Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:51:21 -0600 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Stephen McKay <syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au>, Mike Smith <msmith@FreeBSD.ORG> Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADSUP: wd driver will be retired! Message-ID: <19991211125121.J760@mojave.worldwide.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <199912110503.PAA01950@nymph.detir.qld.gov.au>; from syssgm@detir.qld.gov.au on Sat, Dec 11, 1999 at 03:03:19PM %2B1000 References: <199912110503.PAA01950@nymph.detir.qld.gov.au> <199912110557.VAA00518@mass.cdrom.com> <v04220809b47724ea06b3@[195.238.25.55]> <199912110158.RAA04944@mass.cdrom.com> <199912110503.PAA01950@nymph.detir.qld.gov.au>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Saturday, 11 December 1999 at 15:03:19 +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > On Friday, 10th December 1999, Mike Smith wrote: > >> The same mentality that made the CAM cutover a "debacle" is making the >> ata cutover a "debacle". > > This "mentality" might be an unavoidable part of human nature. I found > my first reaction was "How dare they take away something I have now?!" > and it took some careful thinking to see that my loss was actually very > small against future benefits. It might be that these things have to be > predicted by -core and handled "touchy feely" like: > > core: What if we do this <decisive break with past> ? > public: Um, sounds scary. When will you do it? Will I lose anything? > core: We think a month from now, and you will lose support for <x> and <y>. > public: We don't use <x> and <y> any more, so fine. > > instead of the current (caricatured for emphasis): > > core: We will do <decisive break with past> soon. Probably today. > public: Oh my God! > core: It's for your own good. You always complain and make it difficult! > public: We don't want to change anything, ever! It's so hard! You must > support all my hardware for ever and ever! You obviously haven't seen it from this viewpoint (s/core/committers/): committers: We will do <decisive break with past> soon. Probably today. public: What does this mean for me? committers: It's all new, all better, much better code. public: Will it do everything the old driver did? committers: Well, no, but that's coming. public: And what do I do in the meantime? committers: Stop whining. On Friday, 10 December 1999 at 21:57:17 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Friday, 10th December 1999, Mike Smith wrote: >> >>> Fortunately, the CAM folks persisted despite the criticism, and I'm glad >>> to see that Soren is taking the same stance. >> >> Not everything improved with CAM. Personally I'm only receiving the >> benifits of CAM now, about a year after it replaced the old system. >> On the balance it has been good for FreeBSD, but you have to remember >> that there will be small pockets of users that will get the short end >> of the stick. How the project deals with the losers in these deals is >> important for its long term health. > > It's more how the losers deal with the project, to be honest. There has > to be a way to make them realise that it's not reasonable to expect > everyone else to live in pain just because they (think they) are still > comfortable. OK, now explain how that statement relates to the matter at hand. Who is going to be in pain if the "losers" get their way? Who if not? Your whole attitude shows a surprisingly one-sided view of things. There are people out there who are going to suffer because of short-term decisions which aren't really necessary right now. Amongst others, they're the people who are paying your salary. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?19991211125121.J760>