: kaleb@x.org, hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199510202122.PAA15970@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Oct 20, 95 03:22:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1076 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > >From work, if I rsh to my box and run netscape 2.0b1 with the display set > > to a machine here at work, I get an "unable to open display" error. With > > netscape 1.1 it runs for several seconds and then takes the PPP connection > > down. This has occured each and every time I've tried it. > > Why it's taking your connection out, I don't know but I've found that > the Netscape versions >= 1.1 I've run on both SunOS and FreeBSD require > me using the IP address instead of the hostname if I want to use remote > hosts. The Slowlaris versions doesn't for some reason, but I found it > interesting none the less. Another potential datapoint: We are all aware of the bind/sendmail static data initialization shared library changes, right? The ones that Matt Day reported and provided patches for in both Linux and BSD and to the package authors? Perhaps this is the same bug, where the resolver is incorrectly initialized. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:23:30 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA23652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:23:30 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23647 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:23:25 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11604; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:15:17 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510232015.NAA11604@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:15:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199510221638.MAA07304@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Oct 22, 95 12:38:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 516 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I really can't believe you guys are bragging about the widespread > utilization of > souped-up async. You still don't get the fact that you're losing several > hundred dollars > worth of machine (which brings the cost in-line with sync) to save a few > hundred on > cards for a less-efficient solution. I don't own any IDE drives -- do you? It's an interesting parallel. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:24:41 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA23759 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:24:41 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA23750 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:24:35 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11615; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:17:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510232017.NAA11615@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:17:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <308A79E5.64A99F5A@FreeBSD.org> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 22, 95 10:05:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 328 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ ... ] Jordan, you're average line length is ~94 characters. Did you load a proportional font into your xterm or something? It makes it nearly impossible to read without reformatting. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:32:44 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA24456 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:32:44 -0700 Received: from etinc.com (etinc-gw.new-york.net [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA24448 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:32:35 -0700 Received: from trumpet.etnet.com (trumpet.etnet.com [129.45.17.35]) by etinc.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10935; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:49:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:49:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199510232049.QAA10935@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I really can't believe you guys are bragging about the widespread >> utilization of >> souped-up async. You still don't get the fact that you're losing several >> hundred dollars >> worth of machine (which brings the cost in-line with sync) to save a few >> hundred on >> cards for a less-efficient solution. > >I don't own any IDE drives -- do you? It's an interesting parallel. > Routers don't use disks during operation, so why spend money on SCSI? Its hardly a parallel, since theres no gain in spending the money. On the other hand, you pay extra for speed because you think its worth it...which is exactly what I said about sync. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:34:40 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA24742 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:34:40 -0700 Received: from tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com (tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com [138.111.243.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA24734 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:34:36 -0700 From: mikebo@tellabs.com Received: from sunc26.tellabs.com by tellab5.lisle.tellabs.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0t7TMq-000jCKC; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:21 CDT Received: by sunc26.tellabs.com (4.1/1.9) id AA03529; Mon, 23 Oct 95 15:21:06 CDT Message-Id: <9510232021.AA03529@sunc26.tellabs.com> Subject: FBSD 2.0.5 951020 SNAP Install comments To: jkh@time.cdrom.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 15:21:06 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 807 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My only problems with the install so far: 64-character limit to specify NFS mount point - too short for my shop! 138.111.84.254:/export/home/tellabk-4/mikebo/FreeBSD/2.1.0-951020-SNAP ^ truncated This is undoubtedly not a problem for most people, but it bit me. I got around it my moving my stuff up one level, but 64-char seems kinda arbitrary to me. (?) - Mike -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Borowiec - mikebo@tellabs.com - Tellabs Operations Inc. Senior Member of Technical Staff 4951 Indiana Avenue, MS 63 708-512-8211 FAX: 708-512-7099 Lisle, IL 60532 USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:49:23 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26269 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:49:23 -0700 Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com (firewall-user@uswat.advtech.uswest.com [130.13.16.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26258 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:49:15 -0700 Received: from mailhub.advtech.uswest.com (mh16.advtech.uswest.com [130.13.16.7]) by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA29050 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from advtech.uswest.com (durian@angeleys.advtech.uswest.com [130.13.8.92]) by mailhub.advtech.uswest.com (8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12447 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199510232049.OAA12447@mailhub.advtech.uswest.com> From: "Mike Durian" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Device major number request Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:49:09 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Could you please assign me a character device major number? I'm porting the tclmidi driver to FreeBSD and would like to avoid conflicts. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:54:28 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA26787 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:54:28 -0700 Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26776 ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:54:21 -0700 Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11677; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:46:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199510232046.NAA11677@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Bragging rights.. To: jkh@FreeBSD.ORG (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:46:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <308A8B4E.6F9AB114@FreeBSD.org> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Oct 22, 95 11:19:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4232 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > dennis wrote: > > on their switches. If you > > think its the next "great upgrade" you're badly mistaken. > > Why? I don't see where the regional bell's *motivation* is at all > the issue. You're right that their motivation isn't an issue in deployment. But it is in their tarrif structure. I think the investment in 5ESS or better switching technology isn't as pronounced as Dennis would have use believe, or I'd have ISDN and Centrex/Centron services available at my home (I don't; there is a single 5ESS in Tucson, AZ, and much more than that worth of phone lines -- I'm on one of the "alternate" exchanges). > I understand that you're pretty biased against ISDN in favor of your > own Frame Relay solutions, but let's not go trying to adjust reality > to fit the picture you'd like it to be! If people buy ISDN, it will > be a success. So far, people are buying ISDN and all the technical > criticism in the world you may have won't change that fact one iota. The RBOC motivation *is* a factor in this argument. Specifically, the RBOC's are pushing ISDN because they can meter it, even though new equipment costs are much higher (the biggest chunk of what you pay for ISDN is the fact that you are tying up a switch for more than the expected average amount of time, and you are only doing that because of circuit switching). A packet switched network can't be metered based on content destination. The major cost in ISDN, BTW, is the software the RBOC's buy from AT&T. Note that if you live in a US West service area and happen to luck out and live near a 5ESS or better switch and US West happens to license AT&T's software for the thing, you still don't get real ISDN: You get 64/16/16 instead of 64/64/16... unsuitable for most videoconferencing or for 128k bonded rates. US West calls the real ISDN "National ISDN". Check their web page for when it will (not) be available in your area. The problem with Frame Relay is the same problem with ISDN: Inter-LATA routing. Note that for an ISP, the costs of a T1 to a FR cloud are a hell of a lot cheaper than 64 ISDN lines, so your overall cost is going to be reduced by half of the circuit. > I think we're arguing at cross purposes. I'm talking about what > the end-user wants and you're telling me what they SHOULD want and, > in Dennis's ideal world, would want. Sorry, but you clearly > haven't been a user in nearly long enough to have informed > opinions about that anymore - you have a high speed sync serial > "hammer" and now you insist that everything looks like a nail. Well, I'm an end user, and I *don't* want ISDN. I want flat rate Frame Relay, and I'm willing to pay up to 1/4 of what I pay a month to keep a roof over my head. Only no one will sell it to me. I think *you're* talking about what the end user can reasonably expect to be able to purchase from the local RBOC, not what they want. Like Henery Ford, who'd sell you any color of car, as long as it was black. I know 20 other engineers who want it too (they happen to work for the same company)... and that's just my immediate acquantances. And we are hardly the only computer/technology company in the area. We are going to have 1200-2000 Microsoft support people in the area in the next 4 years (200+ this year, then more each year). At Novell, there are at least 60 people I know who wanted it even before I left there. The reason I'm in Arizona instead of Utah is the lack of decent video conference capabilities made a move a job requirement. Now Dennis does have a problem with his market: No one (RBOC) wants to sell wires to go between his cards. But what an end user wants and what all of the parties involved agree to sell are two very different things. When the time comes, I'm going TCI (or Jones InterCable or whatever); basically whoever offers the service first is getting my business, and if it isn't US West (or your favorite RBOC), fine, then screw them. If there's a configuration where I can use one of Dennis' cards, then fine, I'll use it. Otherwise I use whatever I have to. Can you two cut it out? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 23 13:58:45 1995 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.6.12/8.6.6) id NAA27131 for hackers-outgoi