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Date:      Thu, 20 Jun 2013 21:00:17 +0100
From:      David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        src-committers@FreeBSD.org, Andre Oppermann <andre@FreeBSD.org>, John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>, Peter Wemm <peter@wemm.org>, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org>, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, Tijl Coosemans <tijl@FreeBSD.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r251886 - in head: contrib/apr contrib/apr-util contrib/serf contrib/sqlite3 contrib/subversion share/mk usr.bin usr.bin/svn usr.bin/svn/lib usr.bin/svn/lib/libapr usr.bin/svn/lib/libap...
Message-ID:  <DCDE1482-C61C-4533-B8D5-DD12C0229A09@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <68D70A89-22F2-412C-BAF4-72BEFE21EB2F@bsdimp.com>
References:  <201306180253.r5I2rj45053959@svn.freebsd.org> <11DA3D8A-AD20-4DE1-B807-D09814F61947@bsdimp.com> <51C1C7BD.9060201@FreeBSD.org> <201306191113.29703.jhb@freebsd.org> <A5DB9B17-9622-4F65-A902-4984CDD82DC3@FreeBSD.org> <8D00BE2B-FD8E-4E7B-B818-1C4B7F6BB6A5@bsdimp.com> <F96228E4-16C3-4238-B54B-7E7C0C08B95B@FreeBSD.org> <68D70A89-22F2-412C-BAF4-72BEFE21EB2F@bsdimp.com>

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On 20 Jun 2013, at 20:34, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> People trying new versions of FreeBSD. Some of them install the =
release, others might install a snapshot, some will do an install world. =
But if it worked in release 9.3 and broke in 9.4, then to find where =
they would need to install an svn port to get all the points in between.
>=20
> Not having to install a port, possibly a port that got messed up by =
the world you just build, is a big win for me in my mind. Users often =
have commented to me that running FreeBSD gets harder and harder with =
more hoops to jump through to do things that used to be easy. Installing =
svn is one more hoop. It, by itself isn't a huge hoop, but if we can =
avoid that hoop we should.
>=20
> I do mind installing a port to do this. We've kicked too much out of =
the tree in the name of anti-bloat, and frankly I'm glad to see this.

This rationale makes sense to me.

> I think insisting on a definitive statement on svn lite's mission =
statement is a way to obstruct progress. Sometimes you just need to =
things because they feel right, not because they have been through a =
20-step approval process...

When we add something to base, it should always be for a reason with a =
defined use-case that can't be (easily) solved by existing means.  I =
think we have that rationale now, and I'm happy.  A long discussion =
could have been circumvented by providing it up-front.

David


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