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Date:      Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:21:37 -0700
From:      "Paul M . Lambert" <plambert@plambert.net>
To:        stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Roasting Newbies
Message-ID:  <19991014012137.C16450@pinky.plambert.net>
In-Reply-To: <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com>
References:  <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org> <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910100855200.37470-100000@enya.clari.net.au> <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com> <v04205502b426c455aa8b@[195.238.21.204]> <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com>

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On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
> > 
> >         IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd
> > mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an
> > automated response.
> 
> Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using
> alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case
> of this being implemented.
> 

Perhaps there is a better idea.

There are a number of people on the lists who are technically competent
and have a reasonable understanding of the way FreeBSD works.  They can
easily answer most of the newbies' questions and point them (gently
at first, and later with the Thunderous LART of Righteousness) to the
correct places to get their answers.  Many of these people are currently
doing this.

There are a number of people on the lists who are even more
technically competent, or perhaps equally competent but differently
inclined, who can leap tall device drivers in a single bound, and have
the in-depth knowledge necessary to solve amazingly specific problems.

The latter group are the people we're trying to protect, if I understand
things correctly.  I don't want the people with commit access to have
to wade through piles of messages about "how do I get FreeBSD to install
on my Winblows '02 box?" when they'd be happier (and more productive--I'm
being essentially selfish here ;-) looking at stack traces and so forth.

We can't scare the latter group away by exposing them to the newbies.
We can't scare the newbies away by exposing them to the latter group.
What if the former group (the "competents") were to step in as a line
of defense for the latter group (the "gurus").  I use the names lightly,
for lack of a better set of labels.

Specifically, when a newbie sends a question to the list, perhaps someone
who is pretty sure they know the answer and pretty sure they have time to
field it, could simply reply.  I, for example, am useless to the FreeBSD
movement in most ways.  I can read the lists, and understand what's
being said, but I couldn't write a piece of C to save my life.  I _could_,
however, put together a boilerplate set of replies and throw them at
people when they needed them.

Now, you're all thinking, "How is this different from the way things
work now?  Silly plambert, no biscuit."

However, what if, in my reply, I were to make it a _real_ reply (I and
my peers probably know how to do that, and probably use mailers that do it for us) with an
appropriate In-Reply-To: header.  So it threads correctly.  And we
could add a "X-Handled:" header.  Or "[HANDLED]" to the Subject:.

Why?  So that the people who don't care to read questions that have
been asked and answered before can ignore that entire thread.  Heck,
with some creativity, most of the "gurus" could delete threads that
have been handled.  So they wouldn't have to deal with them.

The "gurus" that don't have threaded email readers could still fake
it...  It'd be easy enough to make procmail and perl go back and add
the header and/or subject-tag to the original message if a reply comes
through with the header and/or subject-tag.

Now, this is just an idea I'm having late at night.  There are millions
of reasons why it can't work.  I just can't come up with them at the moment.

I'm sure someone will tell me.  ;-)

But the advantages are that things still work basically the same as they
do now.  Anyone can post.  Anyone can answer any question.  Newbies get
swift responses.  Etc.  I'm sure there will be differences of opinion
on whether given topics are handled, but those differences of opinion
will exist in any system.

--plambert

-- 
I hate bombs, terrorism, fear, plans, future and past injustices, manifestos,
popular sentiment, ignition, timetables, meetings, and poorly adjusted
weasels.  A warm hello to my friends and fans in domestic surveillance!


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