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Date:      Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:27:37 -0500 (EST)
From:      Robert Watson <robert@cyrus.watson.org>
To:        "Ilmar S. Habibulin" <ilmar@ints.ru>
Cc:        freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: ACL-0.1.1.tgz: updated for -CURRENT, some bugfixes
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.3.96.991207101916.16441D-100000@fledge.watson.org>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.9912071028190.5153-100000@ws-ilmar.ints.ru>

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On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Ilmar S. Habibulin wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Robert Watson wrote:
> 
> > As you may have seen in my recent post, I agree that disk storage is
> > something we need to address ASAP, and the best approach is probably
> > extended attributes.  I'd like to see support for ACL, CAP and MAC in the
> > VFS interface directly, however, and finalize that API in time for the 4.0
> > feature freeze, even if we don't get storage ready by 4.0.
> It would be centralized development, not just incoherent patches. And
> there would be very nice to reimplement access control scheme in
> freebsd. Do some reference monitor.

The problem with a cvs repository of our own is that then we have to
intermittently synch with the central repository and lose our repository
history (I don't believe CVS easily allowed for parallel vendor
development trees which pick up both sets of changes?)  Once I get a first
useful version of ACLs out the door for -current in the next few days, I'd
be willing to move to this, however.  

> > In the extended attribute scheme, these would be backed onto the extattr
> > vop calls, although the syscall code on top would not see that
> > happening--meaning that ACLs are visible in the VFS scheme, not just
> > attributes (which would also be visible in VFS).
> > 
> > Does this make sense to you?
> I don't know. The thing is that MAC differs from DAC too much. It have
> another aproach of getiing/setting labels, so sometimes mac label should
> not be visiable or settable. If we can reserve some space, that would be
> accessed only by the kernel through vop_extattr interface, and everything
> else would be accessable from the userspace through this interace. I'm
> afraid, that MAC implemetation without such limits will beak the
> NoWriteDown rule of BLMs' MAC.

In a more recent post (I think just to -arch) I outlined a possible access
control mechanism for the attributes.  This largely consisted of a flag
which chose between "owner-writables/readable" and
"kernel-writable/readable", the idea being that in the first mode,
modification to the attributes via standard attribute syscalls would be
permitted (within the limitations imposed by the fs mount status and
permission set, such as read-only), but in the second mode it would be
appropriate for storing security-sensitive information such as DAC and MAC
information, as it would be neither modifiable nor readable by userland
processes, except through the vops in kernel.

This flag (still in the proposed stage) would be set per-file system,
per-attribute, and would be declared when that attribute was initially
configured for the file system.

> PS. What does freebsd project leaders think about all that posix stuff and 
> our efforts?

My impression has been that ACLs, capabilities, and auditing are of great
interest.  I haven't seen all that much interest in MAC, but I'm sure once
people see the possibilities, they will be more interested.  (For those
reading and wondering, one possible answer is to assign a MAC level to
each securelevel, and now objects associated with that securelevel are now
immune to modifications by higher securelevels in an integrity model --
unlike the noschg flag, this has well defined semantics for how to modify
and not modify files in various process environments, what processes may
debug/not debug other processes, etc.  This would require an explicit
declassification process, but I'm sure we can think it through more once
we have the facility).  So as such, my impression is the answer is
"supportive and interested", but perhaps someone reading this could
enlighten us :-). 

  Robert N M Watson 

robert@fledge.watson.org              http://www.watson.org/~robert/
PGP key fingerprint: AF B5 5F FF A6 4A 79 37  ED 5F 55 E9 58 04 6A B1
TIS Labs at Network Associates, Safeport Network Services



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