Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:37:46 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Tiananmen square (was: Does it's true?) Message-ID: <19980630153746.V1880@freebie.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <199806300547.XAA24892@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Mon, Jun 29, 1998 at 11:47:31PM -0600 References: <19980630132454.S1880@freebie.lemis.com> <199806300547.XAA24892@softweyr.com>
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On Monday, 29 June 1998 at 23:47:31 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > My hidden microphone recorded Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) saying: > >> On Monday, 29 June 1998 at 21:45:36 -0600, Wes Peters wrote: >>> My hidden microphone recorded Greg Lehey (grog@lemis.com) saying: >>> >>>> 1. Forced abortion and forced sterilization. For Christians, of >>>> course, an abomination. In China, quite possibly law. Yes, I can >>>> believe they do this. After seeing what has happened in the 30 >>>> years between my two visits to India, I can understand the Chinese >>>> view. >>> >>> There are absolute wrongs in this life, and the killing of innocents >>> is at the top of the list. >> >> Well, we could discuss that, but let's take it for now. OK. Based on >> that logic, which is worse: killing a thousand innocents or a million? > > Neither. It's a binary function, like being pregnant. I beg to differ. I think most people would. >>>> 2. "Simply killed outright". Did she bring documentation of this as >>>> well? How often? Where? Why? If they had the power to kill, >>>> they had the power to anaesthetize and sterilize. >>> >>> Yes, she did. It apparently happened "several times" in her tenure, with >>> women who were so hysterical the clinic staff could not deal with them. % > The >>> clinic staff called the police, and the police killed these women. This % > was >>> apparently done to discourage violent resistance. These killings were >>> apparently documented in the medical records of these women kept by the >>> clinic. >> >> Hmm. Where? > > You didn't read my original posting. She managed to bring several years of > records from the clinic with her. This was all recorded in the official > records of the clinic, even the deaths of two of the women she alleged were > killed by police. Sure I read your message, though you didn't use the word "two" before. My question was in a geographical sense. Where did all this happen? In the USA you'd immediately see a difference between Massachusetts, South Carolina, Miami, Salt Lake City or Los Angeles. It's the same in China. >> Hmm. At this stage I can't see a big difference between police >> shooting hysterical women and the "accidental" fatal police shootings >> which happen more often than people would like to admit even in >> countries with good human rights records. > > Yeah, we've had a rash of those around here this year. One teenage girl was > shot to death as her compatriots in car theft jumped over a fence. She got > stuck on the fence and jumped back down on the side where the police were > chasing her, with a "weapon" in her hand. The "weapon" turned out to be a > hair brush, for which she died. That pretty much puts the Salt Lake County > sheriff's department on firm footing along with the state police in China, as > far as I'm concerned. One of the big differences is that here we can, and > WILL, get the sonofabitch thrown out of office. It's nice to have a publicly > sanctioned revolution every 4 or 6 years. > > A major difference in the Chinese case was the women who were shot at the > clinic were confined in a cage in the clinic at the time; they certainly > weren't threatening the police officials in any way locked in a cage. Details. It's a binary function: in each case a police official overstepped his responsibilities. One of these days they'll get round to calling them to justice, even in China. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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