Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:59:35 -0500 From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> To: ian j hart <ianjhart@ntlworld.com> Cc: "stable@FreeBSD.ORG" <freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: RELENG_4_3 calls itself -RELEASE? Message-ID: <15211.7879.635254.595670@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <3B6AF5AB.5116FD56@ntlworld.com> References: <2.1-7761648-395-A-OEWW@smtp-server.mmcable.com> <3B6AF5AB.5116FD56@ntlworld.com>
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ian j hart <ianjhart@ntlworld.com> types: > Mike Meyer wrote: > > > > ian j hart wrote: > > >> Leaving it at -RELEASE isn't all that bad. The original complaint was > > >> that it was a surprise. As others have noted, we deal with that kind > > >> of thing all the time. Either way, -RELEASE is what's approved by the > > >> release engineer. We will have to change the documentation to match, > > >> though. > > > When you log on and MOTD tells you you have 4.3-RELEASE how do you > > > know _which_ 4.3-RELEASE you have. The one with a broken telnetd or > > > the one without. (You need to check the date of course). > > > > If it says -FOO, how do you know which one it is? > You don't. You know what it is NOT tho'. How does this help your > argument to leave it at -RELEASE? It doesn't. What it does do is nullify your argument for changing it. > > The only thing changing the name eliminates is the unpatched case. > Exactly. It's a clue stick. A very unreliable one. Given N commits on the branch, you have N+1 possible states for the system to be in. If you leave the name as is, you can't tell the difference between any of them. If you change the name, you can only tell the difference between 1 of them and rest, and you have N states you can't tell the difference between. If you're using that to decide whether or not your systems are in some way "safe", you need to be hit with *real* clue stick. > > > What if you have x00 4.3-RELEASE machines to secure? Checking files > > > will take a lot longer than reading the MOTD and the build date. That > > > assuming you haven't been rooted already of course. ;) > > The same way you do if you have a bunch of x00 4.3-FOO machines to > > secure. > > If you really want to test with telnet, you can set the login banner > > yourself. > I was thinking of a console login. Most of my servers are in one room. > and luckily I don't have hundreds. In any case thay are all running > 4.3-RELEASE. That's 4.3-RELEASE with the security patches, not the > other 4.3-RELEASE. <bg> Which tells me you've applied the patches for the race conditions in fts. If that's all you've applied, I'd advise updating your systems. <wg> Actually, the best suggestion I've seen is that the updates be labelled as point releases, so that if your systems only have the first patch applied, it'd be 4.3.1-RELEASE. That actually does the job you are wanting doine, which changing the name fails to do. It's not at all clear how that would interact with *real* point releases, though. <mike -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
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