Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:33:29 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> To: Gregory Sutter <gsutter@pobox.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: "Open Source Town Meeting" supports only one faction Message-ID: <19980723123329.52636@follo.net> In-Reply-To: <19980722152643.H15764@notabene.zer0.org>; from Gregory Sutter on Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 03:26:43PM -0700 References: <199807220608.AAA00964@obie.softweyr.com> <19980721184615.A15764@notabene.zer0.org> <199807220608.AAA00964@obie.softweyr.com> <19980722020343.C15764@notabene.zer0.org> <199807221513.JAA04373@lariat.lariat.org> <19980722152643.H15764@notabene.zer0.org>
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On Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 03:26:43PM -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 09:13:47AM -0600, Brett Glass wrote:
> > Nope, it's communist. He wants all software development to be done
> > by collectives that are subservient to the Supreme Soviet (oops,
> > I mean the FSF).
>
> Now you're obviously just ranting. First, there's nothing wrong with
> a collective working on a project. Isn't that how FreeBSD has been
> built?
No, it actually isn't. FreeBSD has been built (for a large part) from
enlightened self-interest. My motivation for the
not-immediately-needed work I do on FreeBSD is
(1) It is fun :-)
(2) I can "buy goodwill" from the community, meaning that as I do
work, I'm more likely to get help if I'm stuck
(3) Keeping noise down - by fixing the things that create
noise/problems, I can help keep the general development along
(4) General sense of engineering aestethics, and the hope that this
will keep development speed up.
(5) I like helping people :-)
All of it lead up to my own interest, which tend towards creating
great products based on FreeBSD. I'm not contributing because of some
collective forcing me to do it "for the benefit of society" - I'm
doing it out of my own interest.
> Second, nothing in the GPL has anything to do with subservience. If
> people accept the GPL, then the information will be free forever.
> If not, that's their choice. There's no hierarchy there.
The software won't be "free" forever - only 50 years after the death
of the programmer (this may be changed to 100 years - there was some
talk of changing the international agreement, but I never got the
conclusion). Then it enter the public domain, and become truly free
(and also possible to base properitary products on again).
And we're talking a sort of hierarchy - "the benefits to society"
placed over "the benefits to the individuals of the society". This is
sometimes good, sometimes bad - but it should be recognized.
> I seem to have chosen the wrong word. :) I did say, however, that some
> of his ideas are "on the edge of acceptability", which is a definition
> of extreme. He may be right, though -- for most instances of
> intellectual property, there is really no need for ownership.
> Unfortunately, this view is incompatible with capitalism. That
> doesn't make it something to be reviled. Most people who immediately
> ridicule RMS's ideas are never fully cognizant of their implications.
This goes for all ideas and all persons.
As for "incompatible with capitalism", that brings a sour taste to my
mouth. In most cases it seems the alternative is to place all your
eggs in one basket, pulling the society together to be one "virtual
organism" instead of multiple competing ones. Without correct growth
checks (and I've never seen any state having this), this inevitably
lead to the wrong parts growing and creating more and more red tape.
I think the need for intellectual property is the same as the need for
physical property - I can see it deriving from the exact same causes.
If you don't think of the right to hold property as a god-given right,
you'll find that the causes and effects are about equal for physical
and intellectual property.
Eivind.
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