From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Apr 25 08:03:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3672CEBAE for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:03:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic314-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic314-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 498Npc6pQyz4g8L for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:03:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: P_YdB3YVM1mqXAFBDLG_TblBbk0zb5fCi5_LTUBHIQC16AKgpMl0BcIXcNivMwR YRoeZgp9IrCwS3K7n9iabY0B4OTGLASzo7FffbGax5wJW2inW6DrCq9xr1fLEQsxyp0eODVcfJQv DR3Kww.UDwnd_spuBro4G57oCn3dO6J91.ctqz4eZskwn4Dod1xQOEwTnHVFV7UUY6wPnBlnOaSE 6OGl4ScAKkGGOwq8WXjUr6L14xfC1o0VLZmVFttF0lYeqyCyalEZZWArTGVIXn7guUrlSB5opf4e UwFPhUkpjAR8Vb7nriWUMRoCsfqnlwn6dKRcf_Ajw3yitd8Gn1cMb6swxlIJlH4YVxYO_A1GCJeu MHItVkngD8Zgc8SH.p4l.tTS826uZVfx5gSizaz9IXU3fHrPZzmjWCTI4qR0mBVveWgNAE.UUFUs 8t_X3tZJa_lqoH9rrgsre.bTA8epYkTFr4qTcgdtivt8VQIl910yMB6qL.tOO9OZUtGTsI4Bc_Gq XJYpBZG1VahSFiXzgxGfw0Zaovu8jALJX5uTZEu6MotfM2M1P5ripDW1s6x4lzPwH_XaIhpx12bX JrSwGSvnBsHz470Zu4x2_uAwNrPob14LBXvrhUtgwYv5sLkZKfTSDuHBLnLBILVmSXmCiuCdoMVb CJ64oy3W7F37gAJGa9vNiBhRWXfgtsiolslB.9Jj99EzIyD4.ikp4OHZjVmUUaM_CtJdzt25DbWV EtlQHD_emplO9CJ34l10cYAiDuNt7WW.y4mXHuL3.7eWGN0fo8_Xbky2IIRlM.DFxeKUiak9D7r3 fgH9byVdb0MQBdmrWv.ZHxnF8Ov64aRRkArU2xZd3apLWKX6ciOz4YFJjMtJbHAah3O7n3z3ALVN TNz7kdGlaMC4z7K_9sS2eJ7NcpiK5fUv_lM9Y9_8tDgRhCVnYKNoAYMpNvYaYVwB9sEpc_NK1AHL Oh4BfWcHgtBnUxh9LMy1oj_tk3kZaRnfU7fR5iyfY1yKQaXl_kHMtcPI3_BYUyH0MlTIXUIFSVnU wnTuwekWCk57XYxfypc6j7RRQHxozRoF1I9FLAWnRx4Yvinvg_VpdJ.aId74bhN34JQ6IIXJ8NuV dqJvAvNbek9aQFSsn0NL.nLG4dU7npCc.cUAfWmcjRwVlRX95dvA_q6yjUXosCgikGZ01b3a8uH7 YvPm0nhFuJhoxyYHMWedk_34.J96QsyfvWeqBcnwGrV9HrqGSepIupE7tGrvEOssGCggphi8_fQA 0Nt43XY9T_hCJb.uIGhBWBFiJHh.L341pZ6S6.e14QUz1FOXE0lkkaCxuw4K_HyJIH9A4bwoMIrk El4pu0nSaGfplsJrgfWK3BuSeIJhEnIPXRaGjuiivJhoasTiAgphYUaby4RFIn2wrvejPuWe5kJ5 f2fgQZM7LWpYiIq22c6r3HQ9ZdAxKIaAtXw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:03:51 +0000 Received: by smtp403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e0c64dd996e2ad080b8c712e98e074ad; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:03:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 10:03:48 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) Message-ID: <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 498Npc6pQyz4g8L X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.15 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.64), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.12), asn: 34010(1.68), country: GB(-0.07)]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.75)[-0.748,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.91)[-0.909,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.177.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[147.177.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:03:54 -0000 S t o p spreading misinformation, stop spreading FUD! It's hard to ignore such replies. On almost all other mailing lists the moderation bit already would have been set. Note, you aren't doing FreeBSD a favour by spreading untruth about other operating systems. Subscribers of this list don't hate FreeBSD, so even promo based on facts, without bashing other operating systems is unneeded. I never claimed that it is evil to make money by programming and selling software. I also never claimed that you need to buy a hardware + operating system + user app bundle put together by a dealer. "bundle" is for the right hardware, for the right operating system, for the right user application, which results in the right tool. The right tool for a landscape artist is a tablet PC with a pencil. The landscape artist needs a tablet PC, an operating system that does run on a tablet PC with pencil and a drawing app that does run on the operating system. You need a bundle, even if you are the one who put it together. Thanks to GNU you will hardly find many legal Linux distribution that are binary only ;), let alone that the FUD you spread about "largely non-standardized methods of build from source with no real way of making sure you have all the required packages to compile against" is ridiculous. You are just unqualified. If you dislike split Linux packages, just chose a distro that doesn't split software from upstream into packages for the binaries, libraries, headers, e.g. Arch Linux. If you don't like Linux at all, don't care about it at all. However, even distros that split software from upstream into several packages tend to provide a fine user manual, e.g. Debian and Ubuntu. As an example, gimp: Arch Linux: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/gimp/ It's a single package. Debian (and Ubuntu) tracker: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gimp It's a split package. gimp gimp-data libgimp2.0 libgimp2.0-dev libgimp2.0-doc You even don't need to read a fine manual to take a look at the control and rules files: https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/control-2.10.18-1 https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/rules-2.10.18-1 To understand some things of those files you might need to read the fine manual. Arch PKGBUILDs are scripts, so you can already understand them without using a fine manual. While Arch Linux provides a *BSD port alike build system, even distros that do not, such as Debian and Ubuntu, don't split the source packages. IOW if you download a source package, to build a new edited package, by following the fine manual, you don't need to worry about the split package policy. A "computers for self purpose" is for a computer that isn't used as a useful tool in a special non-computer domain, it's for a computer that is just used as computer in a native computer domain. I do not mean for "selfish purposes". There's a difference between coders who have got knowledge about computers and a special native non-computer domain, such as music, drawing art, elementary particle physics, bookkeeping etc. and coders who only have knowledge about computers. I never met somebody who needs software or who is writing software in a domain that is not a computer domain in the first place and who cares about all that generalized pros and cons of different operating systems and licenses. What _we_ (I'm one of them) usually chose is the platform/bundle that fits best to the user's and/or developer's needs, so we sometimes end up with different hardware and different operating systems and different licensed software for different purposes. The trousers I wear are made by a different vendor than the guitars I play. The operating system I'm using for one purpose could be another operating system, than what I'm using for another purpose. I'm not the only one who does chose a tool that fits to the purpose instead of taking care about generalisation. Even within a very special domain generalisation tends to be inaccurate.