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Date:      Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:46:52 -0300
From:      H <hm@hm.net.br>
To:        freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Why Are You NOT Using FreeBSD ?
Message-ID:  <201206120646.59491.hm@hm.net.br>
In-Reply-To: <7B6E5361-B109-498E-B22F-96A94DEC371B@mac.com>
References:  <CAOgwaMvsv3e1TxDauV038Pp7LRiYeH7oAODE%2Bw-pxHt9oGrXMA@mail.gmail.com> <201206112335.q5BNZGPT029709@hugeraid.jetcafe.org> <7B6E5361-B109-498E-B22F-96A94DEC371B@mac.com>

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On Monday 11 June 2012 20:59 Chuck Swiger wrote:
> Hi, Dave--
>=20
> On Jun 11, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Dave Hayes wrote:
> [ ... ]
>=20
> > Do I have this wrong? Anyone see a problem with this picture?
> > What can we do to "just upgrade" in a safe fashion when we want to?
>=20
> Two things help tremendously:
>=20
> #1: Have working backups.  If you run into a problem, roll back the
> system to a working state.  If you cannot restore a working system
> easily, fix your backup solution until you can rollback easily.
>=20
> #2: Have a package-building box and test builds before installing
> new package builds to other boxes.  Your downtime for upgrades
> to the rest of your boxes become minimized.
>=20
> Regards,


of course it helps ...

but please do not forget that most people just want their desktop up to dat=
e=20
and have a working kde (or any other) environment

I believe the ports tree simply must? should? be seen as it is, partially g=
ood=20
working, and partially a jorney to very dark places , depends on which port=
s=20
and how many  you have installed=20

in any case it is for somebody who knows what he does and can find his way =
out,=20
or is courageous, a "normal desktop user" probably is not able to upgrade k=
de4=20
properly and ends up with an unusable machine



On Monday 11 June 2012 20:20 Dave Hayes wrote:
> Rainer Duffner <rainer@ultra-secure.de> writes:
> > Sometimes, options only make sense in context of the selection of
> > options of other ports and it thus may no be easily explainable in one
> > line.
>=20
> I don't understand Are you saying this is a reason not to document what
> these options do?


both here deepen the "lead into the dark" theory


On Sunday 10 June 2012 14:10 O. Hartmann wrote:
> "portmaster" does even more damage. Sometimed a port reels in some newly
> updates, a port gets deleted. if on of the to be updated prerquisits
> fail, the port in question isn't there anymore.


this is caused of ports tree's install script maior logic failure, BTW by=20
portmaster AND portupgrade and it happens quite often,=20

as already commented, nobody sits in front of the screen and watch the comp=
ile=20
process so this problems go under at first sight

I think, correcting this, would help a lot and may solve a lot of existing=
=20
[hidden] problems.=20

I see only one way, having a complete package collection for easy upgrade

most of you do not like it, but you must look at the competitors, Fedoras=20
upgrade system works, user do not need the newest features and none of them=
=20
are essential for a desktop to work properly

of course the package collection needs then something similar to portversio=
n,=20
but not based on ports tree versions, in order to find available updates

who then wants to customize or learn or who dares, can use the ports tree

after all I guess any further effort on ports goes nowhere because it depen=
ds=20
at the end on the maintainer and/or committer and people use to fail, that =
is=20
so and nobody can change that.=20

Of course It would be nice to find this "eval" behaviour of deleting=20
accidentially installed ports corrected

what is worth working on is a complete package collection and a propper upd=
ate=20
tool for it


Hans






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