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Date:      Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:45:05 -0800 (PST)
From:      Julian Elischer <julian@whistle.com>
To:        "Justin T. Gibbs" <gibbs@plutotech.com>
Cc:        "John S. Dyson" <toor@dyson.iquest.net>, Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>, dyson@FreeBSD.ORG, wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu, committers@FreeBSD.ORG, eivind@yes.no
Subject:   Re: devfs persistence 
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.95.980216114100.8949C-100000@current1.whistle.com>
In-Reply-To: <199802150234.TAA24906@pluto.plutotech.com>

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I like Justin's ideas.

I also like mikes ideas in some cases..
I think I can make something that will me a clean mix of these.

julian (been away 2 days skiing)

On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Justin T. Gibbs wrote:

> >It is an issue of being able to cleanly and straightforwardly support embedded
> >products.
> 
> The biggest advantages I see in DEVFS are the possibility to eliminate all
> of the unit->softc/static array translation cruft that is currently
> performed in the kernel as well as remove any device numbering limitations.
> Just take a look at all of the 32bit dev_t nonsense in the NetBSD lists to
> see how flawed the current approach is.
> 
> I think that the persistence problem with DEVFS is solvable and if/when it
> is proved to be so, why do we need to provide the old mechanism?
> 
> Here are my thoughts on the persistence problem:
> 
> 1) Use an underlying file per node, to represent permission and "whiteout"
> overrides.  The semantics for modification of these files will need some 
> thought.  For instance, if the DEVFS is not mounted on top of these files,
> you don't want to allow John Doe to be able to write to them.  I don't 
> think however, as someone once suggested, they should be "invisible".
> 
> 2) To handle special chroot environments (e.g. ftp), provide a special
> DEVFS mounting option.  This option would essentially say that no matter
> what devices exist in the system, only nodes that have a backing file will
> be shown.  To setup an FTP area, the sysadmin would have to setup these
> backing objects by perhaps mounting an additional instance of DEVFS in the
> target location, removing the devices that are not wanted, and using a
> utility to "checkpoint" the nodes that still exist.  Then, in /etc/fstab,
> add in the additional entry for the second instance of DEVFS with the
> option set.  The fact that "new devices" don't auto-magically show up in
> the chroot area is by design and is essentially the same behavior we have
> now (you have to perform a MAKEDEV in the chroot area to a new device show
> up).
> 
> 3) Only root should be able to mount a DEVFS.
> 
> 4) At secure levels above X (0???), additional DEVFS file system instances
> cannot be created.
> 
> --
> Justin
> 
> 
> 


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