Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:20:32 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Tony Johnson <gjohnson@gs.verio.net> Cc: Thomas David Rivers <rivers@dignus.com>, bright@wintelcom.net, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, kris@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: interesting problem Message-ID: <20000929112032.A4293@wantadilla.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <FOENIGAJAKGPLNGHHADIEENDDAAA.gjohnson@gs.verio.net>; from gjohnson@gs.verio.net on Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 07:54:01PM -0500 References: <200009281033.GAA42518@lakes.dignus.com> <FOENIGAJAKGPLNGHHADIEENDDAAA.gjohnson@gs.verio.net>
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[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 19:54:01 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: > On Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:33 AM, Thomas David Rivers wrote: >> Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net> wrote: >>> >>> * Tony Johnson <gjohnson@gs.verio.net> [000927 18:26] wrote: >>>> OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get >>>> a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel >>>> config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or >>>> even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really >>>> like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb >>>> since some people think I just haven't read it. >>>> >>>> At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of >>>> the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a >>>> crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would >>>> appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by >>>> sending you a crash dump. >>> >>> Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing >>> around cluelessly on the list demanding help? >>> >>> Here's a clue: >>> >>> Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, >>> then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug >>> kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a >>> patch. >>> >>> Or you could simply run -stable. >> >> Alfred, >> >> Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial >> install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most >> knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the >> install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building >> a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... >> >> Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, >> being able to gather debugging information during a failed >> install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could >> happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? >> Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that >> reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] >> Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? >> >> I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the >> ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... Certainly it would be a nice idea. We have plenty of cases where a -CURRENT system might have difficulties booting. In general we solve the problem in one of two ways: 1. Build a kernel with debugger support and analyse what the problem is. 2. Work around it long enough to get the system to a point where you can take dumps. This is the approach Alfred is suggesting. I don't think this has much to to with the current situation: based on the evidence we have seen, it seems that Tony has tried to boot a release snapshot of -CURRENT. It failed. Coincidentally, he has also disabled IDE support in the belief that this might buy him something. Now he comes and claims that there is a connection between these two events, but he doesn't give us any evidence. > I really did not want to reply to this but since some people believe > that I am just see-ing things, then I will set this straight. I don't think anybody claims you're seeing things. > I have a dual PPro-200 systems. aha-3950u2 scsi card. Teflon > cables from scsi-cables.com. Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs > FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out. Maybe you should change the teflon cables. > I have been running FreeBSD for years... I ran 3.0 and 4.0 when > they were /current and I never had these problems. I cannot even > get the thing (5.0-Current in recent days) to boot from boot > floppies that you put on > ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386. If you are > producing an OS that does not boot on /current then say this > publicly and not curse me out for your production of a non > functional product. For public record: we are not producing an OS that does not boot. We're prepared to believe that you're unable to boot it, but you're not doing anything to get people to help you. > I'm sure I could produce a set of non-functioning asm code that just > crashes peoples machines, if your idea of development is this. I > don't believe that I need to write an email list for this. No, of course not. In fact, saying things like that really discredits you. > I have a better idea, how about an option on the install to save > buffer cache to a floppy disk , or atleast the portion that caused > the automatic reboot??? Gdb anyone? A typical machine nowadays has 128 MB of memory. That would just about fit on an LS-120, but you'd need about 90 floppies to dump to. That doesn't make sense. My personal feeling is that you should take Alfred's advice and try to boot without disabling IDE. It may or may not work. If it doesn't, you'll know you're wrong about connecting the two events. If it does, it'll give you a system which is usable for debugging the problem. > If you need more information from me about my product then please > ask me and I will say so. I thought we were talking about a product, not a problem you're having. Maybe it's time to remind people about -CURRENT: Many users compile almost daily from FreeBSD-CURRENT sources, but there are times when the sources are uncompilable. The problems are always resolved, but others can take their place. On occasion, keeping up with FreeBSD-CURRENT can be a full-time business. If you use -CURRENT, you should be prepared to spend a lot of time keeping the system running. In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have the problem. It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make unsubstantiated claims and blame other people. On the contrary, it makes people think you're a jerk. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
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