Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:38:20 -0700
From:      Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
Cc:        chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Why did evolution fail? 
Message-ID:  <200209091938.g89JcP133606@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org>

next in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
> Dave Hayes wrote:
>> > It's a measure of shared cultural understanding, or, in
>> > more technical terms, the set of lowest entropy equalibria.
>> 
>> So, the people in the stock market share a Schelling point? Why
>> couldn't you just say "community"?
>
> Because it's not the same thing as a Schelling point.  If I had
> meant "community", I would have used the word "community".  What
> I meant was "Schelling point", so I said "Schelling point".
> [...examples...]
> As you can see, a Schelling point is a place that "everybody knows",
> but which was not arrived at by explicit agreement, but rather on a
> cutural basis of lowest mutal entropy.

Hmm, I prefer to call these "localized consensual realities". Thing
is, they are still arbitrary. ;)

>> > As such, it is never arbitrary.
>> 
>> Cultures are arbitrary, entropy is arbitrary, it's all arbitrary. ;)
>
> I'm surprised that you can ever get any useful work done; perhaps
> its because of an arbitrary perception of "useful"?  ;^).

Then there's the arbitrary perception of "work". I prefer to call it
"play" myself. ;)

>> >> > Professional: characterized by or conforming to the technical or
>> >> > ethical standards of a profession.
>> >>
>> >> Look at the definition of "profession", then get back to me.
>> >
>> > Luckily for me, I didn't use that word.
>> 
>> Yes you did, it's in your quote above.
>
> That's Webster's dictionary using the word, not me.  I used the
> word "professionally".

By indirection you used the word, since you a) typed it and b)
referred to it to define "professional". 

>> With most people, I would do the following. Take your argument that
>> "it is unethical not to care". This reduces to whether you feel that
>> allowing someone to do something unethical is the same as actually
>> doing something unethical. Normally I would point this out, and point
>> out that I think these two things are different. Attempting to impose
>> ethicality on someone may be just as unethical as being
>> unethical. There are numerous examples to illustrate this and
>> most people would just agree to disagree after they had been
>> presented.
>> 
>> This won't work for your case.
>
> Thanks!  I'm glad my behaviour isn't ARBITRARY...  8-).

It is.

BTW, since everything is arbitrary, "arbitrary" is meaningless. ;)

>> That's because it's not enough to argue on the surface. I have to
>> develop a linear space, assert my propositions as axioms on this
>> space, then prove this space can exist. Even once I do that, you are
>> so attached to the answer being a certain way, you'll find ways to
>> argue with each and every proposition I make. Now it's hard to resist
>> classifying you as one of those arrogant scientific worshippers who
>> refuse to listen to you unless you speak linear algebra. However, you
>> are dead set in your ways, and I've seen the lengths that the human
>> mind will go to rationalize their behavior. You can rationalize
>> anything if you try hard enough.
>
> That's an incorrect caracterization of me.  

Of course it is, to you. 

> You fail to grasp that rationalization is antithetical to my world
> view.

ROFL! From beginning to end this entire diatribe is one big
rationalization.

>> A mind in a state such as yours accepts no external input. It merely
>> tears everything apart as much as it can, attempting to discredit what
>> it cannot understand.
>
> Only that which can not be proven, independently of understanding.

And you hold the keys to decide what "can" and "cannot be"
proven. Beautiful. ;)

>> Thus, the correct way to behave to you is to be irrational, in a
>> rational way. =)
> That's the way you are trying to behave, I'd agree, but it's not
> the correct way to behave, if you are to make a convincing argument,

You presume I want to convince you. 

> nor is it possible to be truly irrational in a rational way, without
> the flaws in your model being externally visible to those who do not
> share it.

The flaws help to convince you that the model is irrational. ;)

>> > It's an apt analogy: "just ignore input you do not wish to observe".
>> 
>> Heh. That's what I've been saying for years. We aren't dealing with
>> experimental data here, just trolls. If you can do that with me, how
>> come you can't do this with trolls?
>
> Exactly.  You solution is the same as a childs, and works about as
> well, overall, which is to say "not at all, as a long term approach".

I thought the simplest solution to a problem was the best? ;)
------
Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<<

If, from time to time, you give up expectation...then you
will be able to perceive what it is that you are getting.



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message




Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200209091938.g89JcP133606>