Date: 19 Sep 2001 13:32:52 -0700 From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) To: Stephen McKay <mckay@thehub.com.au> Cc: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>, Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: RMS: A threat to society? Message-ID: <disndi53bf.ndi@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <200109191347.f8JDl5i21378@dungeon.home> References: <3BA3248D.5E47FDC9@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010913023437.045fae70@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010913002733.05261930@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010912203732.0492cc80@localhost> <20010912225151.58FCD37B40B@hub.freebsd.org> <20010912215547.98067.qmail@web20806.mail.yahoo.com> <01091219512600.11358@proxy.the-i-pa.com> <20010912225428.A9675@citusc17.usc.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20010913021952.045974f0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20010913185102.0497c9e0@localhost> <15266.22869.722204.601040@guru.mired.org> <3BA3248D.5E47FDC9@mindspring.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010918092037.046e2a90@localhost> <200109191347.f8JDl5i21378@dungeon.home>
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Stephen McKay <mckay@thehub.com.au> writes: > Until that time, his actions appear to me to be completely legal (and > honest too for that matter). Legal enough to get by as far as I know; I won't argue that one. As for honesty, we mostly talking about a kind of gray area of propaganda and discussion and IP law violation in which I'm sure nobody is without sin. We're generally discussing what is fair and unfair, etc. Apparently, we have differing thresholds for "honest" here, possibly depending on our morals or probably just our biases in this particular case, but it shouldn't be suprising that a zealous leader of thousands who has devoted his life to a cause would take his zeal sometimes too far. His cause would be better served if his followers could notice some of his errors and encourage him to correct himself. Rambling on, regarding honesty and fairness: Www.gnu.org says regarding "free software": "...you always have the freedom to copy and change the software, even to sell copies." And it claims that "The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public,..." is protected by the GPL "for everyone". Many of us consider those statements untrue (the GPL explains in detail how one is not free to do those things) and see them as misleading as the salesman's "free wizbang" promotion. Sure, people know the real situation -- that the thing isn't really free and that there are loopholes and exceptions. They may even use the term "free" in the same context. But some of the people who use these false statements, like Stallman, know what they are doing (having been told) and continue to do it because it works in influencing people to support their cause. That's dishonest. I'm not saying it's dishonest to misuse the word "free" in "free software"; that word can mean anything (or nothing). But in plain English like I quoted above, you can't honestly say that with copyleft software one has "the freedom to copy and change" or to "release your improvements"; Bill Gates might as well say that you have the freedom to freely copy, change, and redistribute Windows -- you just have to accept his OEM licensing restrictions to gaurantee that freedom. Finally, I'll mention a commonly seen similarly untrue statement which as far as know doesn't come directly from Stallman but for which he should take the blame, by not using his leadership to discourage: Much copyleft software is labeled "this software is freely redistributable" when, in fact, one may not freely redistribute it. One is constrainted by terms and conditions of the GPL. One is NOT free to redistribute it as part of a closed-source program, for interest. The GPL gives "The precise terms and conditions for ... distribution". Free men might not have the freedom to drive on the wrong side of the road and free software might not have the freedom to be used in closed-source software, but freely redistributable software has no such terms and conditions. Someone who implies differently (and isn't merely confused himself) is trying to pull one over on you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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