Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:19:29 -0800 From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> To: Scott Mitchell <rsm@acm.org> Cc: Colin Eric Johnson <colinj@cs.unm.edu>, Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, David Kulp <dkulp@neomorphic.com>, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compatibility list Message-ID: <71784.921107969@zippy.cdrom.com> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:15:37 GMT." <19990310181537.16981@goatsucker.org>
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> Well, I believe I have the programming skills, although I'd have to read up > on the PCMCIA/CardBus stuff, and I'm willing to commit time to this (modulo > getting my thesis and the Xircom ethernet driver done, switching jobs and > moving house in the next few months). It's not a single-person job though: > from other comments on this thread, my own reading of the existing code and > the general anti-PAO feeling on this list I guess what's needed is a > complete rewrite of the PCCARD code, as a special case of some generic > removable device support (does this actually exist? is it documented > anywhere?) Presumably that would be less work in the long run than endless > hacking on the current code. Excellent, consider yourself signed up. Of course, I also feel morally obligated to inform you that if you're at all typical, you'll last about 4 months at this and then vanish, never to be heard from again, but hey - I'm always ready and willing to be surprised by the rare exception to the rule! :-) > Of course all this is beside the point if FreeBSD is just a 'server > focused' OS, and no-one on the core team really gives a shit about pushing > desktop, let alone laptop, support. That may not be the case, but it is > the impression a mere user like me (can't speak for anyone else) gets from > reading the lists when these subjects come up. So, is anyone actively We give a shit, believe me (most of core owns at least one laptop and I personally have 2), we just don't have anyone available to do the work. The reaction you've seen to date is probably more a side-effect of the fact that we're a little sensitive about the fact that people generally just like to beat us up over laptop support, screaming that "somebody has to do something!" The identity of this "somebody" is rather vague but everyone is unanimous in their opinion that this "somebody" better get busy and, after a few years of that kind of behavior, one can generally forgive the developers for having an ear absolutely full of such whining. It's unfortunate that the next newbie who stumbles into the conversation with a "why hasn't somebody done something about the lapt..." gets both barrels right in the chest as a result, but it's at least an understandable human impulse. > Jordan's getting this "Driver allocation failed for ep0" error. My point > is, if no-one on core/committers cares about making this stuff happen, > there's not much motivation for the rest of us to "do the work", as we are > always exhorted to do. If I'm going to invest my time (and probably money) > in this, I don't want it to end up as another PAO...if that's the way it > would be, we may as well all switch to Linux now. You'd be given commit privileges once you proved that you were both capable of making reasoned changes (not just "hack hack hack, whoops, did I break something there?") and of dealing with CVS and all its wrinkles. As "the PCCARD guy", you'd then be the one to track things like the ep driver and work with the author(s) of that code to ensure that PCCARD support was proplerly dealt with. In some cases, your PCCARD hat would call for you to go in and do the deed on their behalf, but I don't think that anyone expects you to take over the job of retrofitting every driver in existence so much as communicating to the other authors just what needs to be done so that they can do it themselves. It also gives the buck somewhere to stop so that when something is clearly broken and nobody seems to want to fix it, it gets fixed anyway. > Should probably clarify my idea of desktop/laptop support here. I don't > think that we, or Linux for that matter, are any kind of serious > competition for MS, or Apple, or anyone else, for the hearts and minds of > the average desktop user (as in someone who really doesn't care what's > under the hood, but just wants to get their work done, play games, It's good that your realize that. :) > up, which for the time being I guess means being at least as good as > Linux...then maybe we'll see some more mainstream application developers > coming across to BSD. Getting way too off topic here, will stop now. No, that's a reasonable summary I think. Your sights appear to be pointed at the right target. > So consider me volunteered to do (some of) the work...anyone else who wants > in, please stand up now. That means 'political' and logistical as well as I'd like you to play point man on this since the "PCCARD movement" lacks even a focus leader at present. Are you willing to be that guy and for at least a year, since that's about the most reasonable "ramp up" period I can envision? If the answers to both those questions are a "yes" then I hereby encourage all of those PCCARD hopefuls out there to rally around your new spiritual leader, Scott Mitchell, as he's now The Guy. See? The core team folks are more than capable of making quick decisions when such are called for. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-mobile" in the body of the message
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