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Date:      Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:47:37 -0400
From:      Nick Evans <nevans@nextvenue.com>
To:        'Siobhan Patricia Lynch' <trish@bsdunix.net>
Cc:        "'freebsd-security@freebsd.org'" <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>
Subject:   RE: ipf or ipfw (was: log with dynamic firewall rules
Message-ID:  <712384017032D411AD7B0001023D799B07CA71@sn1exchmbx.nextvenue.com>

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Yeah as far as I know, ipf does NOT work with bridging under FreeBSD,
unfortunately.

-----Original Message-----
From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch [mailto:trish@bsdunix.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:51 AM
To: Nick Evans
Cc: 'freebsd-security@freebsd.org'
Subject: RE: ipf or ipfw (was: log with dynamic firewall rules


I'm not sure, never tried it, I *know* it works with OpenBSD which would
be my choice if using ipf anyway.

-Trish

__

Trish Lynch
FreeBSD - The Power to Serve 		trish@bsdunix.net
Rush Networking				trish@rush.net

On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Nick Evans wrote:

> It wouldn't work with ipf, period. IPF doesn't support bridging in FreeBSD
> 4, no? or is your bridging in reference to something else?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch [mailto:trish@bsdunix.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:31 AM
> To: Darren Reed
> Cc: Reinoud; Gerhard Sittig; freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
> Subject: Re: ipf or ipfw (was: log with dynamic firewall rules)
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that ipf is bad, in fact, prior to keep-state and
> check-state in ipfw, I used ipf quite a bit.
> 
> again, *some* people here know who I work for, but the networking going
> into sites looks like this:
> 
> cisco (non-stateful) -> freebsd bridging ipfw -> arrowpoint web content
> switch -> clusters
> 
> ipfw works quite well, but wouldn;t in this situation prior to freebsd 4.0
> 
> if theres something absolutely amazing in the next version if ipf that
> makes my life hella better at work, I'll use it ;)
> 
> as it is, I'm using OpenBSD/IPSec to tunnel and bridge packets from exodus
> to the office (well not quite yet, but we have the go ahead on that
> project) , which is irony, those who know who I am will agree ;)
> 
> -Trish
> 
> __
> 
> Trish Lynch
> FreeBSD - The Power to Serve 		trish@bsdunix.net
> Rush Networking				trish@rush.net
> 
> On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Darren Reed wrote:
> 
> > In some mail from Siobhan Patricia Lynch, sie said:
> > > 
> > > I actually use ipfw for everything, I can;t see any real advantage to
> > > ipfilter in a situation that we're using it for (some people know
> > > where I work)
> > > 
> > > ipfilter has to be flushed and reloaded, I don;t have that luxury
> > > 
> > > ipfw I can add rules on the fly.
> > 
> > You can do that with ipfilter too.
> > 
> > In fact, ipfilter allows you to make complete ruleset changes, on the
> > fly with 0 security risk (i.e. there is no gap of "half your rules
> > being in place").
> > 
> > Even at bootup, you can go from "no rules, default = block" to
> > "full ruleset" and not have any packets slip between the cracks
> > as various lines get added to allow/deny things.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Yeah as far as I know, ipf does NOT work with =
bridging under FreeBSD, unfortunately.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:trish@bsdunix.net">mailto:trish@bsdunix.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:51 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Nick Evans</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc: 'freebsd-security@freebsd.org'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: ipf or ipfw (was: log with dynamic =
firewall rules</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm not sure, never tried it, I *know* it works with =
OpenBSD which would</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>be my choice if using ipf anyway.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-Trish</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>__</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Trish Lynch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>FreeBSD - The Power to Serve &nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trish@bsdunix.net</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rush Networking =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trish@rush.net</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Nick Evans wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; It wouldn't work with ipf, period. IPF doesn't =
support bridging in FreeBSD</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 4, no? or is your bridging in reference to =
something else?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Siobhan Patricia Lynch [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:trish@bsdunix.net">mailto:trish@bsdunix.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 11:31 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: Darren Reed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Cc: Reinoud; Gerhard Sittig; =
freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: ipf or ipfw (was: log with dynamic =
firewall rules)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I'm not saying that ipf is bad, in fact, prior =
to keep-state and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; check-state in ipfw, I used ipf quite a =
bit.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; again, *some* people here know who I work for, =
but the networking going</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; into sites looks like this:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; cisco (non-stateful) -&gt; freebsd bridging =
ipfw -&gt; arrowpoint web content</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; switch -&gt; clusters</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ipfw works quite well, but wouldn;t in this =
situation prior to freebsd 4.0</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; if theres something absolutely amazing in the =
next version if ipf that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; makes my life hella better at work, I'll use it =
;)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; as it is, I'm using OpenBSD/IPSec to tunnel and =
bridge packets from exodus</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to the office (well not quite yet, but we have =
the go ahead on that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; project) , which is irony, those who know who I =
am will agree ;)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -Trish</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; __</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Trish Lynch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; FreeBSD - The Power to Serve&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trish@bsdunix.net</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Rush =
Networking&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trish@rush.net</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Darren Reed wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; In some mail from Siobhan Patricia Lynch, =
sie said:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; I actually use ipfw for everything, I =
can;t see any real advantage to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; ipfilter in a situation that we're =
using it for (some people know</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; where I work)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; ipfilter has to be flushed and =
reloaded, I don;t have that luxury</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; ipfw I can add rules on the =
fly.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; You can do that with ipfilter too.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; In fact, ipfilter allows you to make =
complete ruleset changes, on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; fly with 0 security risk (i.e. there is no =
gap of &quot;half your rules</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; being in place&quot;).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Even at bootup, you can go from &quot;no =
rules, default =3D block&quot; to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &quot;full ruleset&quot; and not have any =
packets slip between the cracks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; as various lines get added to allow/deny =
things.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; To Unsubscribe: send mail to =
majordomo@FreeBSD.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; with &quot;unsubscribe =
freebsd-security&quot; in the body of the message</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To Unsubscribe: send mail to =
majordomo@FreeBSD.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; with &quot;unsubscribe freebsd-security&quot; =
in the body of the message</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
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