Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:34:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Phillips <chris@selkie.org> To: Kevin Oberman <oberman@es.net> Cc: John Kendler <fbsdquestions@hotmail.com>, questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Any mail server software that could run on FreeBSD? Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0104271310400.7719-100000@shell.bchosting.com> In-Reply-To: <200104271735.f3RHZCc07548@ptavv.es.net>
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On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Kevin Oberman wrote: *SNIP* > > I have to disagree with you chief. Every install of FreeBSD since I > > started using it around 2.1.5 (I think?) has had a default install of > > sendmail. > > It's called inertia, not recommendation. Until fairly recently > sendmail with THE MTA for Unix systems. There were no real > alternatives and, with no alternatives, sendmail was made a part of the > FreeBSD base distribution. Since then, at least two MTAs of reasonable > design for general use have been developed. There is significant > opinion that sendmail is NOT the best, but switching the default > mailer is not a trivial thing. It will be very tricky to do this and > not break lots of installed systems. > > NetBSD has recently changed their default mailer to postfix and there > has been discussion of the same for FreeBSD, but I doubt it will > happen because the FreeBSD core team rightly places great importance > on not breaking things for the installed user base and I don't think > that there is any tool to translate a .cf file (or even a .mc file) > into a postfix configuration. With the amount of sendmail users out there, I would be surprised if this didn't make new users or those who have never used postfix before shy away from NetBSD. I'm very much under the opinion that when you have the size of market share that sendmail does, there would be better help resources. I know for a fact that there is a ton of documentation on sendmail and of course the O'Reilly book. Last time I checked there were no such books on exim, postfix or qmail. Maybe that has changed, but having a book published by O'Reilly on a piece of software is usually a pretty good indication that it is a widely used piece of software. > This is not relevant to the issue of a new user trying to decide what > tool to use. And it certainly should not be taken as any sort of > recommendation from either the FreeBSD community or the core team (of > which I am not a member nor can I speak for). It certainly can not be taken as "Don't use this software" either. If there was any security risks of using it or that it wouldn't do what it needed to do, I am sure they would find a new solution. > > > I'd look at qmail, postfix, and sendmail. I suspect you will decide to > > > ditch sendmail after a week of trying to understand configuration > > > files, but you may love them. :-) If you don't need anything special, > > > the defaults do work. MC files make life much easier than in the old > > > days, too. > > > > Sendmail isn't really that hard and I find it MUCH more versatile than > > qmail, especially when it comes to virtual users. > > I agree with you that there are some significant limitation to Qmail, > but if these limits are not relevant to your use, qmail might be a > perfectly good choice. My experience with it is very limited, so I > don't know. > > > > Qmail and postfix are MUCH easier to configure and Postfix was written > > > with security in mind from the beginning by the guy at IBM who brought > > > us tcpwrappers, so tends to do the right things from the start with > > > little chance of buffer overflow problems and the like. > > > > Configuration ease is a matter of opinion. > > Agreed, though I suspect that, of those who have used both postfix > and sendmail, few would call sendmail configuration easier including > some who use sendmail. (FWIW, I prefer postfix, but still use sendmail > on many systems because it works and "it ain't broke".) I'm not sure I would agree with you. Jordan is nice enough to setup a nicely configured sendmail with every default install. Editing two seperate files is not what I would call hard. One file you insert the hostname to which the server is supposed to route mail and the second you map the mail. I'm not sure it could get much easier. Downloading, untar'ing, configuring, compiling the source and then configuring the actual mailer would probably be a much more daunting task for a new user, as this person stated he is if my memory serves me correctly. > > > But make your own choice because, other than personal opinions, none > > > is "recommended". > > > > I do not believe any single piece of software has had such a drastic > > rewrite of code. Sendmail itself has been quite secure for quite some > > time. The only issue that comes to mind in recent memory was an issue > > that was Linux specific. > > Possibly true. The line count of code in 8.11 that was in 5.6 is > probably very small. > > > I think you will find that sendmail is more robust than any of it's > > counterparts as well as FAR more widely used world wide. > > It is certainly the most widely used, but popularity is not a measure > of quality. Vox populi is a terribly common argument that is almost > always invalid. Even in US presidential elections. :-) When was the last time you used sendmail, or better yet, have you ever used it to the point where it did everything you wanted it to? I'm not sure how you can determine the quality of the software as anything less than the others. It's secure and far more robust than any of the other mailers. I suggest running it for a while. I don't think you would disagree with me after that time. Running several thousand virtual mailing on the others would be completely out of the question. > Since popularity is important, I guess you also recommend switching to > Windows? :-) Depends on the person. Windows has all the bells and whistles out of the box, much like sendmail on an install of FreeBSD. Asking my parents to download, install, etc FreeBSD would be an insane request. Windows is the right solution for them as well as I'm sure more than 95% of all PC users in America. > > I personally dislike qmail and postfix as well and the not brought up > > exim and I have valid reasons for my opinions. Long live sendmail! > > Feel free to use sendmail and to recommend it. It's good software and > has been beaten on far more than any other. I will continue to use > postfix for new installations until/unless I am convinced that there > is a better choice and will continue to recommend it to others. Just > don't imply any consensus on it being the best choice unless you are > privy to some information I am not. I'm not sure you've made your point to me that postfix or any other mailer is the best solution and that sendmail isn't. It may not be for the faint of heart, but it is for high-volume servers and it is the easiest out of the box solution. The more and more I read your comments the more it leads me to believe you've not used sendmail recently or ever. -Chris Phillips To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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