From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 2 12:17:17 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0EDB37B401 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net (bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FD6F43E4A for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:17:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from pool0545.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.44.35] helo=mindspring.com) by bluejay.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 18UBm2-0007hG-00; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:17:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3E149DEE.11F631A1@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:15:42 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: Bystander shot by a spam filter. References: <200301020611.h026BC192518@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> <20030102100959.GF12408@raggedclown.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4fb554c30160074e82ef6e58eb72d74a4a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cliff Sarginson wrote: Kind of hard to see who you are replying to; you attempt to carry the same thought through multiple levels of quoting, which doesn't quite work. 8-). > > >> >> Grim. I don't buy this, of course, but it paints a grim picture. > > >> > > > >> > Human societies have always been, in the limit, > > In the limit ? If you are going to discuss things, use language morons > like me understand. The sum of an infinite number of human behaviours is not infinite. 8-). http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/articles/zeno_tort/index.asp http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/3022/zeno.html http://www.deltalink.com/dodson/html/puzzle.html > > >> >willing to turn > > >> > to the use of force in order to achieve their ends. It is the > > >> > nature of humans to do this. > > >> > Bollocks. It is the nature of humans to do as little as possible. And to use force, if that's the least amount of effort. 8-). > How can the fiasco that brought George Bush to power occur in any > so-called civilised country ? You don't have elections in Europe?!? ;^). [ ... ] > Anyway I decided then, as I believe now, > that no society should be allowed to stop me from damaging myself. A > society has a duty to stop me from damaging others. I'll agree with that. That's rather my side of this argument; Dave believes the opposite: that the society should respect the rights of an individual, past the point of them infringing the rights of another individual. > This is why a country like The USA is the most arse-facing society of > all. While banning people from taking drugs, it creates a crime culture. The banning of the drugs is what created the crime culture: o By raising the stakes so high, it increased the cost of drugs, and therefore the economic incentive for engaging in drug trade, as a result of the direct relationship between economic value and scarcity. o By instituting differential penalties between adult and child offenders, they made an economic differential between the relativerisk/reward ratio for minors vs. adults, making it worth 10+ times as much for a child to engage in drug trade than an adult. o By introducing the use of lethal force in the enforcement of drug policy, they made use of lethal force by drug users and sellers mandatory, simply as a matter of self-defense. > This culture being heavily stimulated by the NRA, moronic untalented > actors like .. I have forgotten his name .. Charlton Heston, who can > never be accused of making a good film, who promote a gun culture. A gun culture has nothing to do with it. Very few crimes are commited with legally obtained guns, and the U.S. borders leak like a sieve, both people and guns. Most guns used in crimes are obtained from countires other than the U.S.. > I live in Holland. > The police guns go rusty from under-use. > I know of no-one who owns a gun. > Gun-crime is almost unheard of. What's your overall per capita death rate, combining criminal killings and suicides, compared to that of the U.S.? > This of course is all irrelevant to the discussion here. > But since that discussion is about as useful as trying to teach a dead > mouse how to play Macbeth *convincingly* I claim the right to join the > fruitcakes :) So, are you on the pro-SPAM (Dave's) side, or the anti-SPAM (my) side? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message