Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:30:09 -0500 From: Sean Cavanaugh <millenia2000@hotmail.com> To: <smithi@nimnet.asn.au>, <sonicy@otenet.gr> Cc: nick.chorley@gmail.com, "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: 8.0 installation doesn't contain X distributions Message-ID: <BAY126-W24142C3BF7E11FAF183B5ECA8D0@phx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <20091210185602.T12012@sola.nimnet.asn.au> References: <20091206102227.7C3BA10656F0@hub.freebsd.org>, <20091210185602.T12012@sola.nimnet.asn.au>
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> Date: Thu=2C 10 Dec 2009 19:47:08 +1100 > From: smithi@nimnet.asn.au > To: sonicy@otenet.gr > CC: nick.chorley@gmail.com=3B freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: 8.0 installation doesn't contain X distributions >=20 > In freebsd-questions Digest=2C Vol 287=2C Issue 16=2C Message: 8 > On Sat=2C 05 Dec 2009 19:39:08 +0200 Manolis Kiagias <sonicy@otenet.gr> w= rote: >=20 > Look=2C I'm sorry=2C but I think this is a huge regression=2C especially = if=20 > we're still hoping that people with no prior experience of installing=20 > freeBSD=2C people coming from Linux and such=2C for essentially or includ= ing=20 > desktop use=2C are going to have a rewarding installation experience. >=20 > I think this is taking base-system-only installation purity to excess. >=20 > Fine for people installing servers of course=2C and maybe it will shift=20 > more people wanting a GUI environment towards PC-BSD and such if we want= =20 > to discourage these from using FreeBSD as it is (or maybe=2C was) but eve= n=20 > with my 11 years experience of installing FrreeBSD versions from 2.2=20 > till now=2C I kept on wondering=2C how would a newbie fare at this point? >=20 > The main disadvantage is - access to all packages :) In the case of X=2C= =20 > you and I=2C developers and most people here know to hunt for the Xorg=20 > meta-port. But the naive or new installer knows of no such thing=2C and=20 > could beat around in the huge lists of X software for ages=2C wondering=20 > what's required and what's not to get a desktop going. >=20 > The previous basic setup menus in sysinstall for X were not only useful= =3B=20 > I suspect that they are virtually essential for someone=2C say=2C coming= =20 > from Debian or Ubuntu or such=2C wanting to try FreeBSD on their system= =2C=20 > or the genuine first-time installer of FreeBSD. sysinstall used to=20 > assume as little prior knowledge or need to pre-read the Handbook and/or= =20 > FAQ or follow the lists as possible. Now it's seeming much more firmly=20 > targeted at the already experienced user=2C and I feel that's regressive. >=20 > cheers=2C Ian to play devils advocate=2C how many people do you know run a pure version o= f Linux? next to nobody does because there are distros built (ie=2C red hat= =2C ubuntu=2C yellowdog...) that have the structuring together. I agree wit= h the other person who mentioned PC-BSD as I agree that that would be perfe= ct for a true newbie to *nix to install and use FreeBSD. =20 most linux people will know all about packages and should be able to fumble= thru the package installer in sysinstall just fine until they find the por= ts list. =20 if the user is a complete newbie to *nix in general=2C we would all be refe= ring them to the documentation=2C or a good published freebsd book. =20 I can definitely state from my beginnings with FreeBSD as my first *nix=2C = the packages system is pretty easy to find software users are looking for. = you could technically transpose your comments about users not knowing how t= o install xorg with a GUI like Gnome or KDE. its still boils down to the we= ll labled meta- package/port. =20 but to sum it up. when i am introducing someone new to *nix and i want them= to use freebsd=2C i point them to PC-BSD as it "just works"=2C then when t= hey get comfortable=2C i show them the rest of what freebsd has to offer th= em=2C and sometimes they switch to a straight freebsd install the next time= they build a system. =20 -Sean =
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