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Date:      Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:17:45 -0700
From:      "Philip J. Koenig" <pjklist@ekahuna.com>
To:        bmah@freebsd.org
Cc:        "Miroslav Pendev" <shadow@CPE0004761ac738-CM00109515bc65.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>, "questions" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, "Matthew Plews" <plews@bigpond.net.au>
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD 4.6 Install Problem 
Message-ID:  <20020619051745323.AAA639@empty1.ekahuna.com@pc02.ekahuna.com>
In-Reply-To: <200206190423.g5J4NpdJ038914@intruder.bmah.org>
References:  <20020619011031327.AAA637@empty1.ekahuna.com@pc02.ekahuna.com> 

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Quick followup, more important stuff near bottom.



On 18 Jun 2002, at 21:23, Bruce A. Mah boldly uttered: 

> If memory serves me right, "Philip J. Koenig" wrote:
> 
> > Good point.  If people were seriously talking over on -security about 
> > a new ISO to incorporate that Apache patch, 
> 
> None of those people were on the release engineering or port manager 
> teams, which are the bodies who would be ultimately responsible for 
> doing the work.  :-p


Fair enough, I didn't see the thread.

 
> > I'd definitely suggest 
> > releasing 4.6a with something to allow new installers to turn on the 
> > DMA switch before running the install from an IDE CDROM.
> 
> I wrote an errata note with a workaround for this, and posted a pointer
> to stable@ earlier today.  Feedback is encouraged before I commit this
> to the release documentation and Web site, hopefully in the next day or 
> so:
> 
> http://people.freebsd.org/~bmah/doc/errata/article.pdf
> 
> It sounds like you had something more automatic in mind.  This involves
> code that doesn't exist.  Until someone writes it, this is a moot point.



OK, I figured some install script could just pause and set a variable 
rather than going right into sysinstall, but I'm not familiar with 
what it would entail to do that.


> (Better would be to get sos@ a block of time and the right equipment to
> troubleshoot this problem and "really" fix it.  The trick, of course, 
> is the time.)


Agreed, but sometimes workarounds are acceptable on a temporary 
basis, especially when the next CD is months away.

 
> > There may be some political/logistical issues I'm not aware of 
> > though, like mirror sites and so forth, so the RE people will have to 
> > make that call.
> 
> The rest of this email is my own personal opinion, and doesn't 
> necessarily reflect that of anyone else on the RE team.
> 
> OK.  One practical issue is that two of the release engineers (including
> the RE team lead) are currently out of email contact.  The remaining
> three of us haven't discussed this issue...at this time, we have no
> plans to re-release any part of 4.6.
> 
> It's not as easy as re-running "make release".  There's the very
> significant issues of doing another QA cycle on a re-release, etc., not
> to mention the disruption to vendors' production schedules.
> 
> I'm not saying "no, it won't happen", but I think it's unlikely.
> 
> Bruce.


I know little or nothing about the QA process, but I assumed 
incorporating a vendor-supplied patch to Apache and setting a DMA 
variable at install time if installing from CD weren't very 
significant changes.  I might be completely wrong of course.

Re: production schedules, if you're talking about resellers who are 
trying to sell FreeBSD 4.6 CD sets, that's certainly understandable. 
(although it would be interesting to poll these vendors sometime and 
find out whether they'd rather wait a few days more for such bugfixes 
or ship known problematic stuff)

However if you're referring to user site production schedules, I'm 
not sure it's an issue.  Most significant users are plenty familiar 
with patching/rebuilding FreeBSD, they keep up with the news and 
security announcements, and I doubt large sites are using the 
bleeding-edge stuff as a rule anyway. (I know of one very large 
hosting provider - pair.com - who has virtually all their servers 
running something based on FreeBSD 4.1 last time I checked, and for a 
company with that much at stake and the work involved in upgrading 
all their boxes, it's easy to understand why.)

However the users that *are* going to get bitten by this kind of 
thing are just the ones that may just throw up their hands and go 
back to Linux or Windows when they can't get it to install.  They 
aren't necessarily familiar with the various FreeBSD support venues, 
they may be less technically competent, etc.  Whereas the big sites 
know full well that glitches sometimes happen - they're not going 
anywhere and they know how to deal with the inevitable bumps in the 
road.

Thanks for listening,

Phil



--
Philip J. Koenig                                       pjklist@ekahuna.com
Electric Kahuna Systems -- Computers & Communications for the New Millenium


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