Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 05:34:33 +0000 From: Rick Nekus <solarux@hotmail.com> To: <freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: sound documentation for the snd_hda (Nvidia) Message-ID: <BAY134-W324AB15A559288004D8115A1710@phx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <474F769C.7030004@chuckr.org> References: <47475DF3.8030407@chuckr.org> <47477B4F.6000008@chuckr.org> <47484E4F.8000404@queue.to> <4749D405.6050800@chuckr.org> <20071126092456.ft3ir1peok80ckww@webmail.leidinger.net> <474B011A.6030705@chuckr.org> <20071128080526.qid2w9tvy800cck8@webmail.leidinger.net> <474F769C.7030004@chuckr.org>
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...more advocacy than anything else, and a little off-topic but; I've followed this thread and I'd like to apologize personally, for any obv= ious rudeness I said earlier reply-posts, and 2nd, it just hit me (again) j= ust how much work all you little "dev"ils and programmers do for us "Users"= , and I hate the word "reverse-engineering" because, in fact, you're all tr= ying to give us (Users) access to what I consider an "illegal monopolizatio= n of hardware"-in the first place. -I realize also, that is debateable? but= hey, I like Theo's stance regarding OpenBSD. ...anyway, thats as simple as I can put it at this time, and keep carrying = the torch guys n' gals 'cause many of us (user's) actually support you, and we buy those FreeBSD install = CD's and darn T-shirts, and whatever...because we want to, and because the = end result simply works -most of the time -desktop-wise :) -isn't FreeDOM w= onderful ! =20 -I dream of FreeBSD building a dedicated Hardware core-design team(jus' lik= e the present NetOS team) someday, and guess what! all standards' for all d= rivers, -now that would smoke! =20 anyway good luck in (all)the endevours' =20 Rick. > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:34:04 -0500> From: chuckr@chuckr.org> To: Alexa= nder@Leidinger.net> CC: hg@queue.to; freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org> Subjec= t: Re: sound documentation for the snd_hda (Nvidia)> > Alexander Leidinger = wrote:> > Quoting Chuck Robey <chuckr@chuckr.org> (from Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12= :23:38 > > -0500):> > > >> Alexander Leidinger wrote:> >>> Quoting Chuck Ro= bey <chuckr@chuckr.org> (from Sun, 25 Nov 2007 > >>> 14:59:01 -0500):> >>>>= >>>> Where do the developers of the HDA code hang out, on this list? Is th= e> >>>> snd_hda the current hda driver, and if so, where's the new code goi= ng> >>>> to be?> >>>> >>> The current HDA driver is in -current. RELENG_7 i= s on par (AFAIK). > >>> RELENG_6 is "close", but you are better of with REL= ENG_7 or HEAD. > >>> Yes this is the right list, and the only developer wor= king on the > >>> HDA front and our sound infrastructure I'm aware of is Ar= iff (sorry > >>> to the 2 others which work on the envy and creative driver= s, but > >>> for this discussion you don't count ;-) ). He seems to be shor= t of > >>> time ATM. You could try to catch him on #freebsd-azalia on freen= ode.> >>>> >>> I'm not aware of a major rewrite in the HDA part. Ariff seem= s to be > >>> working on something else: http://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/>= >>> >> I was operating under the assumption that those comments from hdac.= c,> >> about the snd_hda driver badly needing a complete rewrite because it= > >> was insufficiently, well, bussed? Yeah, bussed meant that code rework>= >> was ongoing.> >>> >> If you even know what that comment about the busse= s being less than> >> they might be means, IF you could point me at any dri= ver that you> >> personally think shows a more *ideal* setup, it would at l= east make me> >> aware of what's really wanted. You don't need to describe = it yourself,> >> I know that'd be a major bore to do that for me, and I cou= ld probably> >> learn as well by just reading code that illustrates what th= ings> >> *should* be.> > > > AFAIK, the non-ideal part of the driver is not= related to our > > soundsystem. I was told the HDA architecture allows mor= e than just the > > normal sound output you get with, e.g. AC97 based sound= cards. So I think > > the idea is to split up the driver specific part a li= ttle bit more, so > > that you can add more things later. So the parts you = need to read are > > the HDA specs and get an idea what can be improved the= re. Graphically > > it's like this ATM:> > In private emails with Andriy Ga= pon, he told me that he was rather > heaviily involved with the driver, and= it was his impression that the > comment that led me to believe that the s= nd_hda driver was destined for > a rewrite due to undetermined buss problem= s, could be completely > disregarded, as an old comment that no longer need= ed to be in any way > regarded.> > Due to the antics of my local apartment = management, my last two days > were pretty much out of control, but at leas= t I finally do understand > what the heck the hda docs mean by a "widget" (= nothing to do with > graphics at all), but I'm still whacking away at the r= est of the > configuration, which (it seems to me) is about 66% of the magi= c of that > entire hda architecture. Certainly one heck of a long way diffe= rent > than any other sound setup I ever heard of. I think no one would > p= ossibly disagree with me when I say, it's pretty obvious that a > programme= r basically did the largest part of the system design.> > Long time back, w= hen I used to do telephone communications systems, we > (in the trade) used= to use "designed by programmers" as a codeword for > "disaster", because t= he resulting systems always seemed to go out of > their way to totally igno= re all existing standards, and re-commit as > many tried and true mistakes = as possible. Now that I am myself a > programmer, I try hard not to justify= that, but things like the hda > system bring back the truth of that.> > > = > > +----------------------------------------+> > | FreeBSD kernel |> > | += --------------+ |> > | | sound subsys | |> > +-------------------+------+--= -----+-----+> > |> > +-------+--------+> > | HDA code |> > +---------------= -+> > > > > > And I think the goal is to get something like:> > +----------= ------------------------------+> > | FreeBSD kernel |> > | +--------------+= |> > | | sound subsys | |> > +-------------------+------+-------+-----+> >= |> > +--------+--------+> > |HDA bus/framework|> > ++-----+--------+-+> > = | | |> > sound ... something_else> > > > > > Hope this helps,> > Alexander.= > > > > _______________________________________________> freebsd-multimedia= @freebsd.org mailing list> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebs= d-multimedia> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-multimedia-unsubscr= ibe@freebsd.org" _________________________________________________________________ Are you ready for Windows Live Messenger Beta 8.5 ? 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