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Date:      Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:39:48 +1030
From:      Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To:        Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>, Christian Kuhtz <ck@ns1.adsu.bellsouth.com>
Cc:        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com>, FreeBSD current users <FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: Thanks, Core Team
Message-ID:  <19981228123948.D12346@freebie.lemis.com>
In-Reply-To: <199812280154.RAA06527@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 05:54:02PM -0800
References:  <19981227205032.J1333@ns1.adsu.bellsouth.com> <199812280154.RAA06527@dingo.cdrom.com>

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On Sunday, 27 December 1998 at 17:54:02 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
>> On Sun, Dec 27, 1998 at 05:45:37PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>>>> 1.  LKMs are gone.
>>>> 2.  This was decided by the core team.
>>>> 3.  Nobody else was informed.
>>>
>>> Actually, while some of the recent events came as much as a surprise
>>> to core as anyone else, the transition from LKMs to KLD modules is not
>>> and should not come as a surprise to anyone.  We've been talking about
>>> it for ages now in -current and the only way you could possibly fail
>>> to be informed about this transition would be if you had simply
>>> deleted every mail received from -current for at least the last 3
>>> months.
>>
>> And three months is considered to be a suitable transition period?  With all
>> due respect, give me a break. *hrmph*
>
> This was discussed at length for some time; and in Greg's case as one
> of the LKM-laggers we've been trying to encourage him to switch for
> some time, and that was in fact on the agenda before the jackboots
> arrived.

Now so far the discussion has been reasonable.  But this is utter
bullshit.  Nobody has given me any warning that there was any pressing
need to change.  I keep all these messages, and what I have is:

15 August:  You tell me that 3.0 will be using kld instead of lkm.
2 October:  You send me an example.
9 October:  Peter tells me (copying -current) that the code and tools
	    are incomplete.  Round the same time, he committed a
	    number of fixes, but there was nothing to indicate that
	    klds were ready for prime time.
2 December: You send a message, not copying me, explaining some
	    details of how to perform the conversion to klds.  No
	    mention of urgency.

And that's it.  Do you have anything I've missed?

Sure, I knew it was on the agenda, and if you had told me even three
weeks ago, I wouldn't have complained.  But it's not reasonable to
wake up one morning and find LKMs dead and Vinum gone from the
repository.

> Three months is actually not at all unreasonable, especially given how
> trivial the actual code changes required are.
>
>> If the old facility still works, why not leave both enabled?
>
> Because LKMs don't work for ELF kernels, and we should be making the
> ELF kernel cutover before we branch.  

Which IIRC was slated for mid-January, as Jordan warned us (see,
Jordan, I *do* read these things).

> Again, this is something that should have been understood by the
> folks following -current, although we haven't necessarily been
> making enough loud noise about it to keep it a constant discussion
> topic.

Let me rephrase that:

  although we forgot to tell people that things were going to go away,
  and just removed them.

Greg
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