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Date:      Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:55:54 -0500
From:      Garance A Drosihn <drosih@rpi.edu>
To:        Brian Somers <brian@Awfulhak.org>, Mike Smith <mike@smith.net.au>
Cc:        freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: ps on 4.0-current
Message-ID:  <v04210100b4625286fee1@[128.113.24.47]>
In-Reply-To: <199911240803.IAA89224@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>
References:  <199911240803.IAA89224@hak.lan.Awfulhak.org>

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At 8:03 AM +0000 11/24/99, Brian Somers wrote:
> > This was discussed close to death before the changes were committed,
> > and the current behaviour (restricted access) has been agreed by
> > general consensus to be the most appropriate.
>
>My reading of the thread was ``I'm going to cache ps args to stop all
>the delving into user space to do a ps'', ``but what about the -e
>option'', ``ok, I'll make that inaccessible unless you have
>permission''.
>
>I stopped reading the -e thread because I believe it's a good thing to
>restrict this.  I completely missed that the conversation had moved
>on to ``hey, who needs ps args anyway'', and I'm sure that given the
>number of messages posted about the -e restriction, others did too.

For what it's worth, this is also what happened to me.  I tuned out
the '-e' thread once I had said my two-bits on the topic (and I was
pretty sure the end result would come out OK with me).  I did not
notice the topic of also removing argv from 'ps'.

Removing 'ps -e' ability is fine by me (though I'd prefer that I
could see the environment of "my own" processes).  I can see how
that would improve security, even if it occasionally means a very
slight loss in user convenience.

I am not at all happy with the idea of removing argv from 'ps'
listings.  I have scripts which use that information, and it
sounds like the only way to fix those scripts would make things
WORSE for security.  This does not benefit "user convenience"
and it does not benefit "security".

At the same time, I remember many years ago when another OS that
I worked on was trying for security classification.  I can see
that this behavior *could* be a good idea for situations which
want to be really paranoid about security.  I would not mind
this behavior as a system-wide option, but I'd certainly want
the default setting to match current behavior.


---
Garance Alistair Drosehn           =   gad@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer          or  drosih@rpi.edu
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute


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