Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:02:32 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com> To: Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture Message-ID: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CAGBxaXmvaNtiFZiza_fGrHzWAcMp64d_NWstwvvVvQ959oGWHQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com> <CAGBxaXmvde89R%2BREcup9PEV6SAzQAitwHn9og92uz51GYpu%2B%2BQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAEJNuHwewpssL-t49D9pLYWNqYqwAzx4bE2eQdtow05=E9UY5Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaXmvaNtiFZiza_fGrHzWAcMp64d_NWstwvvVvQ959oGWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
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I'm a system architect/Sr System Administrator, comp sci degree, 30 years =
experience, etc.
I have to make a living.=C2=A0 I do so with RH/CentOS etc.
Honestly, if people truly understood the difference between BSD and Linux (=
full OS vs kernel) and all the nuances as well as the philosophy, I truly b=
elieve that there would be a large migration to FreeBSD.=C2=A0 Most of the =
largest and most successful companies in their respective fields use it.=C2=
=A0 (Apple, Netflix, NetApp, etc)
Heck, even Linus said if it wasn't for the lawsuit between BSD and AT&T in =
the early '90s, he would not have found it necessary to create Linux (based=
on source code COPIED from a Minix book) circa 1994.=C2=A0 (BSD traces bac=
k to 20 years earlier - dinosaur age in technology of 1974)
When I look at what has been done in the Linux world in the last five years=
.... (microprocesses, kubernetes/containers, etc) it is a REINVENTION of th=
ings that existed back in mid-90s (!!!) with FreeBSD jails and Solaris zone=
s.
Yes, the Linux community re-invents things... A LOT.=C2=A0 When they don't =
re-invent and try something new (like systemd), it's nothing short of a mes=
s.=C2=A0 It seems more of implementing things of 'I have this cool new idea=
.=C2=A0 Let's implement it' versus BSD approach of starting with 'Should we=
implement it?'=C2=A0 When there's a new release of the Linux kernel it's, =
typically, a mess.=C2=A0 It goes through a zillion patches in 6 months main=
ly about security and various holes.=C2=A0 It's really scary how much it mi=
mics a Windows release.
Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed repor=
ts
|=20
|=20
|=20
| | |
|
|
|=20
| |=20
Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re...
Freebsd Freebsd security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, vul=
nerability statistics and list of ver...
|
|
|
Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re=
ports
|=20
|=20
|=20
| | |
|
|
|=20
| |=20
Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed...
Linux Linux Kernel security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, =
vulnerability statistics and list of ...
|
|
|
Now, the two links above are just about the SECURITY vulnerabilities introd=
uced annually by the COMPLETE OS known as FreeBSD (including it's kernel an=
d userland) versus the KERNEL of Linux (this does NOT include the GNU userl=
and which is a SEPARATE list of vulnerabilities - a complete GNU/Linux syst=
em is substantially higher)
More comparison?
Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities
|=20
|=20
|=20
| | |
|
|
|=20
| |=20
Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities
Microsoft: List of all products, security vulnerabilities of products, cvss=
score reports, detailed graphical re...
|
|
|
Also, when viewing the CVE details site, please remember that OSX is NOT Fr=
eeBSD.=C2=A0 When you're looking at OSX, you are also looking at a hybrid k=
ernel, mostly FreeBSD userland and... their GUI <-- a lot of the vulnerabil=
ities are found here.
FreeBSD?=C2=A0 Heck, I'll take an x.0-RELEASE and put it in production with=
out questioning whether it works or not.=C2=A0 I wait at least 6 months bef=
ore rolling out a new Linux kernel/GNU OS.
Paul
On Friday, April 17, 2020, 1:04:21 PM EDT, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedm=
an@gmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions <
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Before getting into detail in the inline comments it is important to no=
te
> > there is small but very important philosophical difference in the desig=
n
> of
> > FreeBSD and Linux.=C2=A0 FreeBSD follows the core concept of the Hippoc=
ratic
> > Oath: "Do no harm" (aka "if it is not broken don't fix it!") and Linsuc=
ks
> > follows the completely idiotic Facebook mantra of: "Iterate fast and
> break
> > things" (aka Only an idiot would use it in a life critical application.=
)
>
> Prepubescent fanboi language that doesn't add much to a technical topic.
>
Your response shows you completely misread the intent and meaning of my
comments.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also insulting people is likely even less productive=
then me
quoting some well known cliches.
> Translated back into more coherent English, I pretty much like the
> 1990's "release often, release early" philosophy, which FreeBSD seems
> to have adopted with its recent policy of offering more frequent
> releases.
>
I am all in favor of frequent releases as long they are not broken ones
(the base system does well here the ports collection not so well).=C2=A0 I =
do
daily updates of my installed ports and usually do at least a test install
of the first -BETA of every new version (unless it fundamentally breaks
something I even switch over to it for my desktop, but wait for -RELEASE
before doing it on production servers).
Now that being said as I said in the message that you are replying to (and
so kindly took out of context) due to my application for production servers
the worst possible thing that an OS can do is something that is potentially
harmful and FreeBSD is one the best behaved in this regard where is
linsucks is by far the worst offender in this area.
>
> --
> Ottavio Caruso
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>
--=20
Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org=
"
=20
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Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:06:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Paul Pathiakis <pathiaki2@yahoo.com>
To: Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com>,
Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com>
Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Message-ID: <800698741.2297108.1587146786489@mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <3f1496d1f598c84b3871b630f161256e152aca75.camel@tom.com>
<CAGBxaXmvde89R+REcup9PEV6SAzQAitwHn9og92uz51GYpu++Q@mail.gmail.com>
<CAEJNuHwewpssL-t49D9pLYWNqYqwAzx4bE2eQdtow05=E9UY5Q@mail.gmail.com>
<CAGBxaXmvaNtiFZiza_fGrHzWAcMp64d_NWstwvvVvQ959oGWHQ@mail.gmail.com>
<681077991.2278153.1587146552233@mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture
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*sigh*.... looks like the links to=C2=A0www dot cvedetails dot com got rem=
oved...=20
Paul
On Friday, April 17, 2020, 2:03:23 PM EDT, Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-q=
uestions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: =20
=20
I'm a system architect/Sr System Administrator, comp sci degree, 30 years=
experience, etc.
I have to make a living.=C2=A0 I do so with RH/CentOS etc.
Honestly, if people truly understood the difference between BSD and Linux (=
full OS vs kernel) and all the nuances as well as the philosophy, I truly b=
elieve that there would be a large migration to FreeBSD.=C2=A0 Most of the =
largest and most successful companies in their respective fields use it.=C2=
=A0 (Apple, Netflix, NetApp, etc)
Heck, even Linus said if it wasn't for the lawsuit between BSD and AT&T in =
the early '90s, he would not have found it necessary to create Linux (based=
on source code COPIED from a Minix book) circa 1994.=C2=A0 (BSD traces bac=
k to 20 years earlier - dinosaur age in technology of 1974)
When I look at what has been done in the Linux world in the last five years=
.... (microprocesses, kubernetes/containers, etc) it is a REINVENTION of th=
ings that existed back in mid-90s (!!!) with FreeBSD jails and Solaris zone=
s.
Yes, the Linux community re-invents things... A LOT.=C2=A0 When they don't =
re-invent and try something new (like systemd), it's nothing short of a mes=
s.=C2=A0 It seems more of implementing things of 'I have this cool new idea=
.=C2=A0 Let's implement it' versus BSD approach of starting with 'Should we=
implement it?'=C2=A0 When there's a new release of the Linux kernel it's, =
typically, a mess.=C2=A0 It goes through a zillion patches in 6 months main=
ly about security and various holes.=C2=A0 It's really scary how much it mi=
mics a Windows release.
Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed repor=
ts
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |
|
|
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=20
Freebsd Freebsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re...
Freebsd Freebsd security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, vul=
nerability statistics and list of ver...
|
|
|
Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed re=
ports
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |
|
|
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=20
Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed...
Linux Linux Kernel security vulnerabilities, exploits, metasploit modules, =
vulnerability statistics and list of ...
|
|
|
Now, the two links above are just about the SECURITY vulnerabilities introd=
uced annually by the COMPLETE OS known as FreeBSD (including it's kernel an=
d userland) versus the KERNEL of Linux (this does NOT include the GNU userl=
and which is a SEPARATE list of vulnerabilities - a complete GNU/Linux syst=
em is substantially higher)
More comparison?
Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |
|
|
|=20
|=C2=A0 |=20
Microsoft : Products and vulnerabilities
Microsoft: List of all products, security vulnerabilities of products, cvss=
score reports, detailed graphical re...
|
|
|
Also, when viewing the CVE details site, please remember that OSX is NOT Fr=
eeBSD.=C2=A0 When you're looking at OSX, you are also looking at a hybrid k=
ernel, mostly FreeBSD userland and... their GUI <-- a lot of the vulnerabil=
ities are found here.
FreeBSD?=C2=A0 Heck, I'll take an x.0-RELEASE and put it in production with=
out questioning whether it works or not.=C2=A0 I wait at least 6 months bef=
ore rolling out a new Linux kernel/GNU OS.
Paul
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Friday, April 17, 2020, 1:04:21 PM EDT, Aryeh Friedman <ar=
yeh.friedman@gmail.com> wrote:=C2=A0=20
=20
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions <
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 12:02, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Before getting into detail in the inline comments it is important to no=
te
> > there is small but very important philosophical difference in the desig=
n
> of
> > FreeBSD and Linux.=C2=A0 FreeBSD follows the core concept of the Hippoc=
ratic
> > Oath: "Do no harm" (aka "if it is not broken don't fix it!") and Linsuc=
ks
> > follows the completely idiotic Facebook mantra of: "Iterate fast and
> break
> > things" (aka Only an idiot would use it in a life critical application.=
)
>
> Prepubescent fanboi language that doesn't add much to a technical topic.
>
Your response shows you completely misread the intent and meaning of my
comments.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also insulting people is likely even less productive=
then me
quoting some well known cliches.
> Translated back into more coherent English, I pretty much like the
> 1990's "release often, release early" philosophy, which FreeBSD seems
> to have adopted with its recent policy of offering more frequent
> releases.
>
I am all in favor of frequent releases as long they are not broken ones
(the base system does well here the ports collection not so well).=C2=A0 I =
do
daily updates of my installed ports and usually do at least a test install
of the first -BETA of every new version (unless it fundamentally breaks
something I even switch over to it for my desktop, but wait for -RELEASE
before doing it on production servers).
Now that being said as I said in the message that you are replying to (and
so kindly took out of context) due to my application for production servers
the worst possible thing that an OS can do is something that is potentially
harmful and FreeBSD is one the best behaved in this regard where is
linsucks is by far the worst offender in this area.
>
> --
> Ottavio Caruso
> _______________________________________________
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>
--=20
Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org=
"
=C2=A0=20
_______________________________________________
freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org=
"
=20
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From: Michael Sierchio <kudzu@tenebras.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 11:13:27 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHu1Y70m3r4rOQchVvEYMX0X9-16Ny_00iGT9ia8Bw0JO0aMAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: freebsd should be rewritten based on microkernel architecture
To: FreeBSD Questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
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https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 12:16 AM kindu smith <malaizhichun@tom.com> wrote:
> Hello, I am a user who likes UNIX-like systems. I have some experience
> using GNU / Linux and some experience using freebsd. I like the
> architecture of UNIX-like systems, but I am not proficient, so I just
> want to mention some improvements. The idea of freebsd experience,
> what is unscientific, welcome to advise.
>
> First of all, freebsd's architecture is very good, no need to invent
> the wheel, but freebsd's installation interface and startup interface
> are too old. It is time to make some changes. I think the freebsd with
> microkernel will be more stable. The / boot / kernel directory is very
> suitable for writing a small kernel, such as named core, and then
> design some modules around and package it in this directory. Then,
> under / boot, create some new directories such as EFI, API, ABI, model,
> etc. to do EFI boot and application program interface, and user space
> modules. I think this will be a perfect design. As for the design
> pattern of the microkernel, you can refer to haiku (a clone of beos).
> In addition, you need to redesign the installation interface and a
> complete desktop environment, because this is very important for
> novices. I don't think Gnome / kde / xfce or the like is used anymore.
> It is designed for Linux, and the systemd it uses is not supported by
> Freebsd.
>
> Freebsd should design a gorgeous interface comparable to macos, in
> addition to a set of init programs comparable to systemd. Therefore,
> both the bootloader and init programs need to be redesigned. For
> example, when Linux starts, it displays ok and colored driver loading
> reminders. Freebsd can learn from it. I think that the Linux startup
> program is not perfect. It is still in the startup mode similar to the
> console. The more modern startup program should be a perfect
> combination of graphical and startup information. The driver is a flaw
> of freebsd. Due to the limited number of developers, a large number of
> other systems are required, such as copying from linux. so copy it from
> linux. The GPL agreement does not affect the use of freebsd code. Only
> in this way can freebsd and linux form a differentiated competition,
> can freebsd survive the huge wave of linux.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "
> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
>
--=20
"Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is =
no
wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred."
- The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata
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