Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:09:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Lanny Baron <lnb@freedom.cybertouch.org> To: Mike Avery <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com> Cc: Alex Zepeda <garbanzo@hooked.net>, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Certification...again Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907121805140.91731-100000@freedom.cybertouch.org> In-Reply-To: <199907122201.RAA23501@hostigos.otherwhen.com>
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I agree with you in part. Try this though. Send a resume to top financial
or Insurance companies here and see the reply you get without any type of
formal training and/or degree/certification.
And yes you are right, a chef has certification...but not the type needed
to take over a sys admin job. Of course if you get into a small company
where you meet the sys admin, he/she will know in a few minutes whether or
not you know what is needed.
On the other hand, a human resources person, may have a hard time knowing
much more than turning on and off, their workstation (and even that can be
a major feat for some of them).
Lanny
On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Mike Avery wrote:
On 12 Jul 99, at 17:36, Lanny Baron wrote:
> With all due respect, I totally disagree with Mike. I got to know the
> system administrator for @home.com in Canada. He told me that with
> certification like Sun for example, they would hire me up in a flash. He
> asked me if FreeBSD has certification. I told him, not to my knowledge at
> this time.
Since you didn't quote any of my message, I'm not sure if you're
disagreeing with me or Alex. Alex thinks all certifications are bogus.
I think they have limited usefulness, especially in getting a job.
I also think some certifications are worth more in some markets
than others.
Will a "Mr. GoodWrench" certification help get someone a job at the
hospital? Or a MSCE certificate in most Unix shops? Or a Sun
certification in a NetWare shop?
The first decision to make is, "What do I want to do?" The second
is, "Which, if any, certifications will help me? Either professionally,
or in just getting a job?" The next question is whether it's worth
the effort.
In some markets, it's not only worth it, it's all but essential, whether
you like it or not. If that bothers you, ignore those markets.
> Mike it's quite possible (as I do not have the honor of knowing your
> personally) that you have quite a bit of experience in the IT field and/or
> you have a degree from a University. The degree could be in basket
> weaving. However, it clearly says, Mike can sit on his tush and do what it
> takes to get this piece of paper.
> That in itself is worth a lot.
I have a degree. In photography, with minors in philosophy,
psychology, and industrial education. (Don't ask... it's a long story.)
About the time I got my degree, the first micro kits became
available. So, I also took some programming courses so I'd be able
to program the silly thing when it was built. And then I worked for
years as a programmer.
As you said, the degree shows I am willing to learn. And that is
worth a lot.
Industry certifications say much the same thing. That a person is
willing to learn more about their profession.
I strongly feel that the trend towards certification mills decreases
the value of the certification. The original goal of the certifications
was to take a person that is already "computer literate" (I HATE
that phrase) and train them in THIS particular technology, whether
that's a database, an OS, a NOS, router management, a language, or
whatever and then test them to certify that they knew enough to be
useful.
When the certificate becomes the goal in and of itself, and when the
training isn't designed to teach you to understand the technology,
but instead focuses on how to pass the flippin' test, then the student
and the company that hires that student are being ripped off.
However..... there IS a simple answer. When you are hiring someone,
don't filter just on two, three, and four letter acronyms. Let
degrees and certification be part of the overall evaluation. Take the
finalists on a tour of the place. Show 'em your setup. Ask 'em
questions. If you're any good, you'll soon know if they know what
you need 'em to. And if they have the background to pick it up
quickly enough to be of use.
Mike
======================================================================
Mike Avery MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
(409)-842-2942 (work)
ICQ: 16241692
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
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