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Date:      Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:36:11 -0700
From:      Warner Losh <imp@harmony.village.org>
To:        Doug Barton <DougB@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com>, Mark Murray <mark@grondar.za>, Sheldon Hearn <sheldonh@uunet.co.za>, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: src/etc crontab rc src/etc/defaults rc.conf src/etc/mtree BSD.root.dist src/libexec Makefile src/libexec/save-entropy Makefile save-entropy.sh 
Message-ID:  <200101121636.f0CGaBs81266@harmony.village.org>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2001 00:46:37 PST." <3A5EC46D.A912BC6F@FreeBSD.org> 
References:  <3A5EC46D.A912BC6F@FreeBSD.org>  <200101120644.f0C6hvI12630@gratis.grondar.za> <200101120534.f0C5YYH96390@earth.backplane.com> <200101120652.f0C6qls78578@harmony.village.org> <200101120711.f0C7B4Y97991@earth.backplane.com> 

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In message <3A5EC46D.A912BC6F@FreeBSD.org> Doug Barton writes:
: 	Since no one seems to actually be reading my posts, let me reiterate
: something. /etc/rc does the following in the early stages right now:

I read your posts.  Please do not characterize things otherwise.

: In case I haven't made it clear yet, I would really love to do away with
: the "gross hacks" that make 3. work, and postpone reading in the "real"
: entropy seeding till we get past 9. Up till we actually had offers of
: help today, IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO MOUNT -A RELIABLY BECAUSE /DEV/RANDOM
: WOULD BLOCK.

Unless we were to modify /dev/random to not block until the first
write to it.  We're all aware of this.

: Hopefully that will be the last time I have to say it. Now,
: are you sure that ccdconfig, vinum, fsck, and mount* (other than nfs)
: will work with a "weak" amount of randomness? 

We've answered this.  They need good random numbers, but not
cryptographically secure random numbers.

: 	Apparently it makes sense to Schneier. For the initial commit Mark just
: gave me something approximating the recommended values. I ran with the
: stuff for a couple days and never even noticed it. I did start to think
: however that the 8 seeds would probably really only be useful at boot
: time, so it might make more sense to run it every 3 minutes for an hour
: after boot, then every N minutes thereafter. However, I needed to do
: some research on our new(ish) ability to schedule cron jobs for @boot,
: or whatever the hell it is.

Anything that runs once every three minutes is going to be strong
resisted.  Lots of people aren't going to like it.

: 	As stated, Warner's suggestion is a good one, presuming that Mark is
: satisfied regarding being able to provide sufficient entropy to
: kickstart yarrow, AND that we're sure none of the things listed above in
: 4-9 need strong randomness to work.

I'm still wainting to hear back from Mark on the non-blocking idea.

In the mean time, I would like to say that I appreciate your efforts,
even if they aren't exactly what I'd do.

Warner


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