Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:51:40 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> To: Chris Pressey <cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The beastie boot menu. Message-ID: <20041201005139.GA71572@xor.obsecurity.org> In-Reply-To: <20041130162403.567a4e39.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> References: <20041129024602.GA23324@turingmachine.mentalsiege.net> <1101748454.41ab58e61eb88@imp2-q.free.fr> <FA1860B97FADCA625C68119A@[192.168.1.16]> <1101788709.41abf62519b57@imp2-q.free.fr> <20041130002603.692153b7.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> <p06002035bdd1f81925dd@[10.0.1.3]> <20041130145130.0aa893f1.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu> <20041130230214.GA39964@xor.obsecurity.org> <20041130162403.567a4e39.cpressey@catseye.mine.nu>
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--ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 04:24:03PM -0800, Chris Pressey wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:02:14 -0800 > Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> wrote: >=20 > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 02:51:30PM -0800, Chris Pressey wrote: > >=20 > > > > [...] > > > > I'm sorry, I just don't see the source of confusion. I don't > > > > see the floundering. > > >=20 > > > Do you follow cvs-src@? > >=20 > > Come now, surely you can do a better recruiting job for DragonFly than > > falling back on FUD. > >=20 > > Kris >=20 > I'm not recruiting for DragonFly; I raised these exact same issues about > lack of a stated philosophy on their list a couple of months ago. >=20 > I'm also not spreading FUD. I'm not sure of the best way to objectively > measure the amount of floundering a project is undergoing, but I think > counting the number of backouts and backout requests would be a good > first approximation. In order to measure that, one would quite > naturally have to read the CVS logs. >=20 > And while I have not conducted a formal study, I've seen backouts and > backout requests appear far more frequently on the FreeBSD CVS list than > on any of the other BSD CVS lists I've followed. >=20 > You may have noticed, in fact, that this entire thread was started off > by one such backout. >=20 > Now you might say, well FreeBSD only has more backouts because FreeBSD > has so many more developers and so much more activity. That's almost > certainly true. But that's even *more* of a reason to have a cohesive > philosophy communicated clearly to the entire project, otherwise the > amount of toe-stepping will become unmanageable. Even if there were anything to this hypothesis, your metric only measures conflict between developers and lack of ability of certain people to obtain public consensus on their changes, not lack of direction for the project (in many such cases there's agreement on the intended goal of the change, but not the implementation). Certainly, a project with a small number of major developers will have less backout requests by virtue of no-one standing up to disagree with them, but that doesn't mean it's going anywhere very quickly. Kris P.S. Given the histories involved, it's amusing to see a dragonfly advocate pointing out that minimizing inter-developer conflict within the project would be a good way for FreeBSD to achieve a better project direction. --ibTvN161/egqYuK8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFBrRWbWry0BWjoQKURAvUsAJ9S3CRzSQT5BfhAUUD9bFU6cXSJ7gCggdqU wmJrkz/pLufqr20fLrZuP2Y= =9lFT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ibTvN161/egqYuK8--
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