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Date:      Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:07:23 -0700
From:      Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org>
To:        darrenr@freebsd.org
Cc:        freebsd-current@freebsd.org, ticso@cicely.de, Ivan Voras <ivoras@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: ZFS melting under postgres...
Message-ID:  <47655B4B.6010902@samsco.org>
In-Reply-To: <4764F282.7030706@freebsd.org>
References:  <06CAC7FC-DB58-441D-A6E0-76D1D8133393@tamu.edu>	<86ir31xwlu.fsf@ds4.des.no>	<ADCCD5E6-A792-49B9-A346-753176C12F2E@tamu.edu>	<fjuljp$cvb$1@ger.gmane.org>	<476343B4.8080208@FreeBSD.org>	<fk09p8$b16$1@ger.gmane.org>	<86tzmk54tt.fsf@ds4.des.no>	<fk0ue7$bp$1@ger.gmane.org>	<476419CD.9070401@terranova.net>	<fk1j0l$o4l$1@ger.gmane.org>	<20071216024259.GI48684@cicely12.cicely.de> <4764F282.7030706@freebsd.org>

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Darren Reed wrote:
> Bernd Walter wrote:
> ...
>> One problem is with the data blocks beeing that big, when writing
>> 512 Byte you effectifly do a read-modify-write of a larger physical
>> block.
>> This can be handled quite well with larger FS block.
>> The much bigger problem is with power loss when writing such a
>> maintenence block.
>> You loose a very large area of logical blocks when this fails,
>> since a 4k maintenence block contains the allocation for several hundert
>> kB of logical data blocks.
>> In other words - you possibly loose data blocks that were not written
>> a long time and the database wouldn't expect a problem with that data.
>> Even for ZIL it is very questionable if you loose a large data area,
>> since the purpose is to have the data that was already sinced readable
>> after a power loss.
> ...
> 
> ZFS doesn't suffer from this problem because the design
> is to always write a new section of data rather than
> over write "current" data.
> 
> So if you lose power in the middle of a write to a data
> block, there is no damage to the old data.

... except with disks that write sectors via read-update-write on whole 
tracks at a time (i.e. all SATA/ATA disks and probably more and more 
SAS/SCSI disks as well these days).  The speed and density optimizations
that have been introduced to disks in the past 10 years don't come for
free; they directly impact reliability.  That's why you don't ever, ever
want to loose power to a disk subsystem that you consider critical.

Scott



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