Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:42:06 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Graeme Tait <graeme@echidna.com>, Studded <Studded@gorean.org> Cc: FreeBSD-Newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: upgrading notes Message-ID: <19981020114206.I433@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <362BBD20.4B26@echidna.com>; from Graeme Tait on Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 03:28:48PM -0700 References: <19981019180600.39400@welearn.com.au> <362B79C3.EAA3607E@gorean.org> <362BBD20.4B26@echidna.com>
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On Monday, 19 October 1998 at 15:28:48 -0700, Graeme Tait wrote:
> Studded wrote:
>>
>> Sue Blake wrote:
>>
>> Overall I think this is right on, just a few comments.
>>
>>> My suggestions for newbies are:
>>>
>>> - Don't try to be first kid on the block with a new version.
>>> Let the expert and the gullible fall into any holes first.
>>
>> I would extend this to say, "Never install a FreeBSD -RELEASE." I don't
>> remember the last time a -Release didn't create a bunch of errors due to
>> last minute cramming in of things. Watch the -Stable mailing list (for
>> 2.2.x) and wait for things to calm down a bit after the -Release and
>> then install the latest -Stable.
>
> Well, this business of FreeBSD versions certainly is confusing for
> this newbie. My understanding is that what gets issued with Greg
> Lehey's book is -RELEASE (mine being 2.2.6R).
>
> So are you saying, don't use the CD-ROMs you get with the book???
He appears to be. I certainly don't agree.
> Actually, are any of the CD-ROMs from Walnut Creek other than
> -RELEASE versions?
Yes, you can get snapshots. By definition they're less stable than
-RELEASE. You can't get -STABLE, because it's a continual business:
there are updates to -STABLE every day.
> You are certainly right about errors in -RELEASE in my case. I spent
> ages trying to get an install off a Sony CD-ROM drive. The system
> concerned (an old 486 bought at auction) is flaky and contains
> off-brand interfaces, etc., and I thought it was my hardware. For
> this reason, I didn't want to trouble people with dumb questions
> about my problem. Finally I used a SCSI CD-ROM and all was well. It
> was only much later that I accidentally discovered on the web site a
> notice saying that the boot floppy image for 2.2.6R was broken with
> respect to the Sony CD-ROM support, and all I had to do was download
> a new boot image. Of course, I probably should have tried to find
> and read the release notes (or whatever it was) first, but as a
> newbie on a first install, there was so much information saturation
> that I just wanted to put on the blinkers and forge ahead.
Correct, you should have read the release notes and the errata. But
any release of any software is going to have bugs in it.
> It seems to me that from a configuration control point of view, any
> final changes to a version to become a release should be necessary
> bug fixes ONLY, and that ideally the version concerned should be not
> be labelled a "release" until it had survived a decent period of
> real-world use with ZERO changes.
Any software which has survived a decent period of real-world use with
ZERO changes is out of date :-)
> After all, it's going to be out there for some reasonable time
> period cast in poycarbonate. Those who want the latest and greatest
> can always download it in advance of the CD-ROMs being issued.
Well, we *do* test software before we issue it. But testing can only
prove the presence of bugs, never their absence. When we release the
software, many times the number of people start using it, and they
have many times the diversity of hardware on their machines (including
a significant proportion of old hardware which none of the developers
use). As a result, after the release we find bugs which we haven't
seen before. These get fixed, but they're still on the CDs.
I should point out that these cases are exceptions. For 99% of users,
the software just installs without a hitch. For 1%, they can be a
real pain.
Getting back to the suggestion that Doug ("Studded") made: as I said,
I disagree. Install the -RELEASE, it's the easiest way to go, and it
works for just about everybody. If you're one of the 1%, or you're
really concerned about absolute stability, track -STABLE. This is an
ongoing occupation, and for service providers it almost automatically
entails more down time (reboots) than running -RELEASE. The only
difference is that you get to choose your downtime.
Greg
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